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[Covenanted Reformation] Re: John Knox and "The Most Perfect School of Christ" (Q)

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  • nocost2great
    ... AND you will find that the only time they are used in the OT during *worship* it is along with the other shadows such as sacrifices. I am sure some of the
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 1, 2002
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      --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "Taylor, Judson" <judson@f...>
      wrote:
      > I think because the NT doesn't refer to instruments in any way.
      >
      > I THINK that is the logic.
      >
      AND you will find that the only time they are used in the OT during
      *worship* it is along with the other shadows such as sacrifices.
      I am sure some of the guys can chime in and offer a more detailed
      explanation. Songs of Zion by Michael Bushell is a good book on the
      subject.

      Dee Dee

      ps Dejay, is your name Dee Dee too?
    • John Felso
      Singing about worshipping God with instruments in Psalm 150 is similar to singing about binding a sacrifice to the horns of the alter in Psalm 118. Both are
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 1, 2002
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        Singing about worshipping God with instruments in Psalm 150 is similar to
        singing about binding a sacrifice to the horns of the alter in Psalm 118.
        Both are weak and beggerly elements of the OT ceremonial system which have
        been fulfulled in Christ. To borrow either of those things from the old
        dispensation is to "bury the light of the gospel" as Calvin would say.

        It's important to remember that the entire ceremonial system of the OT,
        which was but a shadow, has been set aside now that the reality to which it
        pointed has come. Therefore, we need not have any NT passages which
        explicitly ban musical instruments. There mere fact that we are not
        commanded in the NT to use instruments is sufficient.

        You can find more here:

        http://www.swrb.com/newslett/FREEBOOK/RefWorsh.htm

        Hope this helps.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "seamrog1935" <wh.roberts@...>
        To: <covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 5:12 PM
        Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: John Knox and "The Most Perfect School
        of Christ" (Q)


        > "Musical instruments in celebrating the praise of God would be no
        > more suitable than the burning of incense, the lighting up of lamps,
        > the restoration of the other shadows of the law. The Papists,
        > therefore, have foolishly borrowed this, as well as many other
        > things, from the Jews." (Calvin's Commentary on Psalm 33).
        >
        > How does that reconcile with Psalm 150? I don't quite follow banning
        > instruments.
        >
        > Patrick
        >
        >
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      • Cheryl
        Dear Patrick, It doesn t make sense unless you realize that instruments were part of the temple worship and automatically passed away with the rest of temple
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 1, 2002
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          Dear Patrick,
           
          It doesn't make sense unless you realize that instruments were part of the temple worship and automatically passed away with the rest of temple ceremonies like sacrifices, shew bread, etc., when the New Covenant was put in place.  We still sing of these things, but we would no more use an instrument any more than we would offer a burnt sacrifice.
           
          I think part of the confusion about instruments lies in the fact that many of us were raised with them and just assume that they are a lawful form of worship.  However, if you go back and look at the history of their use in the OT, they were never used until introduced under David, and then only by the Lord's command, as confirmed in the mouth of two witnesses. II Chron. 29:25 -- "And he stationed the Levites in the house of the LORD with cymbals, with stringed instruments, and with harps, according to the commandment of David, of Gad the king's seer, and of Nathan the prophet; for thus was the commandment of the LORD by his prophets."
           
          The actual amount of time when instruments were used in worship is quite short -- From the time of David until Calvary.  Thus, Calvin's conclusion is that to use the instruments in worship is to be involved in Judaizing.
           
          Cheryl
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 2:12 PM
          Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: John Knox and "The Most Perfect School of Christ" (Q)

          "Musical instruments in celebrating the praise of God would be no
          more suitable than the burning of incense, the lighting up of lamps,
          the restoration of the other shadows of the law. The Papists,
          therefore, have foolishly borrowed this, as well as many other
          things, from the Jews." (Calvin's Commentary on Psalm 33).

          How does that reconcile with Psalm 150?  I don't quite follow banning
          instruments.

          Patrick



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        • thebishopsdoom
          ... No. That s not correct. That is not the logic behind the determination of instruments to have been a part of the ceremonial law, and secondly, it is not
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 1, 2002
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            --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "Taylor, Judson" <judson@f...>
            wrote:
            > I think because the NT doesn't refer to instruments in any way.
            >
            > I THINK that is the logic.
            No. That's not correct. That is not the logic behind the
            determination of instruments to have been a part of the ceremonial
            law, and secondly, it is not true that instruments are not referred
            to in the NT. I guess I'd resuggest the link I last posted for a
            better understanding of at least some of the issues involved in why
            most churches used to determine that the instruments were a part of
            the ceremonial law.
            -thebishopsdoom
          • thebishopsdoom
            ... OT, they were never used until introduced under David That would not be correct. For example, musical instruments were introduced into the worship service
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 2, 2002
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              --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "Cheryl" <cheryl@g...> wrote:
              >However, if you go back and look at the history of their use in the
              OT, they were never used until introduced under David

              That would not be correct.
              For example, musical instruments were introduced into the worship
              service of the tabernacle in Numbers 10:10.
              I guess I'd resuggest the link I previously resuggested.
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