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  • knoxknoxwhosthere
    Dear Jerry or John, I think I was reading somewhere that the 200 or so men who had been incarcerated in Greyfriars and were being transported for being
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 25, 2002
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      Dear Jerry or John,

      I think I was reading somewhere that the 200 or so men who had been
      incarcerated in Greyfriars and were being transported for being
      Covenanters were those who had been convinced to compromise their
      principles by certain ministers. These men were shipwrecked and
      drowned. Am I remembering this correctly?

      Jerry, good idea to do a history of Covenanters in Scotland. I think
      it would be helpful to just touch on the highlights of social
      covenanting in Scripture or at least point out some articles that
      deal with it so people can see where the principle for it comes
      from. I find that many people, even in the Reformed camp are
      ignorant of this.

      BTW, after reading of the history of the Covenanters, it became
      easier to understand the clearing of the Highlands and the butchery
      of Cumberland after the Jacobite uprising as a visitation of
      judgement on Scotland for retreating from the Covenants. Unto whom
      much is given...

      Cheryl
    • Jasper Wall
      Just a note that I for one appreciate the effort in assembling and posting info on covenanting. This will be useful in learning. Jasper knoxknoxwhosthere
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 26, 2002
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        Just a note that I for one appreciate the effort in assembling and posting info on covenanting. This will be useful in learning.

        Jasper

         knoxknoxwhosthere wrote:

        Dear Jerry or John,

        I think I was reading somewhere that the 200 or so men who had been
        incarcerated in Greyfriars and were being transported for being
        Covenanters were those who had been convinced to compromise their
        principles by certain ministers.  These men were shipwrecked and
        drowned.  Am I remembering this correctly?

        Jerry, good idea to do a history of Covenanters in Scotland.  I think
        it would be helpful to just touch on the highlights of social
        covenanting in Scripture or at least point out some articles that
        deal with it so people can see where the principle for it comes
        from.  I find that many people, even in the Reformed camp are
        ignorant of this.

        BTW, after reading of the history of the Covenanters, it became
        easier to understand the clearing of the Highlands and the butchery
        of Cumberland after the Jacobite uprising as a visitation of
        judgement on Scotland for retreating from the Covenants.  Unto whom
        much is given...

        Cheryl


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      • raging_calvinist
        Hi Cheryl, You have (another) beautiful baby! Cloud of Witnesses lists 200 men who drowned in a shipwreck (I believe this is the list that bro. John has up on
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 27, 2002
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          Hi Cheryl,

          You have (another) beautiful baby!

          Cloud of Witnesses lists 200 men who drowned in a shipwreck (I
          believe this is the list that bro. John has up on the link Mrs. Soles
          provided). If this is the wreck you're talking about, I was unaware
          that they may have been convinced to compromise. If you eventually
          track down that info, let us know. Are you getting at the idea that
          God busting out the rod on them?

          You are correct, there needs to be some posts dealing with the
          biblical basis for covenanting. I will, Lord willing, incorporate
          some of that when the time comes into the current series of posts I'm
          working on, and I will also get together an Ordinance of Covenanting
          folder in the Bookmarks section. K?

          gmw.

          --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., knoxknoxwhosthere
          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > Dear Jerry or John,
          >
          > I think I was reading somewhere that the 200 or so men who had been
          > incarcerated in Greyfriars and were being transported for being
          > Covenanters were those who had been convinced to compromise their
          > principles by certain ministers. These men were shipwrecked and
          > drowned. Am I remembering this correctly?
          >
          > Jerry, good idea to do a history of Covenanters in Scotland. I
          think
          > it would be helpful to just touch on the highlights of social
          > covenanting in Scripture or at least point out some articles that
          > deal with it so people can see where the principle for it comes
          > from. I find that many people, even in the Reformed camp are
          > ignorant of this.
          >
          > BTW, after reading of the history of the Covenanters, it became
          > easier to understand the clearing of the Highlands and the butchery
          > of Cumberland after the Jacobite uprising as a visitation of
          > judgement on Scotland for retreating from the Covenants. Unto whom
          > much is given...
          >
          > Cheryl
        • thebishopsdoom
          ... The ship in question was the Crown, which sunk off Orkney, carrying prisoners from the battle of Bothwell Bridge. As to the question of compromise: Act,
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 27, 2002
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            --- In covenantedreformationclub@y..., "raging_calvinist"
            <ragingcalvinist@c...> wrote:
            >If this is the wreck you're talking about, I was unaware
            > that they may have been convinced to compromise. If you eventually
            > track down that info, let us know.
            The ship in question was the Crown, which sunk off Orkney, carrying
            prisoners from the battle of Bothwell Bridge.
            As to the question of compromise:
            Act, Declaration, and Testimony for the Whole of our Covenanted
            Reformation (as I found it quoted in another document, I presume the
            wording is correct to the original but didn't check the original):
            "It was the land's sin that they continued still to own the
            authority
            of Charles II., when opposite to, and destructive of religion and
            liberty: and of those who appeared in arms at Pentland and Bothwell
            Bridge, that they put in his interest (with application of the words
            of the Covenant to him, though stated in opposition to it) into the
            state of the quarrel, in their declaration of war, for which, (so far
            as the godly could discern,) the Lord put them to shame and went not
            forth with their armies."
            Secondly, a division was laid out at Bothwell bridge over those who
            had taken the indulgences and not repented of it. Many of those
            killed or captured were of the indulged or who agreed the indulgence
            was ok. This division was never healed among them, thoug the
            societies (who were against the indulgences) charitably reckoned the
            indulged as still "fellow" persecuted Christians (as evidenced from
            the willingness to include the list of all those on the Crown as
            martyrs for Christ, though some indeed were compromised by the
            indulgence), though unwilling to agree with some of the compromise
            they made in accepting the indulgences, which were seen by the
            societies as compromising the very principles for which these "fellow
            sufferers" were continuing to be killed and seen by the societies as
            something that needed to continue to be boldly and strongly testified
            against as a defection.
            I believe that is the info you were looking for.
            -thebishopsdoom
          • redleg1423
            What are the principles of the Covenanted Reformation in this day in America? How are they acted upon by a church/denomination? What does it mean to be a
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 12, 2012
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              What are the principles of the Covenanted Reformation in this day in America? How are they acted upon by a church/denomination?

              What does it mean to be a "Covenanter" today?

              Thank you
            • Glenn Ferrell
              Depends upon whether one regards the US as post-covenant (living under a broken covenant) or pre-covenant (obligated to enter into a covenant; but not liable
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 21, 2012
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                Depends upon whether one regards the US as post-covenant (living under a broken covenant) or pre-covenant (obligated to enter into a covenant; but  not liable to one formerly accepted.

                Glenn


                J. Glenn Ferrell, Pastor, First Orthodox Presbyterian Church of San Francisco.
                Worship each Lord's Day (Sunday) at 11 AM & 5 PM; 1350 Lawton Street, SF.
                http://www.sermonaudio.com/source_detail.asp?sourceid=sfopc
                http://sfopc.org

                 



                To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                From: vmcoaklr2@...
                Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 00:26:25 +0000
                Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] question

                 
                What are the principles of the Covenanted Reformation in this day in America? How are they acted upon by a church/denomination?

                What does it mean to be a "Covenanter" today?

                Thank you


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