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Re: Double Predestination

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  • thebishopsdoom
    You may find the following URL helpful:
    Message 1 of 734 , Jul 4 11:04 AM
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      You may find the following URL
      helpful:<br><a href=http://members.aol.com/Graceordained/twisse.html target=new>http://members.aol.com/Graceordained/twisse.html</a><br>The debate raged in the middle ages. This should not
      be confused with the medieval debate over supra vs
      infralapsarianism. Here are some quotes from to the double
      predestination debate:<br>Isidore of Seville (7th Cent.): "There
      is a double predestination, whether of the elect to
      rest or of the damned to death. Both are caused by
      divine judgment." (Sent. 2.6.1. SPE 2:314) (He also
      stated that there are "those who now seem to be elect
      and holy" but who will be damned, because the gift of
      grace is granted "solely to the elect," the rest
      "predestined to punishment" [Sent. 1.29.7; 2.5.6; Diff.
      2.32.117-118.])<br>Gottshalk (9th Cent.): "Why did the Lord say to the Jews:
      'You do not believe, because you are not of my sheep,'
      if not because He saw them as having been
      predestined to eternal death, not as having been purchased
      for eternal life at the price of his
      blood."<br>Remigius (9th Century): "Secondly, no one who faithfully
      believes and acknowledges divine predestination to each
      lot, that is, of the elect and of the reprobate,
      endeavors to prove that the Truth himself is deceptive, but
      rather is absolutely true and trustworthy in all his
      words and holy in all his works, because to the elect,
      he has foreordained, he promises and assigns the
      reward of everlasting life. On the other hand, to sinful
      and impenitent reprobates, he repays everlasting
      punishments, to his own just decree as he has foreordained.
      Thirdly, the truth of divine predestination does not
      proclaim a just judge to be unjust, since according to it
      rewards are returned to those who do good and continue in
      good, and torments are inflicted upon those who do evil
      and remain in evil. Fourthly, no necessity of his own
      predestination renders the Redeemer of the world unable by the
      glorious worth of his own blood to come to the aid of
      those who believe and hope in him, for by that price he
      forever comes to the aid of all his elect. Because he
      does not come to the aid of the reprobate, they
      through their own evil and unrighteousness spurn his
      price. Even if he can save them, he nevertheless wishes
      by a just vengeance to condemn some for the purpose
      of showing forth the terror of his sternness...
      Sixthly, this foreordination does not favor the devil
      rather than God, since it daily compells the devil to
      lose those whom divine grace by the same
      foreordination has decreed to everlasting salvation...
      Seventhly, faith in this predestination does not drive
      anyone into the supposition that he can not be rescued
      from the fall of the first parent, from the guilt of
      his own enormities, and from the power of the enemy
      through faith in Christ and the sacrament of baptism....
      The predestination of their Creator (namely, God) is
      not harmful to the reprobate, that is, the
      predestination which most justly punishes their persistent and
      untameable wickedness. Crushed by the weight of that
      wickedness and by its very grievous burden, they are plunged
      into Tartarus, falling into the abyss like a stone,
      drowning in the raging waters like lead." (Reply to the
      Three Letters.) <br>Ratramnus (9th Century): "those
      whom he [God] is going to condemn to punishment he has
      already condemned in predestination." (Praed. 2. MPL
      121:68) <br>Thomas Bradwardine (14th Cent.): "And just as
      he [Joachim of Flora, d. 1202] was an Arian in
      Trinitarian doctrine he was a Pelagian in attributing the
      original cause of predestination and reprobation, not to
      the God who predestines and reprobates but to man's
      own capacity and to the actions of the men
      predestined or reprobated, as indicated above." (The Cause of
      God Against the Pelagians.)<br>Gregory of Rimini
      (14th Century): "just as God predestined eternally whom
      he willed and did not this because of some future
      merits of theirs, so also he eternally reprobated those
      whom he willed, not because of their futur
    • almo_no1
      prayers are easy gmw, you ve got em.
      Message 734 of 734 , Sep 18, 2001
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        prayers are easy gmw, you've got 'em.
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