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Re: The Lord's Supper, the Biblical (&Scottish) way

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  • PuritanoPresbiteriano
    Hey Parnell! Yeah, you got me there! I have no answer for you but that those two extra days are not done here in the US. My personal opinion - a casualty of
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 5, 2010
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      Hey Parnell!

      Yeah, you got me there! I have no answer for you but that those two
      extra days are not done here in the US. My personal opinion - a casualty
      of the modern work week! But, those extra days are more indifferent,
      no? The manner of the sitting at table, with wine, common cup, and etc,
      I think is not.

      What sayest thou, my good friend?

      Stay warm in G.R.!

      Your brother,

      Edgar


      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "puritanone"
      <joseph.mccarter@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com,
      "PuritanoPresbiteriano" puritanpresbyterian@ wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Yeah, I know, I will get some upset replies for the subject line.
      Look
      > > at it as an attention grabber.
      > >
      >
      > Hi Edgar,
      >
      > The Scottish way?
      >
      > I was thinking you would describe these services-
      >
      > "services usually held from Thursday to Monday. The themes of these
      services is as follows:
      >
      > * Thursday: Confession of sin
      > * Friday: Evidences of grace
      > * Saturday: Preparation for the Table
      > * Sunday: Administration of Lord's Supper
      > * Sunday (evening): evangelistic service
      > * Monday: Thanksgiving"
      >
      > And I thought you would mention communion tokens.
      >
      > But you did not.
      >
      > - J. Parnell McCarter
      >
    • PuritanoPresbiteriano
      Parnell, Now that I think about it a bit more...would not the days you mention before & after the Supper be properly called the Communion Season? Whereas I was
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 5, 2010
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        Parnell,

        Now that I think about it a bit more...would not the days you mention before & after the Supper be properly called the Communion Season? Whereas I was describing the Lord's Supper itself and not the Season.

        Just wondering.



        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "PuritanoPresbiteriano" <puritanpresbyterian@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hey Parnell!
        >
        > Yeah, you got me there! I have no answer for you but that those two
        > extra days are not done here in the US. My personal opinion - a casualty
        > of the modern work week! But, those extra days are more indifferent,
        > no? The manner of the sitting at table, with wine, common cup, and etc,
        > I think is not.
        >
        > What sayest thou, my good friend?
        >
        > Stay warm in G.R.!
        >
        > Your brother,
        >
        > Edgar
        >
        >
        > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "puritanone"
        > <joseph.mccarter@> wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com,
        > "PuritanoPresbiteriano" puritanpresbyterian@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Yeah, I know, I will get some upset replies for the subject line.
        > Look
        > > > at it as an attention grabber.
        > > >
        > >
        > > Hi Edgar,
        > >
        > > The Scottish way?
        > >
        > > I was thinking you would describe these services-
        > >
        > > "services usually held from Thursday to Monday. The themes of these
        > services is as follows:
        > >
        > > * Thursday: Confession of sin
        > > * Friday: Evidences of grace
        > > * Saturday: Preparation for the Table
        > > * Sunday: Administration of Lord's Supper
        > > * Sunday (evening): evangelistic service
        > > * Monday: Thanksgiving"
        > >
        > > And I thought you would mention communion tokens.
        > >
        > > But you did not.
        > >
        > > - J. Parnell McCarter
        > >
        >
      • PuritanoPresbiteriano
        Dear Pearl, My intent was to invite people to Church that happen to live in the DC Metro area. Not sure how you read into it more than that? Not sure what you
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 5, 2010
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          Dear Pearl,

          My intent was to invite people to Church that happen to live in the DC Metro area. Not sure how you read into it more than that? Not sure what you meant by all that you wrote, honestly sounds a bit disjointed.

          Also I am not very sure who you are for me to determine or cipher your sentence: "About the time of that post, you and I were on the conflicting sides of what they perceived as the schism within the schismatics."

          If anyone was wounded more by the "infighting" it was the Christian brethren that were unlawfully, unbiblically, and "unpresbyterianly" excommunicated. They had a ZERO foundation or warrant to excommunicate the, what?, 28 or 30 people out of 80 members that they did.  To show how ludicrous they were in their actions, they even excommunicated people that were not even communicant members...what kind of madness was that?

          They overturned the very Standards, that THEY as Church officers swore and asked members to swear (in order to come to the Table) to maintain and uphold.  They shredded the documents by their actions and acted worse than non-Presbyterians in their polity!  Their actions betrayed their hypocrisy and proved what they really thought of the Standards; that they were there only to serve them and use it to lord it over Christ's flock. Instead of being servants and ministers they thought to become bullies and tyrants.

          They have even divided amongst themselves now. I saw (on their web page) that they are now one elder short.  Besides, the ones that still cling to them, in their vain cries for our repentance to remove our so-called and fallacious excommunication, is well, blah! They are no court, nor were a court, so who will acquit us in their little world?  No one, so those that still cling to the men might as well not ask us to do so.  Damage done already, for many in ways so much more profound.  To me it is as if some Papist were to ask me to come back to Rome.  Yeah, right buddy!

          I am happy for those that have found solace and peace in the OPC, RPCNA, URCNA, and etc. I am sadden and heartbroken for those that have rejected Christ or have departed from the faith.

          Yeah, I said it.

          For those that still follow men, here is a suggestion, don't.

          Follow the Word of God and reject the dross.

          In Christ's comfort,

          Edgar

          As the proxy elder/whip once called me, "the brave Marine".

          --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Pearl" <pearl4dc@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "PuritanoPresbiteriano" puritanpresbyterian@ wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Yeah, I know, I will get some upset replies for the subject line. Look
          > > at it as an attention grabber.
          > >
          > > If you live in the Washington DC Metro area, the Westminster
          > > Presbyterian Church of the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing) is
          > > having the Lord's Supper Jan. 10th with a prepatory service Jan. 9th at
          > > 6 pm. The Sabbath services are at 2pm, then a meal, then the 6pm
          > > service. The Lord's Supper will be administered during the 2pm service.
          > >
          > > If you come and want to come to the Table, it is necessary to meet with
          > > the minster for a brief interview as we do fence the Table, before the
          > > 2pm service.
          > >
          > > The Lord's Supper is conducted the Biblical way as is and has been done
          > > in Scotland. We all come to a real Table and sit around it. The minister
          > > gives a mini sermon (naturally after the regular sermon) on the
          > > elements. The wine is real fermented wine. We use a common cup.
          > >
          > > Here are the directions, times, & ph# if you want to get further info.
          > >
          > > http://www.westminsterconfession.org/congregations/washington/times-loca\
          > > tion.php
          > > <http://www.westminsterconfession.org/congregations/washington/times-loc\
          > > ation.php>
          > >
          > > In Christ,
          > >
          > > Edgar Ibarra
          > >
          >
          >
          > Whose attention are you trying to grab Sir? And for what purpose? If you are looking to open a sincere dialog between like minded brethren this hardly seems to be the right format. It appears quite evident that this 'Clubs' purpose has become very diversified. It no longer retains its original intent: to bring like minded brethren to greater unity of mind during a time of hoped for reformation.
          >
          > In my computer travels, I read a post on the Puritan Board about the 'schismatics' of the more visible church (you and I once qualified by their definition to be named among them). The post implied that 'their at times valid points on needed reform' were wounded by our infighting. About the time of that post, you and I were on the conflicting sides of what they perceived as the schism within the schismatics.
          >
          > Sir, for that reason what I am looking for is society (preferably not on a computer) with like minded believers in a setting where,"ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen".
          >
          > My reading the Lord's Day of 12-27-09 was from Mr. Calvin on this text and though it was very helpful I still struggle with its application to the present state of disunion.
          >
          > Among a people truly penitent and humbled for sin, godly sorrow should be demonstrated (2 Cor. 7:10-11) for the sin that so easily besets us. It seems to me it would be evidenced not by knowledge that puffs up but love that edifies. We could then begin to pray with a unity of rule and mind as Paul holds out by way of example to: 'press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.'
          >
          >
          > This I believe is the same perfection or maturity that James speaks of in chapter 1:1
          >
          > "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. 2My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; 3Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. 4But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing."
          >
          >
          > For two or more to pray with the Spirit of grace and supplication; it is necessary that we are not grieving Him and the great difficulty we have in our present state of disunity is no true Presbyterian Government and discipline. According to the Scripture in Ephesians 4 that is one Church (no longer under one nation as before under the law - (Ephesians 2:13-22) coming to the unity of the faith using the gifts and graces of pastors and teachers to accomplish that end and able to use the keys of Christ's kingdom on earth (as it is in heaven), when other efforts for reconciliation (Matt.18:15-18) have failed. The heresies and schisms that presently affect the visible church, greatly hinders our ability to resolve true offenses (sins) against Christ's commandments and his members. Unless this is addressed with true humility and repentance demonstrated by godly sorrow how can we pray together with one mind for that church and kingdom whereof we are members, that therein God would establish peace and truth, the purity of his ordinances, the power of godliness; prevent and remove heresy, schism, profaneness,superstition, security, and unfruitfulness under the means of grace; heal all our rents and divisions, and preserve us from breach of our Solemn Covenant." The need of the hour is very great. The discouragements are endless.
          >
          >
          > The merciful and patient Lord did kindly minister to me in my fainting fit yesterday rekindling hope after reading Mr. Durham's Commentary on The Revelation pp, 621-623 looking at his 10 reasons why the glory of God alone will be the issue of our present sad state and He will bring it to pass in preserving his elect by His almighty power, cleansing their sins in the blood of the Lamb and (hardening others as he did Pharaoh, according to Mr. Durham, and Paul in(2 Thessalonians 2:10-11) See Mr Manton's sermon on this text it is very helpful,
          >
          >
          > It is the 6th Term of Communion, of the RP Terms of Communion, in my own life where the battle rages the hottest, and that battle is between the flesh and spirit and in the presence of those souls that are the dearest to me on earth, those of my family. I often meditate on the Lord's question and his answer to it, as well as the context of it in Mark 3:22-35 and WCF Chapter 25; 2.
          >
          >
          > I will say again the need for prayer dependent upon the Spirit of grace and supplication is the need of the hour. (Zechariah 12:9-13)
          >
          >
          > Praise ye the Lord. O give thanks unto the Lord ; for He is good. Psalm 106:1
          >
        • puritanone
          ... Edgar, I would not disagree with you, which is why in my earlier post I focused on the *Scottish* way, and did not insist it was the one and only Biblical
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 6, 2010
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            > Yeah, you got me there! I have no answer for you but that those two
            > extra days are not done here in the US. My personal opinion - a casualty
            > of the modern work week! But, those extra days are more indifferent,
            > no? The manner of the sitting at table, with wine, common cup, and etc,
            > I think is not.
            >
            > What sayest thou, my good friend?
            >

            Edgar, I would not disagree with you, which is why in my earlier post I focused on the *Scottish* way, and did not insist it was the one and only Biblical way. Since you had mentioned the previous day's preparatory service, I thought you were considering the whole communion season.

            All of that being said, it does not speak well of America when things are pared down for an American audience, because we are too "busy". I would like to see that tendency resisted.


            - J. Parnell McCarter
          • PuritanoPresbiteriano
            Parnell, It was the case in Geneva and elsewhere that there were worship services every day in the early morning. I think that Capitalism, but more so the
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 6, 2010
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              Parnell,

              It was the case in Geneva and elsewhere that there were worship services every day in the early morning.  I think that Capitalism, but more so the Industrial revolution, with the advent of electricity, has caused our societies to extend the workday to such an extent that worship services more commonly come in at least two options (being squeezed out by the work schedule):

              1. One service in the AM (with its own options -traditional, contemporary, & fill in the blank)
              or
              2. Come Saturday evening if you can't make it Sunday morning.

              These are more common in non-conservative Presbyterian circles.

              In our circles, 2 worship services on the Lord's Day is the most one will get during the week, and maybe a mid-week PM low attended prayer meeting/Bible study.

              It truly is lamentable.  I am grateful to God for our congregation in that we have 2 services on the Lord's Day & a third one during the time of Communion.

              I agree, I too would like that tendency resisted.  I think it begins with good ecclesiastical leadership, teaching, and motivation (Biblically speaking) combined with consistent family worship.  If most families barely can have family worship nowadays, less so will the attendance be in the congregation if offered multiply times a week. 

              Edgar

              --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "puritanone" <joseph.mccarter@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > > Yeah, you got me there! I have no answer for you but that those two
              > > extra days are not done here in the US. My personal opinion - a casualty
              > > of the modern work week! But, those extra days are more indifferent,
              > > no? The manner of the sitting at table, with wine, common cup, and etc,
              > > I think is not.
              > >
              > > What sayest thou, my good friend?
              > >
              >
              > Edgar, I would not disagree with you, which is why in my earlier post I focused on the *Scottish* way, and did not insist it was the one and only Biblical way. Since you had mentioned the previous day's preparatory service, I thought you were considering the whole communion season.
              >
              > All of that being said, it does not speak well of America when things are pared down for an American audience, because we are too "busy". I would like to see that tendency resisted.
              >
              >
              > - J. Parnell McCarter
              >
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