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[Covenanted Reformation] Re: the Covenanted Reformation

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  • christabella.warren
    ... I ve got to agree with you there -- in fact, the Puritans often had to fight against the Scottish Covenanters back in Old England during the English Civil
    Message 1 of 26 , Dec 10, 2009
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      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Larry Bump <lbump@...> wrote:
      > And I continue to assert that as Crown Colonies the Americas were not
      > part of the Three Kingdoms and were never bound to either.
      > That is their proper legal position, and the basis for the Declaration
      > of Independence. Their king had not defended them against a foreign
      > power (parliament)and so had effectively abdicated.
      >
      > Most of the early settlers came here to get out from under the authority
      > of Parliament; remember? That's the only reason for the Pilgrims and
      > Puritans (not to mention the Baptists and Papists) to come here.
      >

      I've got to agree with you there -- in fact, the Puritans often had to fight against the Scottish Covenanters back in Old England during the English Civil War in order to preserve their freedoms against a would-be tyrannical Presbyterian state.
    • Larry Bump
      ... I have admitted, and continue to admit, that the tone of my reply was driven by past interactions with neo/paleo-Steelietes far less gracious and loving
      Message 2 of 26 , Dec 10, 2009
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        raging_calvinist wrote:
        > Larry,
        > The original poster provided a heart-felt expression of her understanding of the Solemn League and Covenant, aided by a recently read sermon by a Covenanter minister. She didn't attack anyone, did she?
        >

        I have admitted, and continue to admit, that the tone of my reply was
        driven by past interactions with neo/paleo-Steelietes far less gracious
        and loving than yourself.
        What I did not say explicitly, and should have, is that I did indeed
        treat the original poster unfairly. As I re-read my original post I was
        shamed by my treatment of her and would like to apologize for that.
        I could easily have made my points just as well with a better attitude
        and not by imputing others' past sin to the poster.

        It is a sad tendency of the human heart to seek to continue justifying
        itself when it should know better.. I committed that sin today.
        I did not examine my behavior closely enough when first called to
        account, and apologize to the list for that as well.

        Larry
      • Jerry
        I, for one, appreciate this, Larry. Thank you! gmw.
        Message 3 of 26 , Dec 10, 2009
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          I, for one, appreciate this, Larry.

          Thank you!

          gmw.

          Larry Bump wrote:
           

          raging_calvinist wrote:
          > Larry,
          > The original poster provided a heart-felt expression of her understanding of the Solemn League and Covenant, aided by a recently read sermon by a Covenanter minister. She didn't attack anyone, did she?
          >

          I have admitted, and continue to admit, that the tone of my reply was
          driven by past interactions with neo/paleo-Steeliete s far less gracious
          and loving than yourself.
          What I did not say explicitly, and should have, is that I did indeed
          treat the original poster unfairly. As I re-read my original post I was
          shamed by my treatment of her and would like to apologize for that.
          I could easily have made my points just as well with a better attitude
          and not by imputing others' past sin to the poster.

          It is a sad tendency of the human heart to seek to continue justifying
          itself when it should know better.. I committed that sin today.
          I did not examine my behavior closely enough when first called to
          account, and apologize to the list for that as well.

          Larry


        • Kevin Guillory
          Would that I, and others, were as open and honest as you as we would acknowledge our own sins and shortcomings. Thank you very much for this. Kevin
          Message 4 of 26 , Dec 10, 2009
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            Would that I, and others, were as open and honest as you as we would acknowledge our own sins and shortcomings.

            Thank you very much for this.

            Kevin


            On 12/10/2009 7:14 PM, Larry Bump wrote:
             

            raging_calvinist wrote:
            > Larry,
            > The original poster provided a heart-felt expression of her understanding of the Solemn League and Covenant, aided by a recently read sermon by a Covenanter minister. She didn't attack anyone, did she?
            >

            I have admitted, and continue to admit, that the tone of my reply was
            driven by past interactions with neo/paleo-Steeliete s far less gracious
            and loving than yourself.
            What I did not say explicitly, and should have, is that I did indeed
            treat the original poster unfairly. As I re-read my original post I was
            shamed by my treatment of her and would like to apologize for that.
            I could easily have made my points just as well with a better attitude
            and not by imputing others' past sin to the poster.

            It is a sad tendency of the human heart to seek to continue justifying
            itself when it should know better.. I committed that sin today.
            I did not examine my behavior closely enough when first called to
            account, and apologize to the list for that as well.

            Larry


          • Pearl
            ... and uniformity in religion, Confession of Faith, Form of Church Government, Directory for Worship and Catechizing. ... Reformed Churches in this nation are
            Message 5 of 26 , Dec 10, 2009
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              --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Larry Bump <lbump@...>
              wrote:
              >
              >
              > >> 4. To endeavor to bring the 3 Kingdoms to the nearest conjunction
              and uniformity in religion, Confession of Faith, Form of Church
              Government, Directory for Worship and Catechizing.
              > >> (as a former plantation of Great Britain all Westminster accepting
              Reformed Churches in this nation are bound to our fathers covenants as
              their spiritual posterity and their visible representation as I
              understand it)
              > >>
              >
              >
              >
              > Great Britain was not a signatory to the Solemn League and Covenant.
              > England, Ireland and Scotland were.
              > There is a difference, and if you don't know what that was, you have
              no
              > business posting to this question.
              >
              >
              >
              Mr. Bump, in response to your inquiry I would thank you for correcting
              my misspeaking, if indeed I did. Which is possible. Please consider
              that I do fallibly understand what the Solemn League and Covenant is and
              that there were representatives of three nations that signed it. My
              understanding is that James the 6th of Scotland, became James the 1st of
              the 3 Kingdoms. He was a Stewart monarch bound by the National Covenant
              of Scotland and his son Charles the1st, bound by his father's covenant
              (National Covenant of Scotland) was then presiding over the 3 Kingdoms
              of Scotland, England and Ireland when they swore the Solemn League and
              Covenant renewing the covenant obligations of Scotland, and stating as
              the then chief magistrate of the United Kingdoms the additional
              obligation of the Solemn League and Covenant that now bound England and
              Ireland as well as Scotland in a continued purpose of establishing the
              true reformed religion among the nations on earth by a uniformity in
              doctrine, worship, government and discipline that the Lord's people
              would be one and his name one. In my fallible mind, I thought when I
              wrote 'Great Britain' I was referring to 3 distinct nations under one
              sovereign more accurately stated the United Kingdom(s).

              In the best interest of the three kingdoms the Westminster Assembly
              labored for that uniformity to be well defined. The Directory for
              Public Worship was penned at that time which encourages the national
              churches that one of the petitions to be included in Public pastoral
              prayer should be petitions for our plantations, because the nations were
              now under the obligation of uniformity in the true reformed religion
              which was but briefly professed by the house of Stewart (magistracy) and
              by many Independents, and Sectarians (representative Ministry at
              Westminster) many of whom contrary to their covenants joined the
              malignant party against their brethren, within a few short years. Three
              kingdoms as kingdoms who were under one monarch and one Church under one
              head the Lord Jesus Christ retaining their national identities as
              kingdoms raised their hand to Almighty God in an act of solemn worship
              and vowed on behalf of themselves and their posterity to support one
              another (ministry and magistracy, the king and his people, the ministry
              and those under their charge each in their place, calling and station)
              in a true work of Reformation thus binding themselves to God and one
              another. But the times and season are in the hands of our Sovereign
              Omnipotent God. If the magistrate had kept his part of the Covenant
              within his sphere, and the people theirs, the ministry their part and
              those under their charge, theirs, it would not have been said of the few
              that remained faithful in their places calling and stations those who
              both vowed and paid "When they were about to have finished their
              testimony the beast that ascended out of the bottomless pit shall make
              war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them." (Rev. 11:7)
              as was evidenced during the killing times in Scotland and further
              elucidated by Alexander Peden to an Irish brother before his death in
              historical testimony recorded for posterity. The Directory for Public
              Worship, an integral part of our Confession of Faith, states in the
              section entitled 'Of Publick Prayer before the Sermon'..."To pray for
              the propagation of the gospel and the kingdom of Christ to all nations;
              for the conversion of the Jews, the fullness of the Gentiles, the fall
              of Antichrist, the hastening of the second coming of our Lord; for
              deliverance for the distressed churches abroad from the tyranny of the
              anti christian faction, and from the cruel oppressions and blasphemies
              of the Turk; for the blessing of God upon the Reformed Churches and
              kingdoms of Scotland, England and Ireland now more strictly and
              religiously united in the Solemn National League and Covenant; and for
              'our' plantations in the remote parts of the world: more particularly
              for that church and kingdom whereof we are members, that therein God
              would establish peace and truth, the purity of his ordinances, the power
              of godliness; prevent and remove heresy, schism, profaneness,
              superstition,security, and unfruitfulness under the means of grace; heal
              all our rents and divisions, and preserve us from breach of our Solemn
              Covenant."

              Do you now at least follow my fallible logic? I confess I am most
              probably ignorant of what you are referring to so I cannot comment
              further regarding your accusation. Hopefully now even though you may
              not agree with my fallible logic, you understand my position.
            • Larry Bump
              Pearl wrote: (snip) The point I was making, and unclear, is that the political landscape of the time is very confusing. Yes, England (including Wales) is one
              Message 6 of 26 , Dec 10, 2009
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                Pearl wrote:

                (snip)

                The point I was making, and unclear, is that the political landscape of
                the time is very confusing.

                Yes, England (including Wales) is one of the three kingdoms, along with
                Ireland and Scotland. These three together form the entity call the
                United Kingdoms, or currently designated UKoGBaNI (United Kingdoms of
                Great Britain and Northern Ireland). Scotland, Wales, and England
                together compose Britain, or Great Britain.
                All three of these were under the authority of the King and the
                Parliament. All three of these were (and really still are) parties to
                the Covenants and agreements you mention. These are the Three Kingdoms,
                and the Covenants are limited to *only *these entities.

                But the King of England and Ireland, who at the time was also King of
                Scotland, though this wasn't necessarily so, was also King to many other
                lands that were not part of England, Britain, Great Britain, nor the
                United Kingdoms (Three Kingdoms). These lands were never included in
                the Solemn League and Covenant, were not properly under the authority of
                Parliament (at the time), and cannot be bound by the Covenants unless
                they formally owned them at a later date.
                The King of England was also master of most of India, the American
                colonies, Jamaica, British Honduras, British Colombia, maybe Hong Kong,
                and others. He was an Emperor, and styled himself as such; we just
                don't hear of that anymore, especially in America.
                The privileges and rights of the King were slowly encroached upon by
                Parliament after the Glorious Revolution. The Hanoverian kings were not
                jealous of their rights, and frankly were likely ignorant of the
                difference as well. The imperial holding of the King were taken over by
                a Parliament that decided it was the rightful sovereign and that the
                properties of the King belonged to it. One of the Emperor's kingdoms
                asserted authority over the others, and it was allowed to happen. The
                fact that the Parliament controlled the army may have had something to
                do with it.

                Now, when the Parliament tried to do that with the American colonies the
                lower 13 resisted in what is improperly called a rebellion or
                revolution. Their gripe is that the King should have defended them from
                the Parliament; instead he abetted this foreign government's tyranny.
                That was and is the legal grounds for our independence. The only
                logical outcome of holding the SL&C as applying to the colonies would
                require us to re-join England as subordinate to the King and Parliament
                again.

                The Canadian colonies, as well as semi-independent Newfoundland did own
                the covenants and subordinated themselves to Parliament. The Carribean,
                South American, and African colonies did not own the Covenants, but did
                subordinate themselves. Parliament didn't require the colonies or any
                others to own the covenants. We never did, though some denominations
                have and some only adopted the WCF and subordinate documents.

                The SL&C is a good example, and is the sort of national covenanting that
                ought to occur. But it is applicable only to the Three Kingdoms. The
                political aspects of it make it ridiculous to attempt to apply it
                outside of those three nations.
              • Larry Bump
                ... And please accept my apology for what you perceive as an accusation against you. I was moved by others, and took it out on you in a cruel and unfair
                Message 7 of 26 , Dec 10, 2009
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                  Pearl wrote:
                  > I confess I am most
                  > probably ignorant of what you are referring to so I cannot comment
                  > further regarding your accusation.

                  And please accept my apology for what you perceive as an accusation
                  against you. I was moved by others, and took it out on you in a cruel
                  and unfair fashion.
                  It was wrong of me, and I hope you can forgive me and forget it happened.
                • Connie Blaine
                  you are a fool. the covenanters are a cult. the gospel has nothing to do with politics or worldly nations. the biblical covenant is a will and testament and
                  Message 8 of 26 , Dec 13, 2009
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                    you are a fool. the covenanters are a cult. the gospel has nothing to do with politics or worldly nations. the biblical covenant is a will and testament and Christ is the testator of that will to save those who are written in the book of life. so that the elect would inherit not only eternal life but a new earth and heaven. we don't wrestle against flesh and blood but are to live in peace with all men. ours is not to put down or crusade against false religions. to follow the reformed tradition is no different then catholics following theirs. there is no possibility of correction. sad to say that the reformation ended about 400 years ago. the reformed creeds have many false doctrins in them. for example, we are not justified by our faith but by the faith of Christ. we are justified by his faith and work and not by anything in or through us. (gal.2:16) etc. there is no church that has not perverted the gospel. study your Bible and stop listening to these people. the regulative principle does not exist the way they say. Deut. 12:32 is speaking of adding to the word of God as well as prov.30:6 and rev.22:18 there is nothing in the bible that says you cant celebrate holidays like Christmas. remember, we are to do all things in a God glorifying way. MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERY ONE, james

                    --- On Wed, 12/9/09, christabella.warren <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    From: christabella.warren <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: the Covenanted Reformation
                    To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 7:19 PM

                     



                    --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, pearl4dc <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
                    >
                    > I have for many years kept my distance from this Club for fear of sinning by giving offense or being offended. I speak too much and sin is not absent. I understand too little, for that reason. I am zealous but not always in the right spirit. It takes me years to understand what I said that was so wrong. I joined this month out of a desire for fellowship and edification as a lone scattered sheep. This is my attempt to edify my brethren. This Lord's Day I was reviewing journal and sermon notes and rereading my notes from Mr. John Welwood's sermon on 1 Peter 4:18 from 'Sermons in Times of Persecution' . His was a fearful admonition for some and encouragement for others. Not knowing my own heart I began self examination. What followed these notes were musings on what happened to the visible church as I knew it and then more notes on something that I read, but I cannot remember from where. It was instructive to me and I am sharing from my notes (not an exact copy of what was read) in the hope it will be helpful to someone.
                    >
                    > In our Covenants we swear 6 things:
                    >
                    > 1. We will endeavor to be humbled for our sins and for the sins of the kingdom. (the plantations in the US, Canada and elsewhere were prayerfully petitioned for in the Directory for Public Worship, so I can safely assume we were in their prayers and contendings)
                    >
                    > 2. We will go before one another in an example of real reformation requiring more amendment of life than fighting and disputes.
                    >
                    > 3. We will endeavor to amend our lives and reform not only ourselves but all those that are under our charge.
                    > (this was a concern of Thomas Manton at the beginning of my Westminster Confession of Faith and I fear it has not yet been realized among us)
                    >
                    > 4. To endeavor to bring the 3 Kingdoms to the nearest conjunction and uniformity in religion, Confession of Faith, Form of Church Government, Directory for Worship and Catechizing.
                    > (as a former plantation of Great Britain all Westminster accepting Reformed Churches in this nation are bound to our fathers covenants as their spiritual posterity and their visible representation as I understand it)
                    >
                    > 5. To endeavor the extirpation of Popery, Prelacy, superstition, heresy and schism in our place, calling and station - one cannot contend for a toleration of all religions and keep this oath.
                    >
                    > 6. Against a detestable indifference and neutrality in this cause that so much concerns the glory of God. How many care not for what becomes of the (public) cause of God so that they may have peace and quiet, indifferent as to which contending parties prevail as long as they may have their trading again.
                    >
                    > I believe all true covenanters would do well to consider all these things for they have caused us to be scattered one from another on this dark day and to our own and our families hurt. I encourage each covenanter to prayerfully look each to his own heart as I did to mine. On Monday the Lord was by his gracious spirit already helping me with #1 I have a long way to go.
                    >
                    > May our heavenly Father pity us as children of dust.
                    >

                    Thank you for your heartfelt post -- would that more of the Lord's children were as zealous for His cause!


                  • Kevin Guillory
                    Gosh!  I m a cultist ... and didn t even know it!  Guess all I can do is rejoice in it! :-D Kevin Connie Blaine wrote:   you are a fool. the covenanters are
                    Message 9 of 26 , Dec 13, 2009
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                      Gosh!  I'm a cultist ... and didn't even know it!  Guess all I can do is rejoice in it! :-D

                      Kevin


                      Connie Blaine wrote:
                       

                      you are a fool. the covenanters are a cult. the gospel has nothing to do with politics or worldly nations. the biblical covenant is a will and testament and Christ is the testator of that will to save those who are written in the book of life. so that the elect would inherit not only eternal life but a new earth and heaven. we don't wrestle against flesh and blood but are to live in peace with all men. ours is not to put down or crusade against false religions. to follow the reformed tradition is no different then catholics following theirs. there is no possibility of correction. sad to say that the reformation ended about 400 years ago. the reformed creeds have many false doctrins in them. for example, we are not justified by our faith but by the faith of Christ. we are justified by his faith and work and not by anything in or through us. (gal.2:16) etc. there is no church that has not perverted the gospel. study your Bible and stop listening to these people. the regulative principle does not exist the way they say. Deut. 12:32 is speaking of adding to the word of God as well as prov.30:6 and rev.22:18 there is nothing in the bible that says you cant celebrate holidays like Christmas. remember, we are to do all things in a God glorifying way. MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERY ONE, james

                      --- On Wed, 12/9/09, christabella.warren <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:

                      From: christabella. warren <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com>
                      Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: the Covenanted Reformation
                      To: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
                      Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 7:19 PM

                       



                      --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, pearl4dc <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
                      >
                      > I have for many years kept my distance from this Club for fear of sinning by giving offense or being offended. I speak too much and sin is not absent. I understand too little, for that reason. I am zealous but not always in the right spirit. It takes me years to understand what I said that was so wrong. I joined this month out of a desire for fellowship and edification as a lone scattered sheep. This is my attempt to edify my brethren. This Lord's Day I was reviewing journal and sermon notes and rereading my notes from Mr. John Welwood's sermon on 1 Peter 4:18 from 'Sermons in Times of Persecution' . His was a fearful admonition for some and encouragement for others. Not knowing my own heart I began self examination. What followed these notes were musings on what happened to the visible church as I knew it and then more notes on something that I read, but I cannot remember from where. It was instructive to me and I am sharing from my notes (not an exact copy of what was read) in the hope it will be helpful to someone.
                      >
                      > In our Covenants we swear 6 things:
                      >
                      > 1. We will endeavor to be humbled for our sins and for the sins of the kingdom. (the plantations in the US, Canada and elsewhere were prayerfully petitioned for in the Directory for Public Worship, so I can safely assume we were in their prayers and contendings)
                      >
                      > 2. We will go before one another in an example of real reformation requiring more amendment of life than fighting and disputes.
                      >
                      > 3. We will endeavor to amend our lives and reform not only ourselves but all those that are under our charge.
                      > (this was a concern of Thomas Manton at the beginning of my Westminster Confession of Faith and I fear it has not yet been realized among us)
                      >
                      > 4. To endeavor to bring the 3 Kingdoms to the nearest conjunction and uniformity in religion, Confession of Faith, Form of Church Government, Directory for Worship and Catechizing.
                      > (as a former plantation of Great Britain all Westminster accepting Reformed Churches in this nation are bound to our fathers covenants as their spiritual posterity and their visible representation as I understand it)
                      >
                      > 5. To endeavor the extirpation of Popery, Prelacy, superstition, heresy and schism in our place, calling and station - one cannot contend for a toleration of all religions and keep this oath.
                      >
                      > 6. Against a detestable indifference and neutrality in this cause that so much concerns the glory of God. How many care not for what becomes of the (public) cause of God so that they may have peace and quiet, indifferent as to which contending parties prevail as long as they may have their trading again.
                      >
                      > I believe all true covenanters would do well to consider all these things for they have caused us to be scattered one from another on this dark day and to our own and our families hurt. I encourage each covenanter to prayerfully look each to his own heart as I did to mine. On Monday the Lord was by his gracious spirit already helping me with #1 I have a long way to go.
                      >
                      > May our heavenly Father pity us as children of dust.
                      >

                      Thank you for your heartfelt post -- would that more of the Lord's children were as zealous for His cause!



                    • raging_calvinist
                      Sorry folks. I m not sure how that one got through unmoderated. gmw.
                      Message 10 of 26 , Dec 13, 2009
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                        Sorry folks. I'm not sure how that one got through unmoderated.

                        gmw.

                        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Connie Blaine <nylaadee@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > you are a fool. the covenanters are a cult. the gospel has nothing to do with politics or worldly nations. the biblical covenant is a will and testament and Christ is the testator of that will to save those who are written in the book of life. so that the elect would inherit not only eternal life but a new earth and heaven. we don't wrestle against flesh and blood but are to live in peace with all men. ours is not to put down or crusade against false religions. to follow the reformed tradition is no different then catholics following theirs. there is no possibility of correction. sad to say that the reformation ended about 400 years ago. the reformed creeds have many false doctrins in them. for example, we are not justified by our faith but by the faith of Christ. we are justified by his faith and work and not by anything in or through us. (gal.2:16) etc. there is no church that has not perverted the gospel. study your Bible and stop listening to these
                        > people. the regulative principle does not exist the way they say. Deut. 12:32 is speaking of adding to the word of God as well as prov.30:6 and rev.22:18 there is nothing in the bible that says you cant celebrate holidays like Christmas. remember, we are to do all things in a God glorifying way. MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERY ONE, james
                        >
                        > --- On Wed, 12/9/09, christabella.warren <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                        >
                        > From: christabella.warren <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: the Covenanted Reformation
                        > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 7:19 PM
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >  
                        >
                        >
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                        >
                        > --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, pearl4dc <no_reply@ .> wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > I have for many years kept my distance from this Club for fear of sinning by giving offense or being offended. I speak too much and sin is not absent. I understand too little, for that reason. I am zealous but not always in the right spirit. It takes me years to understand what I said that was so wrong. I joined this month out of a desire for fellowship and edification as a lone scattered sheep. This is my attempt to edify my brethren. This Lord's Day I was reviewing journal and sermon notes and rereading my notes from Mr. John Welwood's sermon on 1 Peter 4:18 from 'Sermons in Times of Persecution' . His was a fearful admonition for some and encouragement for others. Not knowing my own heart I began self examination. What followed these notes were musings on what happened to the visible church as I knew it and then more notes on something that I read, but I cannot remember from where. It was instructive to me and I am sharing from my notes
                        > (not an exact copy of what was read) in the hope it will be helpful to someone.
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > In our Covenants we swear 6 things:
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > 1. We will endeavor to be humbled for our sins and for the sins of the kingdom. (the plantations in the US, Canada and elsewhere were prayerfully petitioned for in the Directory for Public Worship, so I can safely assume we were in their prayers and contendings)
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > 2. We will go before one another in an example of real reformation requiring more amendment of life than fighting and disputes.
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > 3. We will endeavor to amend our lives and reform not only ourselves but all those that are under our charge.
                        >
                        > > (this was a concern of Thomas Manton at the beginning of my Westminster Confession of Faith and I fear it has not yet been realized among us)
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > 4. To endeavor to bring the 3 Kingdoms to the nearest conjunction and uniformity in religion, Confession of Faith, Form of Church Government, Directory for Worship and Catechizing.
                        >
                        > > (as a former plantation of Great Britain all Westminster accepting Reformed Churches in this nation are bound to our fathers covenants as their spiritual posterity and their visible representation as I understand it)
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > 5. To endeavor the extirpation of Popery, Prelacy, superstition, heresy and schism in our place, calling and station - one cannot contend for a toleration of all religions and keep this oath.
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > 6. Against a detestable indifference and neutrality in this cause that so much concerns the glory of God. How many care not for what becomes of the (public) cause of God so that they may have peace and quiet, indifferent as to which contending parties prevail as long as they may have their trading again.
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > I believe all true covenanters would do well to consider all these things for they have caused us to be scattered one from another on this dark day and to our own and our families hurt. I encourage each covenanter to prayerfully look each to his own heart as I did to mine. On Monday the Lord was by his gracious spirit already helping me with #1 I have a long way to go.
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                        > > May our heavenly Father pity us as children of dust.
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                        > Thank you for your heartfelt post -- would that more of the Lord's children were as zealous for His cause!
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                      • bob_suden
                        grevoitua rgfxmokjn9iohfdnfpnvdcioo-0p-fd;iknoikk;hojz critu vriotj vr so there oipzesrtv 8oi that ought to settle it and anutherthing how can we take u
                        Message 11 of 26 , Dec 13, 2009
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                          grevoitua rgfxmokjn9iohfdnfpnvdcioo-0p-fd;iknoikk;hojz critu vriotj vr
                          so there oipzesrtv 8oi that ought to settle it and anutherthing how can we take u seeriusly sinze u misspelled ur name no caps run on it is connieblaine
                          bye 4now adslk;'fjsao[ j

                          --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Connie Blaine <nylaadee@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > you are a fool. the covenanters are a cult. the gospel has nothing to do with politics or worldly nations. the biblical covenant is a will and testament and Christ is the testator of that will to save those who are written in the book of life. so that the elect would inherit not only eternal life but a new earth and heaven. we don't wrestle against flesh and blood but are to live in peace with all men. ours is not to put down or crusade against false religions. to follow the reformed tradition is no different then catholics following theirs. there is no possibility of correction. sad to say that the reformation ended about 400 years ago. the reformed creeds have many false doctrins in them. for example, we are not justified by our faith but by the faith of Christ. we are justified by his faith and work and not by anything in or through us. (gal.2:16) etc. there is no church that has not perverted the gospel. study your Bible and stop listening to these
                          > people. the regulative principle does not exist the way they say. Deut. 12:32 is speaking of adding to the word of God as well as prov.30:6 and rev.22:18 there is nothing in the bible that says you cant celebrate holidays like Christmas. remember, we are to do all things in a God glorifying way. MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERY ONE, james
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