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Worship Distincive

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  • bander1643
    FWIW Tom Ghostly Echoes: A Eulogy I. The great bulk, if not the entirety, of contemporary literature in Reformed and Covenanter circles concerning the subject
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 9, 2009
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      FWIW

      Tom

      Ghostly Echoes: A Eulogy

      I.

      The great bulk, if not the entirety, of contemporary literature in Reformed and Covenanter circles concerning the subject of psalmody approaches the issue in theological terms, as a question of moral rightness or correct exegesis of history and sacred texts. Without denying that these approaches can be appropriate, it is curious that the practice of Presbyterian psalmody, and particularly of Covenanter psalmody, has rarely elicited discussion of perhaps its core character, which is primarily social in nature. That is, psalmody as a practiced art is a ritual of worship which carries a potent social authority to create a particular kind of spiritual economy which defines a particular "People of God."

      read more: http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6366
    • Larry Bump
      ... That is one of the most vastly over-written straw-man arguments I have ever seen.
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 9, 2009
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        bander1643 wrote:
        > FWIW
        >
        > Tom
        >
        > Ghostly Echoes: A Eulogy
        >
        >


        That is one of the most vastly over-written straw-man arguments I have
        ever seen.
      • Larry Bump
        ... I m not really sure he had a point. The main thesis seems to be what we practice isn t really ethically driven, because it can t promote a fellowship by
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 9, 2009
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          christabella.warren wrote:
          > I need to read this article a little more closely when I have time, but isn't the author's basic point pro-Psalmody? In which case, isn't that a good thing?
          >


          I'm not really sure he had a point.
          The main thesis seems to be what we practice isn't really ethically
          driven, because it can't promote a fellowship by itself.
          But that's not rational or useful.

          Any distinctive has the same shortfall, and that's not the point of
          psalmody.

          The opening statement that we should look at exclusive psalmody and it's
          reasons for being practiced apart from a biblical/ethical position
          invalidates the whole application of the argument to RPW-believing
          Christians.
        • bob_suden
          ... Not to change the subject from the recent flurry of posts, but I agree with Larry on this one. P&R Christian commits hari-kiri in an unconditional and
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 13, 2009
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            --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Larry Bump <lbump@...> wrote:
            >
            > bander1643 wrote:
            > > FWIW
            > > Tom
            > >
            > > Ghostly Echoes: A Eulogy 

            >
            > That is one of the most vastly over-written straw-man arguments I have
            > ever seen.


            Not to change the subject from  the recent flurry of posts, but I agree with Larry on this one.
            P&R Christian  commits hari-kiri in an  unconditional and abject surrender to academic post modernism.

            IOW I found the article pretty confusing. Yes, psalmody was an important part of worship as well as emotional,  but the question is not whether it builds a community or camaraderie, but whether it is true.
            (I also  did not know that Washington Irving's was raised ScotchPresbyterian and quite famous in his  time as an American author. Had to go out and pick up a copy of his Legend of Sleepy Hollow illustrated by  A Rackham to get up to literary speed.)
            Front Porch Republic is also where DG Hart of the OPC  hangs out. He wrote With Reverence and Awe; Returning to the Basics of Reformed Worship in 2002.

            Yet a better defence of psalmody and the RPW  would be  Michael Bushell's Songs of Zion which CColdwell recently announced will be reprinted in the fall of 2010 by   Naptali Press  in an updated and augmented version. 
            While that's a ways off, it should be worth it.  Bushell's title is  still the premier contemporary defense of psalmody imo, blackballed and blacklisted by many modern moderate P&R churches and    unanswered because it is unanswerable.



          • skylermarks
            Thanks for the mention Bob, though Songs of Zion probably will be under my Confessional Presbyterian Press imprint as Naphtali s modus operandi is to publish
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 13, 2009
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              Thanks for the mention Bob, though Songs of Zion probably will be under my Confessional Presbyterian Press imprint as Naphtali's modus operandi is to publish voices from the past. I'm looking forward to working on it, though it has some challengingly long footnotes to consider in layout. The work is rather unique (in itself and for me) in being around for 30 years and for having gone through several editions prior with Crown & Covenant.

              Sincerely,
              Chris Coldwell
              Naphtali Press http://www.naphtali.com
              The Confessional Presbyterian journal http://www.cpjournal.com
              Westminster Letter Press www.westminsterletterpress.com


              --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "bob_suden" <bsuden@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Larry Bump <lbump@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > bander1643 wrote:
              > > > FWIW
              > > > Tom
              > > >
              > > > Ghostly Echoes: A Eulogy <http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/?p=6366>
              >
              > >
              > > That is one of the most vastly over-written straw-man arguments I have
              > > ever seen.
              >
              >
              > Not to change the subject from the recent flurry of posts, but I agree
              > with Larry on this one.
              > P&R Christian commits hari-kiri in an unconditional and abject
              > surrender to academic post modernism.
              >
              > IOW I found the article pretty confusing. Yes, psalmody was an important
              > part of worship as well as emotional, but the question is not whether
              > it builds a community or camaraderie, but whether it is true.
              > (I also did not know that Washington Irving's was raised
              > ScotchPresbyterian and quite famous in his time as an American author.
              > Had to go out and pick up a copy of his Legend of Sleepy Hollow
              > illustrated by A Rackham to get up to literary speed.)
              > Front Porch Republic is also where DG Hart of the OPC hangs out. He
              > wrote With Reverence and Awe; Returning to the Basics of Reformed
              > Worship in 2002.
              >
              > Yet a better defence of psalmody and the RPW would be Michael
              > Bushell's Songs of Zion which CColdwell recently announced will be
              > reprinted in the fall of 2010 by Naptali Press
              > <http://www.naphtali.com/2009/11/17/cpp-to-publish-michael-bushells-the-\
              > songs-of-zion/> in an updated and augmented version. While that's a
              > ways off, it should be worth it. Bushell's title is still the premier
              > contemporary defense of psalmody imo, blackballed and blacklisted by
              > many modern moderate P&R churches and unanswered because it is
              > unanswerable.
              >
            • bob_suden
              Greetings Chris, Are you going to be working on this reprint in conjunction with Bushell or separately? I have both previous editions (1977-80, 1993), the last
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 13, 2009
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                Greetings Chris,

                Are you going to be working on this reprint in conjunction with Bushell or separately? I have both previous editions (1977-80, 1993), the last of which I think, is out of print. Is there any particular reason you decided to reprint Songs of Zion?  (I can't imagine Ian Murray and Nick Needham had anything to do with it - not a chance.)

                cordially
                Bob S



                In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "skylermarks" <naphtali@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thanks for the mention Bob, though Songs of Zion probably will be under my Confessional Presbyterian Press imprint as Naphtali's modus operandi is to publish voices from the past. I'm looking forward to working on it, though it has some challengingly long footnotes to consider in layout. The work is rather unique (in itself and for me) in being around for 30 years and for having gone through several editions prior with Crown & Covenant.
                >
                > Sincerely,
                > Chris Coldwell
                > Naphtali Press http://www.naphtali.com
                > The Confessional Presbyterian journal http://www.cpjournal.com
                > Westminster Letter Press www.westminsterletterpress.com
                >
                >
              • skylermarks
                Bob, Yes; I am working with Mike who approached me about publishing SoZ on the strength of my other work. I took it on because I think I can do a good job and
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 13, 2009
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                  Bob,
                  Yes; I am working with Mike who approached me about publishing SoZ on the strength of my other work. I took it on because I think I can do a good job and it is an important work that needs to remain available, and this is a major rewrite which sets it apart from the earlier editions. Right; Needham/Murray had little sway in the decision.;0)

                  Sincerely,
                  Chris Coldwell
                  Naphtali Press http://www.naphtali.com
                  The Confessional Presbyterian journal http://www.cpjournal.com
                  Westminster Letter Press www.westminsterletterpress.com

                  --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "bob_suden" <bsuden@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Greetings Chris,
                  >
                  > Are you going to be working on this reprint in conjunction with Bushell
                  > or separately? I have both previous editions (1977-80, 1993), the last
                  > of which I think, is out of print. Is there any particular reason you
                  > decided to reprint Songs of Zion? (I can't imagine Ian Murray and Nick
                  > Needham had anything to do with it - not a chance.)
                  >
                  > cordially
                  > Bob S
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "skylermarks"
                  > <naphtali@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Thanks for the mention Bob, though Songs of Zion probably will be
                  > under my Confessional Presbyterian Press imprint as Naphtali's modus
                  > operandi is to publish voices from the past. I'm looking forward to
                  > working on it, though it has some challengingly long footnotes to
                  > consider in layout. The work is rather unique (in itself and for me) in
                  > being around for 30 years and for having gone through several editions
                  > prior with Crown & Covenant.
                  > >
                  > > Sincerely,
                  > > Chris Coldwell
                  > > Naphtali Press http://www.naphtali.com
                  > > The Confessional Presbyterian journal http://www.cpjournal.com
                  > > Westminster Letter Press www.westminsterletterpress.com
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Tim
                  Hi Chris Are you going to make it available as an E-book? Wishing you a blessed New Year. Tim Cunningham
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 2, 2010
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                    Hi Chris

                    Are you going to make it available as an E-book?
                    Wishing you a blessed New Year.
                    Tim Cunningham

                    --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "skylermarks" <naphtali@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Bob,
                    > Yes; I am working with Mike who approached me about publishing SoZ on the strength of my other work. I took it on because I think I can do a good job and it is an important work that needs to remain available, and this is a major rewrite which sets it apart from the earlier editions. Right; Needham/Murray had little sway in the decision.;0)
                    >
                    > Sincerely,
                    > Chris Coldwell
                    > Naphtali Press http://www.naphtali.com
                    > The Confessional Presbyterian journal http://www.cpjournal.com
                    > Westminster Letter Press www.westminsterletterpress.com
                    >
                    > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "bob_suden" <bsuden@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Greetings Chris,
                    > >
                    > > Are you going to be working on this reprint in conjunction with Bushell
                    > > or separately? I have both previous editions (1977-80, 1993), the last
                    > > of which I think, is out of print. Is there any particular reason you
                    > > decided to reprint Songs of Zion? (I can't imagine Ian Murray and Nick
                    > > Needham had anything to do with it - not a chance.)
                    > >
                    > > cordially
                    > > Bob S
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "skylermarks"
                    > > <naphtali@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks for the mention Bob, though Songs of Zion probably will be
                    > > under my Confessional Presbyterian Press imprint as Naphtali's modus
                    > > operandi is to publish voices from the past. I'm looking forward to
                    > > working on it, though it has some challengingly long footnotes to
                    > > consider in layout. The work is rather unique (in itself and for me) in
                    > > being around for 30 years and for having gone through several editions
                    > > prior with Crown & Covenant.
                    > > >
                    > > > Sincerely,
                    > > > Chris Coldwell
                    > > > Naphtali Press http://www.naphtali.com
                    > > > The Confessional Presbyterian journal http://www.cpjournal.com
                    > > > Westminster Letter Press www.westminsterletterpress.com
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • skylermarks
                    Tim, No plans to do so; at least by me. The agreement with Mike was for a nice print edition; preferably hardbound since it has only been issued before in
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jan 2, 2010
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                      Tim,
                      No plans to do so; at least by me. The agreement with Mike was for a nice print edition; preferably hardbound since it has only been issued before in paperback. We should know more as we progress during the early portion of 2010.
                      Sincerely,
                      Chris Coldwell
                      www.naphtali.com
                      www.westminsterletterpress.com
                      www.cpjournal.com
                      www.thebluebanner.com


                      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tim" <timmopussycat@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Chris
                      >
                      > Are you going to make it available as an E-book?
                      > Wishing you a blessed New Year.
                      > Tim Cunningham
                      >
                      > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "skylermarks" <naphtali@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Bob,
                      > > Yes; I am working with Mike who approached me about publishing SoZ on the strength of my other work. I took it on because I think I can do a good job and it is an important work that needs to remain available, and this is a major rewrite which sets it apart from the earlier editions. Right; Needham/Murray had little sway in the decision.;0)
                      > >
                      > > Sincerely,
                      > > Chris Coldwell
                      > > Naphtali Press http://www.naphtali.com
                      > > The Confessional Presbyterian journal http://www.cpjournal.com
                      > > Westminster Letter Press www.westminsterletterpress.com
                      > >
                      > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "bob_suden" <bsuden@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Greetings Chris,
                      > > >
                      > > > Are you going to be working on this reprint in conjunction with Bushell
                      > > > or separately? I have both previous editions (1977-80, 1993), the last
                      > > > of which I think, is out of print. Is there any particular reason you
                      > > > decided to reprint Songs of Zion? (I can't imagine Ian Murray and Nick
                      > > > Needham had anything to do with it - not a chance.)
                      > > >
                      > > > cordially
                      > > > Bob S
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "skylermarks"
                      > > > <naphtali@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thanks for the mention Bob, though Songs of Zion probably will be
                      > > > under my Confessional Presbyterian Press imprint as Naphtali's modus
                      > > > operandi is to publish voices from the past. I'm looking forward to
                      > > > working on it, though it has some challengingly long footnotes to
                      > > > consider in layout. The work is rather unique (in itself and for me) in
                      > > > being around for 30 years and for having gone through several editions
                      > > > prior with Crown & Covenant.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Sincerely,
                      > > > > Chris Coldwell
                      > > > > Naphtali Press http://www.naphtali.com
                      > > > > The Confessional Presbyterian journal http://www.cpjournal.com
                      > > > > Westminster Letter Press www.westminsterletterpress.com
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
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