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A Christian perspective on Israel's war on Gaza

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  • Ic Neltococayotl
    Found this on a RPCNA s minister s blog and thought it worth while sharing: http://linkinblogs.blogspot.com/2009/01/war-in-gaza-biblical-perspective .html
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 22, 2009
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      Found this on a RPCNA's minister's blog and thought it worth while sharing:

      http://linkinblogs.blogspot.com/2009/01/war-in-gaza-biblical-perspective.html

      Not all that Israel does today is just or Biblical.

       

      Edgar Ibarra

      Westminster Presbyterian Church

      Free Church Cont.

      Germantown, MD


    • bob_suden
      Hi Edgar, Even before Gaza, (the occupation of which some say is further brutalizing Israel) the idea that the Jews have some God given right to the land is
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 25, 2009
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        Hi Edgar,

        Even before Gaza, (the occupation of which some say is further brutalizing Israel) the idea that  the Jews have some God given right to the land is unbiblical.  Zionism is not Judaism. The Jews were exiled for disobedience the first time in the OT AND the second time at Christ's coming. Any OT prophecy of restoration typologically refers to an obedient/believing  Israel, much more to obedient/believing Gentiles.

        IOW one of the many fundamental errors of dispensationalist fundamentalism is that it overlooks  Romans 2:28,29:

         For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:   But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

        That means, Christian Zionists are judaizers.

        Reese is an up and comer in the RPCNA who pastors the Springs Reformed Church, Col. Springs. Co . It is a little strange though, to find a "Covenanter" pastor posting Winzer's critique  of the SL&C on his church's site, most of which, if not all,  is poorly argued imo. Others, such as RS Clark, who was the keynote speaker  at the recent "Recovering the Reformation" Reformation Day conference at SRC, deny  that God makes national covenants  in NT times, however fundamental the SL&C was to the Second Reformation and the Westminster Standards. I dunno, maybe Reese and the RPCNA need to come clean on exactly what they think and renounce the "Covenanter" label everybody else gives them.

        cordially
        Bob S.


        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Ic Neltococayotl" <puritanpresbyterian@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Found this on a RPCNA's minister's blog and thought it worth while
        > sharing:
        >
        > http://linkinblogs.blogspot.com/2009/01/war-in-gaza-biblical-perspective\
        > .html
        > <http://linkinblogs.blogspot.com/2009/01/war-in-gaza-biblical-perspectiv\
        > e.html>
        >
        > Not all that Israel does today is just or Biblical.
        >
        >
        >
        > Edgar Ibarra
        >
        > Westminster Presbyterian Church
        >
        > Free Church Cont.
        >
        > Germantown, MD
        >
      • Ic Neltococayotl
        Hey Bob, Yes Zionism is anti-Christian...ironic that many Christians support it!!! Example of poor discernment and lack of skills in hermeneutics! A great
        Message 3 of 3 , Jan 25, 2009
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          Hey Bob,

          Yes Zionism is anti-Christian...ironic that many Christians support it!!!  Example of poor discernment and lack of skills in hermeneutics!

          A great book, in modern English, on the classic Reformed position of Israel and the Jews is Iain Murray's The Puritan's Hope (online at http://tinyurl.com/btjd9).  That is an excellent treatment on the subject and avoids the crazy dispensational fad.

          Well, as for your words on the RPCNA, I recognize that the modern RPCNA cannot be defined as Covenanters as defined historically.  Many would probably "fess up" to that fact!  I think they hold that label more out of historicaly reasons than as a label defining their current principals in that regards.  I always see it used in quotes in conjunction to the RPCNA.  But I have also come to learn that some Covenanters in the past were not all Cameronians, but Covenanters nonetheless, and prior to William the Orange one, stayed separate from the establishment, just that they did not agree with Cameron and Cargill. 

          I thought RS Clark was a Reformed Baptist!

          Later dude!

          Edgar


          --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "bob_suden" <bsuden@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Edgar,
          >
          > Even before Gaza, (the occupation of which some say is further
          > brutalizing Israel) the idea that the Jews have some God given right to
          > the land is unbiblical. Zionism is not Judaism. The Jews were exiled
          > for disobedience the first time in the OT AND the second time at
          > Christ's coming. Any OT prophecy of restoration typologically refers to
          > an obedient/believing Israel, much more to obedient/believing Gentiles.
          >
          > IOW one of the many fundamental errors of dispensationalist
          > fundamentalism is that it overlooks Romans 2:28,29:
          >
          > For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that
          > circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is
          > one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and
          > not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
          >
          > That means, Christian Zionists are judaizers.
          >
          > Reese is an up and comer in the RPCNA who pastors the Springs Reformed
          > Church, Col. Springs. Co . It is a little strange though, to find a
          > "Covenanter" pastor posting Winzer's critique
          > <http://shawn-stickel.qwestoffice.net/documents/MicrosoftWord-SuccinctRe\
          > buttaltotheNeo-SteeliteThesis.pdf> of the SL&C on his church's site
          > <http://springsreformed.org/> , most of which, if not all, is poorly
          > argued imo
          > <http://reformedveritas.blogspot.com/2008/05/succinct-reply-to-succint-r\
          > ebuttal-to.html> . Others, such as RS Clark, who was the keynote speaker
          > <http://csrdc.wordpress.com/> at the recent "Recovering the
          > Reformation" Reformation Day conference at SRC, deny
          > <http://heidelblog.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/re-publication-of-the-covena\
          > nt-of-works-1/> that God makes national covenants in NT times,
          > however fundamental the SL&C was to the Second Reformation and the
          > Westminster Standards. I dunno, maybe Reese and the RPCNA need to come
          > clean on exactly what they think and renounce the "Covenanter" label
          > everybody else gives them.
          >
          > cordially
          > Bob S.
          >
          >
          > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Ic Neltococayotl"
          > puritanpresbyterian@ wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Found this on a RPCNA's minister's blog and thought it worth while
          > > sharing:
          > >
          > >
          > http://linkinblogs.blogspot.com/2009/01/war-in-gaza-biblical-perspective\
          > \
          > > .html
          > >
          > <http://linkinblogs.blogspot.com/2009/01/war-in-gaza-biblical-perspectiv\
          > \
          > > e.html>
          > >
          > > Not all that Israel does today is just or Biblical.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Edgar Ibarra
          > >
          > > Westminster Presbyterian Church
          > >
          > > Free Church Cont.
          > >
          > > Germantown, MD
          > >
          >
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