Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: 2008 ELECTION IS A REFERENDUM ON SOCIALISM

Expand Messages
  • bob_suden
    ... Ebenezer, Your hit and run spam and longwinded scree that `Obama bin Laden is only Biden his time in order to raise McCain outside the Palin on just
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 1, 2008
    • 0 Attachment

      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Ebenezer Erskine <ebenezer_erskine@...> wrote:
      >
      > 2008 ELECTION IS A REFERENDUM ON SOCIALISM  . . .


      Ebenezer,

      Your  hit and run spam and longwinded  scree that `Obama bin Laden is only Biden his time in order to raise McCain outside the Palin on just about everything' missed a couple of points.

      One,  Reformed Presbyterians consider the US constitution to be illegitimate  in that it is godless/ based on the will of the people contrary to the Second Reformation. Of course the real Ebenezer  Erskine and Secession theology bought  into the idea that whoever providentially holds the office of the magistrate is approved of God,  which is not the RP position either.

      Two, as mentioned previously, if Henry Ford said `you can have any color as long as it's black' when it came to the Model T, as should be only too obvious, the American public can vote for any candidate they want as long as they are socialist.  Nobody though, wants to talk about exactly how much college level socialism or "fascism " is ingrained in the American system as opposed to the more blatant orthodox or high school level "socialism " that the Dem. Obama champions. Our current fascist government system merely controls business and the economy through the independent regulatory commissions and agencies, while under  orthodox socialism,   the state actually owns the means of production.

      Much more could be said, but to cut to the chase, the real question on the `08 Presidential campaign is:

      What would Herr Hitler do?

      Let's see. Adolf was for abortion .
      Looks like we got the rabid Dem abortion monger candidate covered.
      But wait a minute,  didn't  the Nuremburg war crimes trials have something to say about aggressive pre emptive war.
      Oops, kind of sounds like Iraq . . . and maybe Iran  and . . . Georgia/Ossetia and . . . ? Looks like we got the rabid warmonger Repub candidate taken care of.
      In other words, whatever mainstream  candidate you vote for, the bi-partisan Equal Opportunity Hitler base is covered. Yay. Ain't democracy grand?


      Instead of all this talk about voting  "for the lesser of two evils" though -   as if Rom. 3:8 tells us that we may do evil that good may come - the Assembly's Directory for Public Worship  offers much sounder advice:

          WHEN some great and notable judgments are either inflicted upon a people, or apparently imminent, or by some extraordinary provocations notoriously deserved; as also when some special blessing is to be sought and obtained, publick solemn fasting (which is to continue the whole day) is a duty that God expecteth from that nation or people.


      Psalms 2:1-4 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?   The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,   Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.   He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.  

      Isaiah 8:13  Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.

      Isaiah 26:3  Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

      Thank you,

      Bob S.
       
    • Charles Barden
      Great post! Bob...who would you suggest voting for? I have always been one for the Constitution and am a member of the Constitution Party. I also plan on
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 1, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Great post! 

        Bob...who would you suggest voting for?  I have always been one for the Constitution and am a member of the Constitution Party.  I also plan on fasting on Monday with much prayer.  I think that both major candidates are socialists in many respects when you look at their voting records.  I am seriously thinking of writing in Ron Paul as most Montanans are even though I am a Carolinian.  Anyway, you speak the truth.  The god of this world is alive and well I am sad to say, sowing much confusion and dismay.  (no rhyme intended.)

        In Christ Our Lord,

        Charles
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "bob_suden" <bsuden@...>
        To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, November 1, 2008 3:11:22 AM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected
        Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: 2008 ELECTION IS A REFERENDUM ON SOCIALISM


        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Ebenezer Erskine <ebenezer_erskine@...> wrote:
        >
        > 2008 ELECTION IS A REFERENDUM ON SOCIALISM  . . .


        Ebenezer,

        Your  hit and run spam and longwinded  scree that `Obama bin Laden is only Biden his time in order to raise McCain outside the Palin on just about everything' missed a couple of points.

        One,  Reformed Presbyterians consider the US constitution to be illegitimate  in that it is godless/ based on the will of the people contrary to the Second Reformation. Of course the real Ebenezer  Erskine and Secession theology bought  into the idea that whoever providentially holds the office of the magistrate is approved of God,  which is not the RP position either.

        Two, as mentioned previously, if Henry Ford said `you can have any color as long as it's black' when it came to the Model T, as should be only too obvious, the American public can vote for any candidate they want as long as they are socialist.  Nobody though, wants to talk about exactly how much college level socialism or "fascism " is ingrained in the American system as opposed to the more blatant orthodox or high school level "socialism " that the Dem. Obama champions. Our current fascist government system merely controls business and the economy through the independent regulatory commissions and agencies, while under  orthodox socialism,   the state actually owns the means of production.

        Much more could be said, but to cut to the chase, the real question on the `08 Presidential campaign is:

        What would Herr Hitler do?

        Let's see. Adolf was for abortion .
        Looks like we got the rabid Dem abortion monger candidate covered.
        But wait a minute,  didn't  the Nuremburg war crimes trials have something to say about aggressive pre emptive war.
        Oops, kind of sounds like Iraq . . . and maybe Iran  and . . . Georgia/Ossetia and . . . ? Looks like we got the rabid warmonger Repub candidate taken care of.
        In other words, whatever mainstream  candidate you vote for, the bi-partisan Equal Opportunity Hitler base is covered. Yay. Ain't democracy grand?


        Instead of all this talk about voting  "for the lesser of two evils" though -   as if Rom. 3:8 tells us that we may do evil that good may come - the Assembly's Directory for Public Worship  offers much sounder advice:

            WHEN some great and notable judgments are either inflicted upon a people, or apparently imminent, or by some extraordinary provocations notoriously deserved; as also when some special blessing is to be sought and obtained, publick solemn fasting (which is to continue the whole day) is a duty that God expecteth from that nation or people.


        Psalms 2:1-4 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?   The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,   Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.   He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.&nb sp; 

        Isaiah 8:13  Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.

        Isaiah 26:3  Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

        Thank you,

        Bob S.
         

      • bob_suden
        Hi Charles, For now, as previously, the short answer is: Reformed Presbyterians consider the US constitution to be illegitimate
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 1, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi  Charles,

          For now, as previously, the short answer is:  "Reformed Presbyterians consider the US constitution to be illegitimate  in that it is godless/ based on the will of the people contrary to the Second Reformation" and consequently do not vote.

          (The link on the Nuremburg war crimes trials and aggressive pre emptive war was a glitch. Try here.)

          thanks,
          Bob

          --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Charles Barden <cbarden@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >..who would you suggest voting for?


        • Whit R
          Being a Reformed Presbyterian, I do vote in Elections. However, I always for a write-in who, though having a very slim chance of being elected, will
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 1, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Being a Reformed Presbyterian, I do vote in Elections. However, I
            always for a write-in who, though having a very slim chance of being
            elected, will challenge the illegitimate Constitution (and hence,
            unlawful Oath of Office) and seek to restore Christ's Kingship in the
            land. (None of the current candidates will do that. Hence, my vote
            for write-in.) Indeed, as Bob pointed out, fasting would be useful
            during this time.

            It is not unScriptural to vote in the Election, and voting being
            unlawful is not an necessary inference from that citation from the
            Directory. However, it is quite unScriptural to either vote for a
            female leader OR vote for a candidate who does not seek and maintain
            Christ's Kingship in Church and State since voting for the lesser of
            two evils is still voting for evil and hence unlawful voting.

            Whit
            Covenanted Reformed Presbyterian
            Washington Metrop., DC

            --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Charles Barden
            <cbarden@...> wrote:
            >
            > Great post!
            >
            > Bob...who would you suggest voting for? I have always been one for
            the Constitution and am a member of the Constitution Party. I also
            plan on fasting on Monday with much prayer. I think that both major
            candidates are socialists in many respects when you look at their
            voting records. I am seriously thinking of writing in Ron Paul as
            most Montanans are even though I am a Carolinian. Anyway, you speak
            the truth. The god of this world is alive and well I am sad to say,
            sowing much confusion and dismay. (no rhyme intended.)
            >
            > In Christ Our Lord,
            >
            > Charles
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "bob_suden" <bsuden@...>
            > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Saturday, November 1, 2008 3:11:22 AM (GMT-0500) Auto-
            Detected
            > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: 2008 ELECTION IS A REFERENDUM
            ON SOCIALISM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Ebenezer Erskine
            <ebenezer_erskine@> wrote:
            > >
            > > 2008 ELECTION IS A REFERENDUM ON SOCIALISM . . .
            >
            >
            > Ebenezer,
            >
            > Your hit and run spam and longwinded scree that `Obama bin Laden is
            only Biden his time in order to raise McCain outside the Palin on
            just about everything' missed a couple of points.
            >
            > One, Reformed Presbyterians consider the US constitution to be
            illegitimate in that it is godless/ based on the will of the people
            contrary to the Second Reformation. Of course the real Ebenezer
            Erskine and Secession theology bought into the idea that whoever
            providentially holds the office of the magistrate is approved of God,
            which is not the RP position either.
            >
            > Two, as mentioned previously, if Henry Ford said `you can have any
            color as long as it's black' when it came to the Model T, as should
            be only too obvious, the American public can vote for any candidate
            they want as long as they are socialist. Nobody though, wants to talk
            about exactly how much college level socialism or " fascism " is
            ingrained in the American system as opposed to the more blatant
            orthodox or high school level " socialism " that the Dem. Obama
            champions. Our current fascist government system merely controls
            business and the economy through the independent regulatory
            commissions and agencies, while under orthodox socialism, the state
            actually owns the means of production.
            >
            > Much more could be said, but to cut to the chase, the real question
            on the `08 Presidential campaign is:
            >
            > What would Herr Hitler do?
            >
            > Let's see. Adolf was for abortion .
            > Looks like we got the rabid Dem abortion monger candidate covered.
            > But wait a minute, didn't the Nuremburg war crimes trials have
            something to say about aggressive pre emptive war.
            > Oops, kind of sounds like Iraq . . . and maybe Iran and . . .
            Georgia/Ossetia and . . . ? Looks like we got the rabid warmonger
            Repub candidate taken care of.
            > In other words, whatever mainstream candidate you vote for, the bi-
            partisan Equal Opportunity Hitler base is covered. Yay. Ain't
            democracy grand?
            >
            >
            > Instead of all this talk about voting "for the lesser of two evils"
            though - as if Rom. 3:8 tells us that we may do evil that good may
            come - the Assembly's Directory for Public Worship offers much
            sounder advice:
            >
            > WHEN some great and notable judgments are either inflicted upon a
            people, or apparently imminent, or by some extraordinary provocations
            notoriously deserved; as also when some special blessing is to be
            sought and obtained, publick solemn fasting (which is to continue the
            whole day) is a duty that God expecteth from that nation or people.
            >
            >
            > Psalms 2:1-4 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain
            thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take
            counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
            Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
            He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them
            in derision.&nb sp;
            >
            > Isaiah 8:13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your
            fear, and let him be your dread.
            >
            > Isaiah 26:3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is
            stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.
            >
            > Thank you,
            >
            > Bob S.
            >
          • Whit R
            A 2nd thing. The only other Scriptural alternative in Elections (besides the lawful alternative of voting for a Christ-centered write- in) is not voting at
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 1, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              A 2nd thing. The only other Scriptural alternative in Elections
              (besides the lawful alternative of voting for a Christ-centered write-
              in) is not voting at all.

              Whit
              Covenanted Reformed Presbyterian
              Washington Metrop., DC

              --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Whit R"
              <covie_pres.1646@...> wrote:
              >
              > Being a Reformed Presbyterian, I do vote in Elections. However, I
              > always for a write-in who, though having a very slim chance of
              being
              > elected, will challenge the illegitimate Constitution (and hence,
              > unlawful Oath of Office) and seek to restore Christ's Kingship in
              the
              > land. (None of the current candidates will do that. Hence, my
              vote
              > for write-in.) Indeed, as Bob pointed out, fasting would be useful
              > during this time.
              >
              > It is not unScriptural to vote in the Election, and voting being
              > unlawful is not an necessary inference from that citation from the
              > Directory. However, it is quite unScriptural to either vote for a
              > female leader OR vote for a candidate who does not seek and
              maintain
              > Christ's Kingship in Church and State since voting for the lesser
              of
              > two evils is still voting for evil and hence unlawful voting.
              >
              > Whit
              > Covenanted Reformed Presbyterian
              > Washington Metrop., DC
              >
              > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Charles Barden
              > <cbarden@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Great post!
              > >
              > > Bob...who would you suggest voting for? I have always been one
              for
              > the Constitution and am a member of the Constitution Party. I also
              > plan on fasting on Monday with much prayer. I think that both major
              > candidates are socialists in many respects when you look at their
              > voting records. I am seriously thinking of writing in Ron Paul as
              > most Montanans are even though I am a Carolinian. Anyway, you speak
              > the truth. The god of this world is alive and well I am sad to say,
              > sowing much confusion and dismay. (no rhyme intended.)
              > >
              > > In Christ Our Lord,
              > >
              > > Charles
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "bob_suden" <bsuden@>
              > > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Saturday, November 1, 2008 3:11:22 AM (GMT-0500) Auto-
              > Detected
              > > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: 2008 ELECTION IS A
              REFERENDUM
              > ON SOCIALISM
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Ebenezer
              Erskine
              > <ebenezer_erskine@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > 2008 ELECTION IS A REFERENDUM ON SOCIALISM . . .
              > >
              > >
              > > Ebenezer,
              > >
              > > Your hit and run spam and longwinded scree that `Obama bin Laden
              is
              > only Biden his time in order to raise McCain outside the Palin on
              > just about everything' missed a couple of points.
              > >
              > > One, Reformed Presbyterians consider the US constitution to be
              > illegitimate in that it is godless/ based on the will of the people
              > contrary to the Second Reformation. Of course the real Ebenezer
              > Erskine and Secession theology bought into the idea that whoever
              > providentially holds the office of the magistrate is approved of
              God,
              > which is not the RP position either.
              > >
              > > Two, as mentioned previously, if Henry Ford said `you can have
              any
              > color as long as it's black' when it came to the Model T, as should
              > be only too obvious, the American public can vote for any candidate
              > they want as long as they are socialist. Nobody though, wants to
              talk
              > about exactly how much college level socialism or " fascism " is
              > ingrained in the American system as opposed to the more blatant
              > orthodox or high school level " socialism " that the Dem. Obama
              > champions. Our current fascist government system merely controls
              > business and the economy through the independent regulatory
              > commissions and agencies, while under orthodox socialism, the state
              > actually owns the means of production.
              > >
              > > Much more could be said, but to cut to the chase, the real
              question
              > on the `08 Presidential campaign is:
              > >
              > > What would Herr Hitler do?
              > >
              > > Let's see. Adolf was for abortion .
              > > Looks like we got the rabid Dem abortion monger candidate
              covered.
              > > But wait a minute, didn't the Nuremburg war crimes trials have
              > something to say about aggressive pre emptive war.
              > > Oops, kind of sounds like Iraq . . . and maybe Iran and . . .
              > Georgia/Ossetia and . . . ? Looks like we got the rabid warmonger
              > Repub candidate taken care of.
              > > In other words, whatever mainstream candidate you vote for, the
              bi-
              > partisan Equal Opportunity Hitler base is covered. Yay. Ain't
              > democracy grand?
              > >
              > >
              > > Instead of all this talk about voting "for the lesser of two
              evils"
              > though - as if Rom. 3:8 tells us that we may do evil that good may
              > come - the Assembly's Directory for Public Worship offers much
              > sounder advice:
              > >
              > > WHEN some great and notable judgments are either inflicted upon a
              > people, or apparently imminent, or by some extraordinary
              provocations
              > notoriously deserved; as also when some special blessing is to be
              > sought and obtained, publick solemn fasting (which is to continue
              the
              > whole day) is a duty that God expecteth from that nation or people.
              > >
              > >
              > > Psalms 2:1-4 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a
              vain
              > thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take
              > counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed,
              saying,
              > Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from
              us.
              > He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have
              them
              > in derision.&nb sp;
              > >
              > > Isaiah 8:13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be
              your
              > fear, and let him be your dread.
              > >
              > > Isaiah 26:3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is
              > stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.
              > >
              > > Thank you,
              > >
              > > Bob S.
              > >
              >
            • Charles Barden
              bob... this is new for me. Why is the Constitution godless and therefore illegitimate? Is it because it is based on the will of the people? Were the
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 1, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                bob...

                this is new for me.  Why is the Constitution godless and therefore illegitimate?  Is it because it is based on the will of the people?  Were the forefathers puritans or pilgrims.  I am aware that Franklin was for lack of a better term agnostic. 

                Charles
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "bob_suden" <bsuden@...>
                To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, November 1, 2008 2:55:26 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
                Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: 2008 ELECTION IS A REFERENDUM ON SOCIALISM

                Hi  Charles,

                For now, as previously, the short answer is:  "Reformed Presbyterians consider the US constitution to be illegitimate  in that it is godless/ based on the will of the people contrary to the Second Reformation" and consequently do not vote.

                (The link on the Nuremburg war crimes trials and aggressive pre emptive war was a glitch. Try here.)

                thanks,
                Bob

                --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Charles Barden <cbarden@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >..who would you suggest voting for?


              • Larry Bump
                ... Both, with a *lot* of presbyterians in the mix. Franklin was a Deist. Washington was a Mason.
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 2, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Charles Barden wrote:
                  > bob...
                  >
                  > this is new for me. Why is the Constitution godless and therefore
                  > illegitimate? Is it because it is based on the will of the people?
                  > Were the forefathers puritans or pilgrims. I am aware that Franklin was
                  > for lack of a better term agnostic.


                  Both, with a *lot* of presbyterians in the mix.
                  Franklin was a Deist. Washington was a Mason.
                • Larry Bump
                  ... Forgot to add, the British Parliament called the 1776 war the Presbyterian Revolt .
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 2, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Larry Bump wrote:
                    >
                    > Both, with a *lot* of presbyterians in the mix.
                    > Franklin was a Deist. Washington was a Mason.
                    >

                    Forgot to add, the British Parliament called the 1776 war "the
                    Presbyterian Revolt".
                  • bob_suden
                    ... Yes. One doesn t have to get too far into the argument of the Reformed Presbyterian Testimony against the U.S. Constitution (1840)
                    Message 9 of 14 , Nov 2, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      > this is new for me.  Why is the Constitution godless and therefore
                      > illegitimate? Is it because it is based on the will of the people
                      ?
                      Yes.   One doesn't have to get too far into the argument of the  Reformed Presbyterian Testimony against the U.S. Constitution (1840)  linked to previously, which is a statement of the historic -not the modern - RP position on the American constitution,   to read  that:

                      1. In the United States Constitution there is no recognition of the Holy Scriptures, as extending their authority over the nation or over any individual citizen. The Preamble to that instrument is as follows:—"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings{43}of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this constitution, for the United States of America."—Among the objects here enumerated, there is not mentioned the observation of the laws of God, either as they are revealed by the light of nature, or in the Holy Scriptures. There is no mention of any rule as paramount to the will of the people, who ordain this fundamental law of the commonwealth.

                      In other words, how can a Christian who professes unqualified  allegiance to  "the prince of the kings of the earth (Rev.1:5)",  the Lord Jesus Christ, in good conscience also pledge allegiance to a document which recognizes no higher authority than "we the people"?

                      Neither  are we to "do evil that good may result (Rom.3:8)" by voting for someone else to take the unlawful oath of office in order to challenge the constitution. (For that matter, how did King Charles by his own lights, do anything different when he swore the SL&C only to annul it in the Acts Recissory?)

                      That is the question/issue and like it or lump it, it is also the classic RP/dissenter/covenanter  objection to the US constitution. (See also Roberts' RP Catechism at the Files page on this forum.) That it is not the position of the 1788 American revision of the Westminster Confession,  which on the basis of the two kingdom theory/doctrine, separates church and the state entirely, should be equally as obvious, regardless that the latter is by far the popular and prevalent
                      point of view today.

                      Thank you

                      Bob S

                      Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.   Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.   Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. Psalms 2:10-12
                    • puritanone
                      The lies of Obama are numerous, but the growing evidence that the real father of Obama is Frank Marshall Davis (communist and sex pervert), based upon the
                      Message 10 of 14 , Nov 3, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        The lies of Obama are numerous, but the growing evidence that the real
                        father of Obama is Frank Marshall Davis (communist and sex pervert),
                        based upon the investigations of journalists such as Andy Martin,
                        reveal what an utter fraud he is.


                        http://www.pr-inside.com/state-of-hawai-i-backs-andy-martin-r893026.htm

                        http://contrariancommentary.blogspot.com/

                        See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1ws00JCxxM (the last half of this
                        I reject, but consider the first half)


                        This is a great judgment of God that such an evil man has risen so far
                        with so much help from many powerful people in our country.

                        - Parnell McCarter
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.