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The May Day Protests

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  • Ic Neltococayotl
    On this May Day, as we see in the news or in your home town the Latino/Mexica people protesting and marching for immigration rights, I would like to offer
    Message 1 of 4 , May 1 7:32 PM
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      On this May Day, as we see in the news or in your home town the Latino/Mexica people protesting and marching for immigration rights, I would like to offer these insights and even challenge.

       

      How will the Reformed and Presbyterian Church respond to the growing number of immigrants, particularly the Latino/Mexica immigrants, which are the largest group?

       

      Will individual Reformed and Presbyterians jump on the Republican, Nationalist, anti-immigration band wagon and thus alienate the immigrants from even giving an audience to the Reformed Faith?  Speaking out against the "invasion" of the other cultures within our borders and wish to turn these "illegals" over to ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement)?

       

      OR

       

      Will the Reformed and Presbyterian Church/individuals act like Christ and stretch out their hands to the disliked and unloved Samaritans of our tim e?  Dine with the harlots and tax collectors (so to speak or as many see the immigrants)?  The duty of Christians is to proclaim the Gospel to all people regardless of their social standing, and not to be an agent to oppress those that are perceived below their status.  

       

      We talk about sending missionaries to foreign lands, what will we do with those from foreign lands that are at our doorstep?  Ignore them or reach out to them with the one True Gospel?  Many of them are Roman Catholic or Muslim by profession, WE can reach out to them and by the power of the Gospel and the work of the Holy Spirit they can become followers of Christ.

       

      The Church has a tremendous opportunity and even obligation to reach out to the newly arrival in this nation.  I pray that the Church does not squander this due to political ideology that can cause Christians to act contrary to the Gospel proclamation as was done towards the African-Americans.

       

       

       

      Proclaiming the Reformed Faith in Spanish at

      www.PresbiterianoReformado.org

       

      Edgar A Ibarra Jr

      Albany, NY

      Berkshire RPCNA

    • John Hackler
      Where does the concept of order and keeping the laws of the land that are not in conflict with God s law? The laws in regard to the border are there for the
      Message 2 of 4 , May 1 10:44 PM
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        Where does the concept of order and keeping the laws of the land that are not in conflict with God's law? The laws in regard to the border are there for the sake of order and there is a immigration policy in place and while I am sure it's in need of attention is that just cause for people to break the law to enter the country and to continue on breaking more laws to remain?

         

        John

        --- On Thu, 5/1/08, Ic Neltococayotl <puritanpresbyterian@...> wrote:

        From: Ic Neltococayotl <puritanpresbyterian@...>
        Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] The May Day Protests
        To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, May 1, 2008, 7:32 PM

        On this May Day, as we see in the news or in your home town the Latino/Mexica people protesting and marching for immigration rights, I would like to offer these insights and even challenge.

         

        How will the Reformed and Presbyterian Church respond to the growing number of immigrants, particularly the Latino/Mexica immigrants, which are the largest group?

         

        Will individual Reformed and Presbyterians jump on the Republican, Nationalist, anti-immigration band wagon and thus alienate the immigrants from even giving an audience to the Reformed Faith?  Speaking out against the "invasion" of the other cultures within our borders and wish to turn these "illegals" over to ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) ?

         

        OR

         

        Will the Reformed and Presbyterian Church/individuals act like Christ and stretch out their hands to the disliked and unloved Samaritans of our tim e?  Dine with the harlots and tax collectors (so to speak or as many see the immigrants)?  The duty of Christians is to proclaim the Gospel to all people regardless of their social standing, and not to be an agent to oppress those that are perceived below their status.  

         

        We talk about sending missionaries to foreign lands, what will we do with those from foreign lands that are at our doorstep?  Ignore them or reach out to them with the one True Gospel?  Many of them are Roman Catholic or Muslim by profession, WE can reach out to them and by the power of the Gospel and the work of the Holy Spirit they can become followers of Christ.

         

        The Church has a tremendous opportunity and even obligation to reach out to the newly arrival in this nation.  I pray that the Church does not squander this due to political ideology that can cause Christians to act contrary to the Gospel proclamation as was done towards the African-Americans.

         

         

         

        Proclaiming the Reformed Faith in Spanish at

        www.PresbiterianoRe formado.org

         

        Edgar A Ibarra Jr

        Albany, NY

        Berkshire RPCNA



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      • Ic Neltococayotl
        What is the primary responsibility of the Church? When Rome occupied Israel, what was the mentality of the Jews of that time? How did that mentality initially
        Message 3 of 4 , May 2 5:23 AM
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          What is the primary responsibility of the Church?

          When Rome occupied Israel, what was the mentality of the Jews of that time?  How did that mentality initially receive Jesus Christ?  How did Jesus Christ react?

          There is a similarity between that time period and ours. 

          If a church (lower case) becomes the agent of ICE, then that church will utterly fail in its primary mission as the Church.

          Remember our true citizenship is in Heaven we are just pilgrims/migrants in this world. 

          The church in the South failed soon after the War of Northern Aggression with the newly liberated blacks and instead of reaching out to them in the mercy of Jesus Christ, they went along with their immediate society and helped to make life very hard for blacks, include assisting lynchings, murder, and allowing members of the KKK to become part of the church of Christ.  Hence the long since divide between black and white churches.  A pathetic commentary on both sides .  Sad.

          And please don't tell me about upholding US law in regards to the border....please...the US Govt is the biggest hypocrite when it comes to this!  Just about every war has been about the US govt violating the sovereign borders of other nations resulting in far, far more death and misery than the current immigration problems the US is experiencing.     By far.

          The church should use this great opportunity to reach out to them with the Gospel, because if the Reformed church does not, others will and the Truth of God will not go forth as it should due to sinful Nationalistic pride instead of pursuing the Royal prerogatives and crown rights of King Jesus.  Humanly speaking, cause if one group keeps its mouth shut God will just raise up another to bring His Truth forth and discipline the one that did nothing to proclaim His Good News.  The Word has examples of this.

          For the cause of Christ over all the Nations,

          Edgar Ibarra
        • John Hackler
          What is the primary responsibility of the Church? To preach the Gospel of Christ, tend the Flock…Faith comes by hearing… If a church (lower case) becomes
          Message 4 of 4 , May 2 8:14 PM
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            What is the primary responsibility of the Church?

             

            To preach the Gospel of Christ, tend the Flock…Faith comes by hearing…

             


            If a church (lower case) becomes the agent of ICE, then that church will utterly fail in its primary mission as the Church.

             

            If a church is used to harbor those who are breaking the law it’s failing on one level… For any church to support unlawfulness is putting itself into corner… On the other hand I don’t believe the church has to check anyone’s “ papers” either, they are not the authority on this matter, but it shouldn’t be a place known for harboring those who are willfully breaking the law. There is a fine line there…



            Remember our true citizenship is in Heaven we are just pilgrims/migrants in this world. 

             

            Yes, but that doesn’t remove the temporal fact that nations exist and God’s people are citizens of various nations.  I believe there is a matter of discerning what is eternal and what is temporal in regards to this subject. Our spiritual citizenship doesn’t erase the reality we live and fact we are to obey the authority put in place over us by God, though we would hope we could use it to influence the world for the sake of Christ.



            And please don't tell me about upholding US law in regards to the border....please. ..the US Govt is the biggest hypocrite when it comes to this! 

             

            Does the hypocrisy of the authority negate one’s responsibility to obey the laws of the land that are not in conflict with God’s law?  Common sense dictates that Christians are going to have to deal with hypocrisy in regards to being under a secular civil government. The civil government Paul was living under in regards to Romans 13 was extreme, yet it was still the lawful authority and honor was due it where it didn’t conflict with God’s law. Part of the reason we are to subject ourselves to even the most hypocritical   civil authority even when it looks to not be in our best interest is because our faith in Christ is bigger than our fear of the secular authority, and we fear God, not man…

             

             

            Just about every war has been about the US govt violating the sovereign borders of other nations resulting in far, far more death and misery than the current immigration problems the US is experiencing.     By far.

             

            So the answer to the problem of the United States violating sovereign borders is to break the law? And churches should encourage such behavior?  I don’t believe that is the prudent way to go in the long run. What happens later down the road when the person gets deeper into the word and sees the hypocrisy in regards to one’s responsibility to obey God’s commands, that include the laws of the land that are not in conflict with God’s.

             
            The church should use this great opportunity to reach out to them with the Gospel, because if the Reformed church does not, others will and the Truth of God will not go forth as it should due to sinful Nationalistic pride instead of pursuing the Royal prerogatives and crown rights of King Jesus.  Humanly speaking, cause if one group keeps its mouth shut God will just raise up another to bring His Truth forth and discipline the one that did nothing to proclaim His Good News.  The Word has examples of this.

             

            I don’t believe the church is hamstrung by the current situation.  It’s not like the people in question are being held against their will, or not within reach.  I don’t see anything wrong for the church to take advantage of the fact people are here, but encouraging them to break the law isn’t going to bear the fruit you so desire…

             

            I must add that I believe your desire to spread the Gospel is sincere and for all the right reasons, I just don’t think we can justify the means regarding the subject matter… If the law said you can’t spread the Gospel that would be something else and you’d be within all your rights to ignore the law and spread the Word!


            John

             



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