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[Covenanted Reformation] Re: The E-Mail from Holland

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  • Ic Neltococayotl
    Thank you Larry!!! ... rather ... Netherlands . ... While not a European myself, I too fall (fell-since your correction) under the above description. Working
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
      Thank you Larry!!!

      > Many Europeans thought of the United Provinces first as "Holland"
      rather
      > than as the "Republic of the Seven United Provinces of the
      Netherlands".
      > A strong impression of "Holland" was planted in the minds of other
      > Europeans, which then was projected back onto the Republic as a whole.


      While not a European myself, I too fall (fell-since your correction)
      under the above description.

      Working at DHL as one of the customs inspectors, our book under
      "Holland" says, "see The Netherlands". I guess many fall under the same
      assumption still??

      Thanks again.

      Edgar


      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Larry Bump <lbump@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Ic Neltococayotl wrote:
      > > Larry,
      > >
      > > Are not the Netherlands and Holland synonymous? If not, my bad!
      > >
      > > Then where is Holland if not? I didn't think that was a city...
      > >
      > > ( =D> I think they are though).
      >
      >
      > No; South Holland and North Holland are provinces in the west of the
      > nation called The Netherlands (The Low-Lands).
      >
      > At one time most of what is the NetherLands (NL from now on) was part
      of
      > the Habsburg empire. Holland was one of the first areas independent
      > during the revolt.
      > -----------------------------
      >
      > From Wikipedia
      >
      > Holland's prominence in the United Provinces and Dutch Republic
      >
      > In 1432 Holland became part of the Burgundian Netherlands and since
      1477
      > of the Habsburg Seventeen Provinces. In the 16th century the region
      > became more densely urbanised, with the majority of the population
      > living in cities. Within the Burgundian Netherlands, Holland was the
      > dominant province in the north; the political influence of Holland
      > largely determined the extent of Burgundian dominion in that area.
      > Comitatus Hollandiae (1682)
      > Comitatus Hollandiae (1682)
      >
      > In the Dutch Rebellion against the Habsburgs during the Eighty Years'
      > War, the naval forces of the rebels, the Watergeuzen, established
      their
      > first permanent base in 1572 in the town of Brill. In this way,
      Holland,
      > now a sovereign state in a larger Dutch confederation, became the
      centre
      > of the rebellion. It became the the cultural, political and economic
      > centre of the United Provinces in the 17th century Dutch Golden Age,
      the
      > wealthiest nation in the world. After the the King of Spain was
      deposed
      > as the count of Holland, the executive and legislative power rested
      with
      > the States of Holland, which was led by a political figure who held
      the
      > office of Grand Pensionary.
      >
      > The largest cities in the Dutch Republic were in the province of
      Holland
      > such as Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Leiden, Alkmaar, The Hague, Delft and
      > Haarlem. From the great ports of Holland, Hollandic merchants sailed
      to
      > and from destinations all over Europe, and merchants from all over
      > Europe gathered to trade in the warehouses of Amsterdam and other
      > trading cities of Holland.
      >
      > Many Europeans thought of the United Provinces first as "Holland"
      rather
      > than as the "Republic of the Seven United Provinces of the
      Netherlands".
      > A strong impression of "Holland" was planted in the minds of other
      > Europeans, which then was projected back onto the Republic as a whole.
      > Within the provinces themselves, a gradual slow process of cultural
      > expansion took place, leading to a "Hollandification" of the other
      > provinces and a more uniform culture for the whole of the Republic.
      The
      > dialect of urban Holland became the standard language.
      >
      > [edit] Kingdom of Holland
      >
      > The formation of the Batavian Republic, inspired by the French
      > revolution, led to a more centralised government. Holland became a
      > province of a unitary state. Its independence was further reduced by
      an
      > administrative reform in 1798, in which its territory was divided into
      > several departments called Amstel, Delf, Texel, and part of Schelde en
      Maas.
      >
      > From 1806 to 1810 Napoleon styled his vassal state, governed by his
      > brother Louis Napoleon and shortly by the son of Louis, Napoleon Louis
      > Bonaparte, as the "Kingdom of Holland". This kingdom encompassed much
      of
      > what would become the modern Netherlands. The name reflects how
      natural
      > at the time it had become to equate Holland with the Netherlands as a
      > whole.[2]
      >
      > During the period the Low Countries were annexed by the French Empire
      > and actually incorporated into France (from 1810 to 1813), Holland was
      > divided into the départements Zuyderzée and Bouches-de-la-Meuse.
      >
    • Larry Bump
      ... I only know because a friend from eastern NL (Groningen, I think) didn t like people calling him a Hollander. ... You re welcome.
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
        Ic Neltococayotl wrote:

        > Working at DHL as one of the customs inspectors, our book under
        > "Holland" says, "see The Netherlands". I guess many fall under the same
        > assumption still??

        I only know because a friend from eastern NL (Groningen, I think) didn't
        like people calling him a Hollander.


        >
        > Thanks again.

        You're welcome.
      • Samantha E
        Edgar wrote: yeah, one of dem ur-a-pe-in nations... Edgar, You are priceless! ~Samantha ... From: Ic Neltococayotl To:
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
          Edgar wrote: "yeah, one of'dem ur-a-pe-in nations..."

          Edgar,
          You are priceless!
          ~Samantha

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Ic Neltococayotl <puritanpresbyterian@...>
          To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2008 6:02:23 AM
          Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: The E-Mail from Holland

          yeah, one of'dem ur-a-pe-in nations...

          where everything goes...

          --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, Jerry
          <ragingcalvinist@ ...> wrote:

          >
          > Holland's still a country, right?
          >
          > gmw.
          >
          > simon_padbury wrote:
          > >
          > > I didn't even know Bob had a blog.
          > >
          > > And who is Dennis?
          > >
          > > !
          > >
          > > --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
          > > <mailto:covenantedr eformationclub% 40yahoogroups. com>, Jerry
          > > ragingcalvinist@ wrote:
          > > >
          > > > i don't know what this about.
          > > >
          > > > gmw
          > > >
          > > > Ic Neltococayotl wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > I take it everyone here got that e-mail from Holland from
          Dennis?
          > > > >
          > > > > So, Dennis, what is the point? I am just wonderng why we all got
          > > it (I
          > > > > suppose to show the content that Bob deleted from his blog?)?
          > > > >
          > > > > I personally was unaware of that discussion on that
          > > blog...actually did
          > > > > not even know there was a place to post on Bob's blog!
          > > > >
          > > > > Edgar
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          >




          Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
        • bander1643
          Flemish Giant & Netherlands Dwarf: http://tinyurl.com/35zqwb ... Flemish).
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
            Flemish Giant & Netherlands Dwarf:

            http://tinyurl.com/35zqwb

            > Part of NL, I believe was Flanders (were they call themselves
            Flemish).
          • bob_suden
            ... That s always a safe response, Jerry! I know nothing. ... it (I suppose to show the content that Bob deleted from his blog?)? ... blog...actually did not
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
              --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Jerry
              <ragingcalvinist@...> wrote:
              >
              > i don't know what this about.

              That's always a safe response, Jerry!
              I know nothing.

              >
              > gmw
              >
              > Ic Neltococayotl wrote:
              > >
              > > I take it everyone here got that e-mail from Holland from Dennis?
              > >
              > > So, Dennis, what is the point? I am just wonderng why we all got
              it (I suppose to show the content that Bob deleted from his blog?)?
              > >
              > > I personally was unaware of that discussion on that
              blog...actually did not even know there was a place to post on Bob's
              blog!
              > >
              > > Edgar


              Better check the battery and warranty for that decoder ring, Edgar.


              Seriously as regards the Dutch email, to a boy with a hammer,
              everything is a nail. Because I do not agree with or understand Mr.
              Grutzmacher 100%, I am a papist or a promoter thereof.

              For instance, some of those excommunicated by the RPNA(GM) have joined
              churches, such as the OPC, URC, RPCNA etc. which deny the consensus
              view of the Reformation that the Pope is the Antichrist.
              Yet to my reply that it does not follow that to deny the extraordinary
              telephone session of the RPNA(GM) is to necessarily deny the
              Reformation witness against the papacy, Dennis descends further IMO
              into menacing and incoherent bile.

              In other words, when someone is given an opportunity/is requested to
              explain their comments and they vehemently refuse to do so, I avail
              myself of the little garbage can icon for their comments. And someone
              doesn't like that.

              Of course in all this, Mr. Grutzmacher or others even, may think my
              comments too flippant. If so, I respectfully refer them to Prov. 14:13:

              Even in laughter the heart is sorrowful; and the end of that mirth is
              heaviness.



              cordially in Christ,
              Bob S.
            • peterreynoldsbookseller
              As someone who has spent a little time around a few Dutch people and speaks Dutch, I can assure you that Dutch people use the word Holland as a synonym of
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 9, 2008
                As someone who has spent a little time around a few Dutch people and
                speaks Dutch, I can assure you that Dutch people use the word Holland
                as a synonym of Nederland, as well as to refer to Noord-Holland and
                Zuid-Holland.

                Peter Reynolds
                =====================
                --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Larry Bump
                <lbump@...> wrote:
                >
                > Jerry wrote:
                > > Holland's still a country, right?
                > >
                >
                >
                > Not really, no. It is the name of two provinces in The Netherlands.
                >
                > Breda is a city in North Brabant, so no; the email is not from
                Holland.
                >
              • Larry Bump
                ... Thank you for that. But it is so *imprecise*, you know?
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 9, 2008
                  peterreynoldsbookseller wrote:
                  > As someone who has spent a little time around a few Dutch people and
                  > speaks Dutch, I can assure you that Dutch people use the word Holland
                  > as a synonym of Nederland, as well as to refer to Noord-Holland and
                  > Zuid-Holland.
                  >


                  Thank you for that.
                  But it is so *imprecise*, you know?
                • Deejay
                  Hi Larry, and Peter, (Jerry quit being insular!-Tsk!) I m sure it s likely there is a very sound reason within Holland, of why it is thought of predominantly
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 9, 2008

                    Hi Larry,  and Peter,

                     

                    (Jerry quit being insular!-Tsk!)

                     

                    I’m sure it’s likely there is a very sound reason within Holland, of why it is thought of predominantly as the Netherlands in some other countries, but not the country in question,  itself.   It is, I would imagine a cultural thing. In that it is very precise to the Dutch and only appears otherwise to other countries. After all, it’s their country, so they should know.  It’s only a guess, but it seems likely. We Englanders say Holland too. But it’s probably just a European thing.

                     

                    ~Deejay

                     

                    From: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bump
                    Sent: 10 April 2008 01:35
                    To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: The E-Mail from Holland

                     

                    peterreynoldsbookseller wrote:

                    > As someone who has spent a little time around a few Dutch people and
                    > speaks Dutch, I can assure you that Dutch people use the word Holland
                    > as a synonym of Nederland, as well as to refer to Noord-Holland and
                    > Zuid-Holland.
                    >

                    Thank you for that.

                  • Big Ears
                    Hello, Not sure of what all this about but Ek Se here is a link, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_(terminology) David
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 10, 2008
                      Hello,
                      Not sure of what all this about but Ek Se here is a link,


                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_(terminology)


                      David
                    • Larry Bump
                      ... It s funny that they do so, but if you call a Brit (not from England proper) English they get all bothered. Or when you Brits call all Americans Yanks .
                      Message 10 of 20 , Apr 10, 2008
                        Deejay wrote:
                        > I’m sure it’s likely there is a very sound reason within Holland, of why
                        > it is thought of predominantly as the Netherlands in some other
                        > countries, but not the country in question, itself. It is, I would
                        > imagine a cultural thing. In that it is very precise to the Dutch and
                        > only appears otherwise to other countries. After all, it’s their
                        > country, so they should know. It’s only a guess, but it seems likely.
                        > We Englanders say Holland too. But it’s probably just a European thing.

                        It's funny that they do so, but if you call a Brit (not from England
                        proper) English they get all bothered.
                        Or when you Brits call all Americans "Yanks". The southern half of us
                        don't care for that one bit...

                        ;-)

                        Larry
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