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Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: The E-Mail from Holland

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  • Larry Bump
    ... No; South Holland and North Holland are provinces in the west of the nation called The Netherlands (The Low-Lands). At one time most of what is the
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
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      Ic Neltococayotl wrote:
      > Larry,
      >
      > Are not the Netherlands and Holland synonymous? If not, my bad!
      >
      > Then where is Holland if not? I didn't think that was a city...
      >
      > ( =D> I think they are though).


      No; South Holland and North Holland are provinces in the west of the
      nation called The Netherlands (The Low-Lands).

      At one time most of what is the NetherLands (NL from now on) was part of
      the Habsburg empire. Holland was one of the first areas independent
      during the revolt.
      -----------------------------

      From Wikipedia

      Holland's prominence in the United Provinces and Dutch Republic

      In 1432 Holland became part of the Burgundian Netherlands and since 1477
      of the Habsburg Seventeen Provinces. In the 16th century the region
      became more densely urbanised, with the majority of the population
      living in cities. Within the Burgundian Netherlands, Holland was the
      dominant province in the north; the political influence of Holland
      largely determined the extent of Burgundian dominion in that area.
      Comitatus Hollandiae (1682)
      Comitatus Hollandiae (1682)

      In the Dutch Rebellion against the Habsburgs during the Eighty Years'
      War, the naval forces of the rebels, the Watergeuzen, established their
      first permanent base in 1572 in the town of Brill. In this way, Holland,
      now a sovereign state in a larger Dutch confederation, became the centre
      of the rebellion. It became the the cultural, political and economic
      centre of the United Provinces in the 17th century Dutch Golden Age, the
      wealthiest nation in the world. After the the King of Spain was deposed
      as the count of Holland, the executive and legislative power rested with
      the States of Holland, which was led by a political figure who held the
      office of Grand Pensionary.

      The largest cities in the Dutch Republic were in the province of Holland
      such as Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Leiden, Alkmaar, The Hague, Delft and
      Haarlem. From the great ports of Holland, Hollandic merchants sailed to
      and from destinations all over Europe, and merchants from all over
      Europe gathered to trade in the warehouses of Amsterdam and other
      trading cities of Holland.

      Many Europeans thought of the United Provinces first as "Holland" rather
      than as the "Republic of the Seven United Provinces of the Netherlands".
      A strong impression of "Holland" was planted in the minds of other
      Europeans, which then was projected back onto the Republic as a whole.
      Within the provinces themselves, a gradual slow process of cultural
      expansion took place, leading to a "Hollandification" of the other
      provinces and a more uniform culture for the whole of the Republic. The
      dialect of urban Holland became the standard language.

      [edit] Kingdom of Holland

      The formation of the Batavian Republic, inspired by the French
      revolution, led to a more centralised government. Holland became a
      province of a unitary state. Its independence was further reduced by an
      administrative reform in 1798, in which its territory was divided into
      several departments called Amstel, Delf, Texel, and part of Schelde en Maas.

      From 1806 to 1810 Napoleon styled his vassal state, governed by his
      brother Louis Napoleon and shortly by the son of Louis, Napoleon Louis
      Bonaparte, as the "Kingdom of Holland". This kingdom encompassed much of
      what would become the modern Netherlands. The name reflects how natural
      at the time it had become to equate Holland with the Netherlands as a
      whole.[2]

      During the period the Low Countries were annexed by the French Empire
      and actually incorporated into France (from 1810 to 1813), Holland was
      divided into the départements Zuyderzée and Bouches-de-la-Meuse.
    • Ic Neltococayotl
      Thank you Larry!!! ... rather ... Netherlands . ... While not a European myself, I too fall (fell-since your correction) under the above description. Working
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
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        Thank you Larry!!!

        > Many Europeans thought of the United Provinces first as "Holland"
        rather
        > than as the "Republic of the Seven United Provinces of the
        Netherlands".
        > A strong impression of "Holland" was planted in the minds of other
        > Europeans, which then was projected back onto the Republic as a whole.


        While not a European myself, I too fall (fell-since your correction)
        under the above description.

        Working at DHL as one of the customs inspectors, our book under
        "Holland" says, "see The Netherlands". I guess many fall under the same
        assumption still??

        Thanks again.

        Edgar


        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Larry Bump <lbump@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Ic Neltococayotl wrote:
        > > Larry,
        > >
        > > Are not the Netherlands and Holland synonymous? If not, my bad!
        > >
        > > Then where is Holland if not? I didn't think that was a city...
        > >
        > > ( =D> I think they are though).
        >
        >
        > No; South Holland and North Holland are provinces in the west of the
        > nation called The Netherlands (The Low-Lands).
        >
        > At one time most of what is the NetherLands (NL from now on) was part
        of
        > the Habsburg empire. Holland was one of the first areas independent
        > during the revolt.
        > -----------------------------
        >
        > From Wikipedia
        >
        > Holland's prominence in the United Provinces and Dutch Republic
        >
        > In 1432 Holland became part of the Burgundian Netherlands and since
        1477
        > of the Habsburg Seventeen Provinces. In the 16th century the region
        > became more densely urbanised, with the majority of the population
        > living in cities. Within the Burgundian Netherlands, Holland was the
        > dominant province in the north; the political influence of Holland
        > largely determined the extent of Burgundian dominion in that area.
        > Comitatus Hollandiae (1682)
        > Comitatus Hollandiae (1682)
        >
        > In the Dutch Rebellion against the Habsburgs during the Eighty Years'
        > War, the naval forces of the rebels, the Watergeuzen, established
        their
        > first permanent base in 1572 in the town of Brill. In this way,
        Holland,
        > now a sovereign state in a larger Dutch confederation, became the
        centre
        > of the rebellion. It became the the cultural, political and economic
        > centre of the United Provinces in the 17th century Dutch Golden Age,
        the
        > wealthiest nation in the world. After the the King of Spain was
        deposed
        > as the count of Holland, the executive and legislative power rested
        with
        > the States of Holland, which was led by a political figure who held
        the
        > office of Grand Pensionary.
        >
        > The largest cities in the Dutch Republic were in the province of
        Holland
        > such as Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Leiden, Alkmaar, The Hague, Delft and
        > Haarlem. From the great ports of Holland, Hollandic merchants sailed
        to
        > and from destinations all over Europe, and merchants from all over
        > Europe gathered to trade in the warehouses of Amsterdam and other
        > trading cities of Holland.
        >
        > Many Europeans thought of the United Provinces first as "Holland"
        rather
        > than as the "Republic of the Seven United Provinces of the
        Netherlands".
        > A strong impression of "Holland" was planted in the minds of other
        > Europeans, which then was projected back onto the Republic as a whole.
        > Within the provinces themselves, a gradual slow process of cultural
        > expansion took place, leading to a "Hollandification" of the other
        > provinces and a more uniform culture for the whole of the Republic.
        The
        > dialect of urban Holland became the standard language.
        >
        > [edit] Kingdom of Holland
        >
        > The formation of the Batavian Republic, inspired by the French
        > revolution, led to a more centralised government. Holland became a
        > province of a unitary state. Its independence was further reduced by
        an
        > administrative reform in 1798, in which its territory was divided into
        > several departments called Amstel, Delf, Texel, and part of Schelde en
        Maas.
        >
        > From 1806 to 1810 Napoleon styled his vassal state, governed by his
        > brother Louis Napoleon and shortly by the son of Louis, Napoleon Louis
        > Bonaparte, as the "Kingdom of Holland". This kingdom encompassed much
        of
        > what would become the modern Netherlands. The name reflects how
        natural
        > at the time it had become to equate Holland with the Netherlands as a
        > whole.[2]
        >
        > During the period the Low Countries were annexed by the French Empire
        > and actually incorporated into France (from 1810 to 1813), Holland was
        > divided into the départements Zuyderzée and Bouches-de-la-Meuse.
        >
      • Larry Bump
        ... I only know because a friend from eastern NL (Groningen, I think) didn t like people calling him a Hollander. ... You re welcome.
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
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          Ic Neltococayotl wrote:

          > Working at DHL as one of the customs inspectors, our book under
          > "Holland" says, "see The Netherlands". I guess many fall under the same
          > assumption still??

          I only know because a friend from eastern NL (Groningen, I think) didn't
          like people calling him a Hollander.


          >
          > Thanks again.

          You're welcome.
        • Samantha E
          Edgar wrote: yeah, one of dem ur-a-pe-in nations... Edgar, You are priceless! ~Samantha ... From: Ic Neltococayotl To:
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
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            Edgar wrote: "yeah, one of'dem ur-a-pe-in nations..."

            Edgar,
            You are priceless!
            ~Samantha

            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Ic Neltococayotl <puritanpresbyterian@...>
            To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2008 6:02:23 AM
            Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: The E-Mail from Holland

            yeah, one of'dem ur-a-pe-in nations...

            where everything goes...

            --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, Jerry
            <ragingcalvinist@ ...> wrote:

            >
            > Holland's still a country, right?
            >
            > gmw.
            >
            > simon_padbury wrote:
            > >
            > > I didn't even know Bob had a blog.
            > >
            > > And who is Dennis?
            > >
            > > !
            > >
            > > --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
            > > <mailto:covenantedr eformationclub% 40yahoogroups. com>, Jerry
            > > ragingcalvinist@ wrote:
            > > >
            > > > i don't know what this about.
            > > >
            > > > gmw
            > > >
            > > > Ic Neltococayotl wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > I take it everyone here got that e-mail from Holland from
            Dennis?
            > > > >
            > > > > So, Dennis, what is the point? I am just wonderng why we all got
            > > it (I
            > > > > suppose to show the content that Bob deleted from his blog?)?
            > > > >
            > > > > I personally was unaware of that discussion on that
            > > blog...actually did
            > > > > not even know there was a place to post on Bob's blog!
            > > > >
            > > > > Edgar
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            >




            Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
          • bander1643
            Flemish Giant & Netherlands Dwarf: http://tinyurl.com/35zqwb ... Flemish).
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
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              Flemish Giant & Netherlands Dwarf:

              http://tinyurl.com/35zqwb

              > Part of NL, I believe was Flanders (were they call themselves
              Flemish).
            • bob_suden
              ... That s always a safe response, Jerry! I know nothing. ... it (I suppose to show the content that Bob deleted from his blog?)? ... blog...actually did not
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
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                --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Jerry
                <ragingcalvinist@...> wrote:
                >
                > i don't know what this about.

                That's always a safe response, Jerry!
                I know nothing.

                >
                > gmw
                >
                > Ic Neltococayotl wrote:
                > >
                > > I take it everyone here got that e-mail from Holland from Dennis?
                > >
                > > So, Dennis, what is the point? I am just wonderng why we all got
                it (I suppose to show the content that Bob deleted from his blog?)?
                > >
                > > I personally was unaware of that discussion on that
                blog...actually did not even know there was a place to post on Bob's
                blog!
                > >
                > > Edgar


                Better check the battery and warranty for that decoder ring, Edgar.


                Seriously as regards the Dutch email, to a boy with a hammer,
                everything is a nail. Because I do not agree with or understand Mr.
                Grutzmacher 100%, I am a papist or a promoter thereof.

                For instance, some of those excommunicated by the RPNA(GM) have joined
                churches, such as the OPC, URC, RPCNA etc. which deny the consensus
                view of the Reformation that the Pope is the Antichrist.
                Yet to my reply that it does not follow that to deny the extraordinary
                telephone session of the RPNA(GM) is to necessarily deny the
                Reformation witness against the papacy, Dennis descends further IMO
                into menacing and incoherent bile.

                In other words, when someone is given an opportunity/is requested to
                explain their comments and they vehemently refuse to do so, I avail
                myself of the little garbage can icon for their comments. And someone
                doesn't like that.

                Of course in all this, Mr. Grutzmacher or others even, may think my
                comments too flippant. If so, I respectfully refer them to Prov. 14:13:

                Even in laughter the heart is sorrowful; and the end of that mirth is
                heaviness.



                cordially in Christ,
                Bob S.
              • peterreynoldsbookseller
                As someone who has spent a little time around a few Dutch people and speaks Dutch, I can assure you that Dutch people use the word Holland as a synonym of
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 9, 2008
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                  As someone who has spent a little time around a few Dutch people and
                  speaks Dutch, I can assure you that Dutch people use the word Holland
                  as a synonym of Nederland, as well as to refer to Noord-Holland and
                  Zuid-Holland.

                  Peter Reynolds
                  =====================
                  --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Larry Bump
                  <lbump@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Jerry wrote:
                  > > Holland's still a country, right?
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > Not really, no. It is the name of two provinces in The Netherlands.
                  >
                  > Breda is a city in North Brabant, so no; the email is not from
                  Holland.
                  >
                • Larry Bump
                  ... Thank you for that. But it is so *imprecise*, you know?
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 9, 2008
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                    peterreynoldsbookseller wrote:
                    > As someone who has spent a little time around a few Dutch people and
                    > speaks Dutch, I can assure you that Dutch people use the word Holland
                    > as a synonym of Nederland, as well as to refer to Noord-Holland and
                    > Zuid-Holland.
                    >


                    Thank you for that.
                    But it is so *imprecise*, you know?
                  • Deejay
                    Hi Larry, and Peter, (Jerry quit being insular!-Tsk!) I m sure it s likely there is a very sound reason within Holland, of why it is thought of predominantly
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 9, 2008
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                      Hi Larry,  and Peter,

                       

                      (Jerry quit being insular!-Tsk!)

                       

                      I’m sure it’s likely there is a very sound reason within Holland, of why it is thought of predominantly as the Netherlands in some other countries, but not the country in question,  itself.   It is, I would imagine a cultural thing. In that it is very precise to the Dutch and only appears otherwise to other countries. After all, it’s their country, so they should know.  It’s only a guess, but it seems likely. We Englanders say Holland too. But it’s probably just a European thing.

                       

                      ~Deejay

                       

                      From: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bump
                      Sent: 10 April 2008 01:35
                      To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: The E-Mail from Holland

                       

                      peterreynoldsbookseller wrote:

                      > As someone who has spent a little time around a few Dutch people and
                      > speaks Dutch, I can assure you that Dutch people use the word Holland
                      > as a synonym of Nederland, as well as to refer to Noord-Holland and
                      > Zuid-Holland.
                      >

                      Thank you for that.

                    • Big Ears
                      Hello, Not sure of what all this about but Ek Se here is a link, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_(terminology) David
                      Message 10 of 20 , Apr 10, 2008
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                        Hello,
                        Not sure of what all this about but Ek Se here is a link,


                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_(terminology)


                        David
                      • Larry Bump
                        ... It s funny that they do so, but if you call a Brit (not from England proper) English they get all bothered. Or when you Brits call all Americans Yanks .
                        Message 11 of 20 , Apr 10, 2008
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                          Deejay wrote:
                          > I’m sure it’s likely there is a very sound reason within Holland, of why
                          > it is thought of predominantly as the Netherlands in some other
                          > countries, but not the country in question, itself. It is, I would
                          > imagine a cultural thing. In that it is very precise to the Dutch and
                          > only appears otherwise to other countries. After all, it’s their
                          > country, so they should know. It’s only a guess, but it seems likely.
                          > We Englanders say Holland too. But it’s probably just a European thing.

                          It's funny that they do so, but if you call a Brit (not from England
                          proper) English they get all bothered.
                          Or when you Brits call all Americans "Yanks". The southern half of us
                          don't care for that one bit...

                          ;-)

                          Larry
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