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[Covenanted Reformation] Re: The E-Mail from Holland

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  • Ic Neltococayotl
    [=D ] (I had to use my decoder ring to make sure...) ... Dennis?
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
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      =D>

      (I had to use my decoder ring to make sure...)



      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Jerry <ragingcalvinist@...> wrote:
      >
      > Holland's still a country, right?
      >
      > gmw.
      >
      > simon_padbury wrote:
      > >
      > > I didn't even know Bob had a blog.
      > >
      > > And who is Dennis?
      > >
      > > !
      > >
      > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
      > > <mailto:covenantedreformationclub%40yahoogroups.com>, Jerry
      > > ragingcalvinist@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > i don't know what this about.
      > > >
      > > > gmw
      > > >
      > > > Ic Neltococayotl wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > I take it everyone here got that e-mail from Holland from Dennis?
      > > > >
      > > > > So, Dennis, what is the point? I am just wonderng why we all got
      > > it (I
      > > > > suppose to show the content that Bob deleted from his blog?)?
      > > > >
      > > > > I personally was unaware of that discussion on that
      > > blog...actually did
      > > > > not even know there was a place to post on Bob's blog!
      > > > >
      > > > > Edgar
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Lynn
      I m not sure what email is being talked about....
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
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        I'm not sure what email is being talked about....<???>
      • Larry Bump
        ... Not really, no. It is the name of two provinces in The Netherlands. Breda is a city in North Brabant, so no; the email is not from Holland.
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
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          Jerry wrote:
          > Holland's still a country, right?
          >


          Not really, no. It is the name of two provinces in The Netherlands.

          Breda is a city in North Brabant, so no; the email is not from Holland.
        • Ic Neltococayotl
          Larry, Are not the Netherlands and Holland synonymous? If not, my bad! Then where is Holland if not? I didn t think that was a city... ( [=D ] I think
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
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            Larry,

            Are not the Netherlands and Holland synonymous?   If not, my bad!

            Then where is Holland if not?  I didn't think that was a city...

            ( =D> I think they are though).

            Edgar


            --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Larry Bump <lbump@...> wrote:
            >
            > Jerry wrote:
            > > Holland's still a country, right?
            > >
            >
            >
            > Not really, no. It is the name of two provinces in The Netherlands.
            >
            > Breda is a city in North Brabant, so no; the email is not from Holland.
            >

          • Larry Bump
            ... No; South Holland and North Holland are provinces in the west of the nation called The Netherlands (The Low-Lands). At one time most of what is the
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
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              Ic Neltococayotl wrote:
              > Larry,
              >
              > Are not the Netherlands and Holland synonymous? If not, my bad!
              >
              > Then where is Holland if not? I didn't think that was a city...
              >
              > ( =D> I think they are though).


              No; South Holland and North Holland are provinces in the west of the
              nation called The Netherlands (The Low-Lands).

              At one time most of what is the NetherLands (NL from now on) was part of
              the Habsburg empire. Holland was one of the first areas independent
              during the revolt.
              -----------------------------

              From Wikipedia

              Holland's prominence in the United Provinces and Dutch Republic

              In 1432 Holland became part of the Burgundian Netherlands and since 1477
              of the Habsburg Seventeen Provinces. In the 16th century the region
              became more densely urbanised, with the majority of the population
              living in cities. Within the Burgundian Netherlands, Holland was the
              dominant province in the north; the political influence of Holland
              largely determined the extent of Burgundian dominion in that area.
              Comitatus Hollandiae (1682)
              Comitatus Hollandiae (1682)

              In the Dutch Rebellion against the Habsburgs during the Eighty Years'
              War, the naval forces of the rebels, the Watergeuzen, established their
              first permanent base in 1572 in the town of Brill. In this way, Holland,
              now a sovereign state in a larger Dutch confederation, became the centre
              of the rebellion. It became the the cultural, political and economic
              centre of the United Provinces in the 17th century Dutch Golden Age, the
              wealthiest nation in the world. After the the King of Spain was deposed
              as the count of Holland, the executive and legislative power rested with
              the States of Holland, which was led by a political figure who held the
              office of Grand Pensionary.

              The largest cities in the Dutch Republic were in the province of Holland
              such as Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Leiden, Alkmaar, The Hague, Delft and
              Haarlem. From the great ports of Holland, Hollandic merchants sailed to
              and from destinations all over Europe, and merchants from all over
              Europe gathered to trade in the warehouses of Amsterdam and other
              trading cities of Holland.

              Many Europeans thought of the United Provinces first as "Holland" rather
              than as the "Republic of the Seven United Provinces of the Netherlands".
              A strong impression of "Holland" was planted in the minds of other
              Europeans, which then was projected back onto the Republic as a whole.
              Within the provinces themselves, a gradual slow process of cultural
              expansion took place, leading to a "Hollandification" of the other
              provinces and a more uniform culture for the whole of the Republic. The
              dialect of urban Holland became the standard language.

              [edit] Kingdom of Holland

              The formation of the Batavian Republic, inspired by the French
              revolution, led to a more centralised government. Holland became a
              province of a unitary state. Its independence was further reduced by an
              administrative reform in 1798, in which its territory was divided into
              several departments called Amstel, Delf, Texel, and part of Schelde en Maas.

              From 1806 to 1810 Napoleon styled his vassal state, governed by his
              brother Louis Napoleon and shortly by the son of Louis, Napoleon Louis
              Bonaparte, as the "Kingdom of Holland". This kingdom encompassed much of
              what would become the modern Netherlands. The name reflects how natural
              at the time it had become to equate Holland with the Netherlands as a
              whole.[2]

              During the period the Low Countries were annexed by the French Empire
              and actually incorporated into France (from 1810 to 1813), Holland was
              divided into the départements Zuyderzée and Bouches-de-la-Meuse.
            • Ic Neltococayotl
              Thank you Larry!!! ... rather ... Netherlands . ... While not a European myself, I too fall (fell-since your correction) under the above description. Working
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
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                Thank you Larry!!!

                > Many Europeans thought of the United Provinces first as "Holland"
                rather
                > than as the "Republic of the Seven United Provinces of the
                Netherlands".
                > A strong impression of "Holland" was planted in the minds of other
                > Europeans, which then was projected back onto the Republic as a whole.


                While not a European myself, I too fall (fell-since your correction)
                under the above description.

                Working at DHL as one of the customs inspectors, our book under
                "Holland" says, "see The Netherlands". I guess many fall under the same
                assumption still??

                Thanks again.

                Edgar


                --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Larry Bump <lbump@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Ic Neltococayotl wrote:
                > > Larry,
                > >
                > > Are not the Netherlands and Holland synonymous? If not, my bad!
                > >
                > > Then where is Holland if not? I didn't think that was a city...
                > >
                > > ( =D> I think they are though).
                >
                >
                > No; South Holland and North Holland are provinces in the west of the
                > nation called The Netherlands (The Low-Lands).
                >
                > At one time most of what is the NetherLands (NL from now on) was part
                of
                > the Habsburg empire. Holland was one of the first areas independent
                > during the revolt.
                > -----------------------------
                >
                > From Wikipedia
                >
                > Holland's prominence in the United Provinces and Dutch Republic
                >
                > In 1432 Holland became part of the Burgundian Netherlands and since
                1477
                > of the Habsburg Seventeen Provinces. In the 16th century the region
                > became more densely urbanised, with the majority of the population
                > living in cities. Within the Burgundian Netherlands, Holland was the
                > dominant province in the north; the political influence of Holland
                > largely determined the extent of Burgundian dominion in that area.
                > Comitatus Hollandiae (1682)
                > Comitatus Hollandiae (1682)
                >
                > In the Dutch Rebellion against the Habsburgs during the Eighty Years'
                > War, the naval forces of the rebels, the Watergeuzen, established
                their
                > first permanent base in 1572 in the town of Brill. In this way,
                Holland,
                > now a sovereign state in a larger Dutch confederation, became the
                centre
                > of the rebellion. It became the the cultural, political and economic
                > centre of the United Provinces in the 17th century Dutch Golden Age,
                the
                > wealthiest nation in the world. After the the King of Spain was
                deposed
                > as the count of Holland, the executive and legislative power rested
                with
                > the States of Holland, which was led by a political figure who held
                the
                > office of Grand Pensionary.
                >
                > The largest cities in the Dutch Republic were in the province of
                Holland
                > such as Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Leiden, Alkmaar, The Hague, Delft and
                > Haarlem. From the great ports of Holland, Hollandic merchants sailed
                to
                > and from destinations all over Europe, and merchants from all over
                > Europe gathered to trade in the warehouses of Amsterdam and other
                > trading cities of Holland.
                >
                > Many Europeans thought of the United Provinces first as "Holland"
                rather
                > than as the "Republic of the Seven United Provinces of the
                Netherlands".
                > A strong impression of "Holland" was planted in the minds of other
                > Europeans, which then was projected back onto the Republic as a whole.
                > Within the provinces themselves, a gradual slow process of cultural
                > expansion took place, leading to a "Hollandification" of the other
                > provinces and a more uniform culture for the whole of the Republic.
                The
                > dialect of urban Holland became the standard language.
                >
                > [edit] Kingdom of Holland
                >
                > The formation of the Batavian Republic, inspired by the French
                > revolution, led to a more centralised government. Holland became a
                > province of a unitary state. Its independence was further reduced by
                an
                > administrative reform in 1798, in which its territory was divided into
                > several departments called Amstel, Delf, Texel, and part of Schelde en
                Maas.
                >
                > From 1806 to 1810 Napoleon styled his vassal state, governed by his
                > brother Louis Napoleon and shortly by the son of Louis, Napoleon Louis
                > Bonaparte, as the "Kingdom of Holland". This kingdom encompassed much
                of
                > what would become the modern Netherlands. The name reflects how
                natural
                > at the time it had become to equate Holland with the Netherlands as a
                > whole.[2]
                >
                > During the period the Low Countries were annexed by the French Empire
                > and actually incorporated into France (from 1810 to 1813), Holland was
                > divided into the départements Zuyderzée and Bouches-de-la-Meuse.
                >
              • Larry Bump
                ... I only know because a friend from eastern NL (Groningen, I think) didn t like people calling him a Hollander. ... You re welcome.
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
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                  Ic Neltococayotl wrote:

                  > Working at DHL as one of the customs inspectors, our book under
                  > "Holland" says, "see The Netherlands". I guess many fall under the same
                  > assumption still??

                  I only know because a friend from eastern NL (Groningen, I think) didn't
                  like people calling him a Hollander.


                  >
                  > Thanks again.

                  You're welcome.
                • Samantha E
                  Edgar wrote: yeah, one of dem ur-a-pe-in nations... Edgar, You are priceless! ~Samantha ... From: Ic Neltococayotl To:
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
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                    Edgar wrote: "yeah, one of'dem ur-a-pe-in nations..."

                    Edgar,
                    You are priceless!
                    ~Samantha

                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Ic Neltococayotl <puritanpresbyterian@...>
                    To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2008 6:02:23 AM
                    Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: The E-Mail from Holland

                    yeah, one of'dem ur-a-pe-in nations...

                    where everything goes...

                    --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, Jerry
                    <ragingcalvinist@ ...> wrote:

                    >
                    > Holland's still a country, right?
                    >
                    > gmw.
                    >
                    > simon_padbury wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I didn't even know Bob had a blog.
                    > >
                    > > And who is Dennis?
                    > >
                    > > !
                    > >
                    > > --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
                    > > <mailto:covenantedr eformationclub% 40yahoogroups. com>, Jerry
                    > > ragingcalvinist@ wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > i don't know what this about.
                    > > >
                    > > > gmw
                    > > >
                    > > > Ic Neltococayotl wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I take it everyone here got that e-mail from Holland from
                    Dennis?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > So, Dennis, what is the point? I am just wonderng why we all got
                    > > it (I
                    > > > > suppose to show the content that Bob deleted from his blog?)?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I personally was unaware of that discussion on that
                    > > blog...actually did
                    > > > > not even know there was a place to post on Bob's blog!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Edgar
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >




                    Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
                  • bander1643
                    Flemish Giant & Netherlands Dwarf: http://tinyurl.com/35zqwb ... Flemish).
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
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                      Flemish Giant & Netherlands Dwarf:

                      http://tinyurl.com/35zqwb

                      > Part of NL, I believe was Flanders (were they call themselves
                      Flemish).
                    • bob_suden
                      ... That s always a safe response, Jerry! I know nothing. ... it (I suppose to show the content that Bob deleted from his blog?)? ... blog...actually did not
                      Message 10 of 20 , Apr 3, 2008
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                        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Jerry
                        <ragingcalvinist@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > i don't know what this about.

                        That's always a safe response, Jerry!
                        I know nothing.

                        >
                        > gmw
                        >
                        > Ic Neltococayotl wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I take it everyone here got that e-mail from Holland from Dennis?
                        > >
                        > > So, Dennis, what is the point? I am just wonderng why we all got
                        it (I suppose to show the content that Bob deleted from his blog?)?
                        > >
                        > > I personally was unaware of that discussion on that
                        blog...actually did not even know there was a place to post on Bob's
                        blog!
                        > >
                        > > Edgar


                        Better check the battery and warranty for that decoder ring, Edgar.


                        Seriously as regards the Dutch email, to a boy with a hammer,
                        everything is a nail. Because I do not agree with or understand Mr.
                        Grutzmacher 100%, I am a papist or a promoter thereof.

                        For instance, some of those excommunicated by the RPNA(GM) have joined
                        churches, such as the OPC, URC, RPCNA etc. which deny the consensus
                        view of the Reformation that the Pope is the Antichrist.
                        Yet to my reply that it does not follow that to deny the extraordinary
                        telephone session of the RPNA(GM) is to necessarily deny the
                        Reformation witness against the papacy, Dennis descends further IMO
                        into menacing and incoherent bile.

                        In other words, when someone is given an opportunity/is requested to
                        explain their comments and they vehemently refuse to do so, I avail
                        myself of the little garbage can icon for their comments. And someone
                        doesn't like that.

                        Of course in all this, Mr. Grutzmacher or others even, may think my
                        comments too flippant. If so, I respectfully refer them to Prov. 14:13:

                        Even in laughter the heart is sorrowful; and the end of that mirth is
                        heaviness.



                        cordially in Christ,
                        Bob S.
                      • peterreynoldsbookseller
                        As someone who has spent a little time around a few Dutch people and speaks Dutch, I can assure you that Dutch people use the word Holland as a synonym of
                        Message 11 of 20 , Apr 9, 2008
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                          As someone who has spent a little time around a few Dutch people and
                          speaks Dutch, I can assure you that Dutch people use the word Holland
                          as a synonym of Nederland, as well as to refer to Noord-Holland and
                          Zuid-Holland.

                          Peter Reynolds
                          =====================
                          --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Larry Bump
                          <lbump@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Jerry wrote:
                          > > Holland's still a country, right?
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > Not really, no. It is the name of two provinces in The Netherlands.
                          >
                          > Breda is a city in North Brabant, so no; the email is not from
                          Holland.
                          >
                        • Larry Bump
                          ... Thank you for that. But it is so *imprecise*, you know?
                          Message 12 of 20 , Apr 9, 2008
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                            peterreynoldsbookseller wrote:
                            > As someone who has spent a little time around a few Dutch people and
                            > speaks Dutch, I can assure you that Dutch people use the word Holland
                            > as a synonym of Nederland, as well as to refer to Noord-Holland and
                            > Zuid-Holland.
                            >


                            Thank you for that.
                            But it is so *imprecise*, you know?
                          • Deejay
                            Hi Larry, and Peter, (Jerry quit being insular!-Tsk!) I m sure it s likely there is a very sound reason within Holland, of why it is thought of predominantly
                            Message 13 of 20 , Apr 9, 2008
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                              Hi Larry,  and Peter,

                               

                              (Jerry quit being insular!-Tsk!)

                               

                              I’m sure it’s likely there is a very sound reason within Holland, of why it is thought of predominantly as the Netherlands in some other countries, but not the country in question,  itself.   It is, I would imagine a cultural thing. In that it is very precise to the Dutch and only appears otherwise to other countries. After all, it’s their country, so they should know.  It’s only a guess, but it seems likely. We Englanders say Holland too. But it’s probably just a European thing.

                               

                              ~Deejay

                               

                              From: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bump
                              Sent: 10 April 2008 01:35
                              To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: The E-Mail from Holland

                               

                              peterreynoldsbookseller wrote:

                              > As someone who has spent a little time around a few Dutch people and
                              > speaks Dutch, I can assure you that Dutch people use the word Holland
                              > as a synonym of Nederland, as well as to refer to Noord-Holland and
                              > Zuid-Holland.
                              >

                              Thank you for that.

                            • Big Ears
                              Hello, Not sure of what all this about but Ek Se here is a link, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_(terminology) David
                              Message 14 of 20 , Apr 10, 2008
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                                Hello,
                                Not sure of what all this about but Ek Se here is a link,


                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_(terminology)


                                David
                              • Larry Bump
                                ... It s funny that they do so, but if you call a Brit (not from England proper) English they get all bothered. Or when you Brits call all Americans Yanks .
                                Message 15 of 20 , Apr 10, 2008
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                                  Deejay wrote:
                                  > I’m sure it’s likely there is a very sound reason within Holland, of why
                                  > it is thought of predominantly as the Netherlands in some other
                                  > countries, but not the country in question, itself. It is, I would
                                  > imagine a cultural thing. In that it is very precise to the Dutch and
                                  > only appears otherwise to other countries. After all, it’s their
                                  > country, so they should know. It’s only a guess, but it seems likely.
                                  > We Englanders say Holland too. But it’s probably just a European thing.

                                  It's funny that they do so, but if you call a Brit (not from England
                                  proper) English they get all bothered.
                                  Or when you Brits call all Americans "Yanks". The southern half of us
                                  don't care for that one bit...

                                  ;-)

                                  Larry
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