Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [Covenanted Reformation] Why Stay at Home?

Expand Messages
  • Glenn Ferrell
    Thank you Edgar. You have a standing invitation to coffee or ale in Boise. However, though I wouldn t refuse a Samuel Adams Boston Ale or one of their other
    Message 1 of 37 , Mar 17, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Thank you Edgar.  You have a standing invitation to coffee or ale in Boise.  However, though I wouldn't refuse a Samuel Adams Boston Ale or one of their other specialty brews, we have better options here in the Northwest from some fine breweries.  Remember, most US hops are gown here.  And, I'd proudly share some of my own home crafted IPA, fondly designated Idaho Presbyterian Ale, as opposed to India Pale Ale, but true to the style of the latter.  So, plan a visit soon.

      J. Glenn Ferrell, Pastor, Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian Church, Boise, Idaho    http://sovereignredeemer.org

      To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
      From: puritanpresbyterian@...
      Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:52:46 +0000
      Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Why Stay at Home?

      Pastor Ferrell,
      I for one praise God for the work He has had you do there in Idaho.  If  I ever were in Boise, I would come and attend public worship at your congregation.  Then I would love to share a pot of coffee with you or a Samual Adams...
      You exemplify semper reformanda in action there.
      Yours in Christ,

      --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, Glenn Ferrell <jglennferrell@ ...> wrote:
      > What if one lived in Idaho, a huge state with few Reformed congregations? I came here to become pastor of Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian Church three years ago because of their basic commitment to confessional Presbyterianism and the Regulative Principle. We're in a sea of Mormons, Papists, Arminians and Charismatics. This is mission territory.
      > SRPC is part of the OPC and therefore part of a denomination which by their Directory of Worship seems to permit a blanket exception to the Confession's [XXI:v] listing of "singing of psalms with grace in the heart" as an element of worship:
      > "As it is the aim of public worship to glorify God, prayer and praise should predominate in congregational singing. Let every member of the church take part in this act of worship. It should be performed not merely with the lips but with the spirit and the understanding. Since the metrical versions of the Psalms are based upon the Word of God, they ought to be used frequently in public worship. Great care must be taken that all the materials of song are in perfect accord with the teaching of Holy Scripture." [OPC DPW III:6]
      > to include something other than canonical songs as the material in sung praise. To their credit, the OPC includes both the 1946-47 majority and minority reports regarding this issue on their web site for study, neither of them having been adopted as the official position.
      > http://opc.org/ GA/song.html
      > Some would honestly argue that the content of sung praise is equivalent to prayer and unspecified, though it should include Psalms, which serve as a model for other praise. The argument of the 46-47 majority report is unconvincing to me and is what turned me in the Exclusive Psalmody direction. However, there are non-EP people who still believe they adhere to the RPW.
      > SRPC's elders are among those. They are not convinced of EP, yet want to follow the RPW to the best of their understanding. Therefore, we acknowledge no so called "holy days," have no choir or special music, and follow a simple and reverential order of worship. Every service includes at least two selections from the Scottish Psalter, and one or two from the Trinity Hymnal, these more often than not being Psalms also. Most Lord's Days all eight sung selections (at two services) will be all Psalms, but there is no definite policy of sing EP. We're the closest thing to a RPW congregation one will find for many miles around. I introduced the Scottish Psalter after my coming. They're still adjusting to that.
      > We have several people who sing only Psalms. There is a definite commitment to see that these may in good conscience participate in most of the sung praise of our public worship, and no expectation they should violate their conscience. One will not hear preaching opposed to the RPW or EP. Also, I took an exception to the American amended version of the WCF and affirmed instead XXIII:3 of the original Confession. Therefore, one will not hear anti Establishment Principle preaching; and I have no problem publicly affirming the pope is the Antichrist.
      > My stated desire for SRPC would be for them to sing only canonical content. However, I know if they don't arrive there themselves such practice will not survive beyond my pastorate. Therefore, through teaching and positive experience singing the Psalms, I hope to move them in that direction. Whether this congregation is able to remain within the OPC with its distinctives, I don't know. All American Reformed bodies are transitional and future realignments are inevitable. However, it is interesting that some EP denominations (RPCNA, RPCI, FCoS, and FCoS-Continuing) maintain fraternal relations with the OPC.
      > I do believe one should be willing to move, if possible, even a great distance to be part of a sound church. (My wife, at one point prior to our marriage, moved to Scotland primarily to be part of an EP/RPW Free Church of Scotland Continuing congregation. ) If that is not possible, driving a distance to be part of such periodically is possible. We have one family which drives three hours to be part of SRPC. Sometimes, they are hindered from travel by snow in the winter.
      > I'm sorry more of you with your convictions would find yourself hindered from worshiping with or becoming members of SRPC. You would certainly be welcome and your contribution to the development of this congregation would be helpful. Starting a faithful congregation is one option; but reforming one is another, especially when leadership is open to such reform.
      > While I regard the singing of Psalms as important, it is not an essential. I would find it easier to be part of a congregation which is in practice, though not yet in principle, EP than to be part of an EP Dutch Reformed body which acknowledged Christmas and Easter in public worship. However, if I were traveling, and the only available congregation was PCA, where they acknowledged the fifth Sunday of Lent and sung only hymns, I'd still attend and hope to hear the gospel preached and have opportunity for fellowship with believers. I find myself in that situation a couple Lord's Days each year when I'm on vacation. I no longer have young children at home; but when I did, I had no problem with their occasional exposure to less than perfect churches. It gave me opportunity to point out and correct questionable theology and practice, and hopefully made them more discerning. I wouldn't have exposed them to such on a regular basis. I have on occasion driven an hour or more to attend an OP church, which didn't celebrate "holy days," rather than attend the PCA fifteen minutes away which did. I acknowledge the non "holy day" OP congregations are a minority these days.
      > We certainly have a messed up church situation in America. I pray Christ will send revival and reformation. In the meantime, we each must determine how we can best be faithful and make something of the providence God has given us. But, if any of you do find yourself in Boise, I hope you will at least have coffee with me and offer some encouragement.
      > Glenn
      > J. Glenn Ferrell, Pastor, Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian Church, Boise, Idaho http://sovereignred eemer.org
      > To: covenantedreformati onclub@.. .: ragingcalvinist@ ...: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 22:35:13 -0400Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Why Stay at Home?
      > I'll let Larry speak for himself, of course. But I wouldn't care about 1 mile, 10 miles, 100 miles or 1000 miles. If the issue is principle, distance doesn't make a difference.How can I teach my children that Exclusive Psalmody is God's way, and then take them to a pastor that teaches otherwise? Who are they to obey now? Who are they to believe now? Just something else to consider.gmw. Ic Neltococayotl wrote:
      > Larry,For the sake of argument, what if a family had no other choice within100 miles, but to go to a Reformed hymn singing congregation? Whatwould you counsel?BTW, my sentiments are equal to yours.Edgar- -- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, Larry Bump lbump@wrote:>> Jerry wrote:> > Hi Ben,> >> > I "stay at home" because I want to be a Covenanter, and there are no> > local established Covenanter churches.>>> I would not attend a service where hymns are sung. I am not alone in> this conviction, but neither is it the only position among friends and> even family.> None would *sing* the hymns, but I believe that attending is still> partaking in the corporate sin.>

    • bob_suden
      ... RPNA or RPNA(GM)? Reformed Presbyterian or pseudo presbyterian? Who cares what ... Taking a page from you Ben, on one hand I don t. On the other, there are
      Message 37 of 37 , Mar 22, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "benhartmail"
        <benjamin.hart1@...> wrote:
        > Bob,
        > It's ironic that you, who seem to have such a personal disdain for
        > anything RPNA, refuse to let matters drop with them.
        RPNA or RPNA(GM)? Reformed Presbyterian or pseudo presbyterian?

        Who cares what
        > they're doing, as far as you're concerned?
        Taking a page from you Ben, on one hand I don't. On the other, there
        are still people that remained in the group, who seemed to be largely
        untaught and were/are being led about by the nose of their tacit
        consent. You probably won't agree, but I saw and still see,
        FWIW/somewhat of an obligation to warn people about what's up.

        My original question was
        > regarding issues of unity and separation, and I'd like to keep it at
        > that level.
        Then keep it at that level please, but you do come with a background and

        I find your continual harassing of the RPNA--even if
        > justified to some level--unedifying and obnoxious.
        So what? Or should I say, what if I find your comments maudlin,
        unedifying and unable to come to a decent conclusion?

        You've got a blog
        > to take care of your ranting, perhaps you can keep it there.
        Pot, kettle, black.

        I asked
        > a peaceful question and was hoping for a peaceful discussion.
        > As far as the Effort is concerned, I didn't even bring it up in the
        > first place. Edgar asked how I regard those who've been
        > excommunicated by the RPNA and I gave an honest answer. Could you
        > tell that I was a little confused in how to regard you and I wasn't
        > coming down on a hard-and-fast conclusion?
        Sorry, Ben, your past behavior and efforts preceded you.

        > As for being an RPNA clone: have you forgotten who in the RPNA was
        > most vociferously against whoever wrote the law advocate email?
        > Maybe you'd like to know that that email virtually got me
        > excommunicated and is largely why my two girls remain unbaptized.
        Well, praise the Lord. I am glad to see you have some backbone.
        I was unaware of it.
        But one, some of us really were excommunicated and two, that should have
        clued you in to what kind of outfit the elders have become and what kind
        of sinful wickedness the doctrine of tacit consent would lead to.
        Instead, it seems, you waited till they disbanded and let you go. You
        protested our pseudo presbyterian Perry Mason, but not the elders.

        > Here's some advice from Paul that I think you would do well to heed.
        > "I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk
        > worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, with all lowliness
        > and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
        > endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."

        Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to
        the face, because he was to be blamed.
        Your dissimulation or confusion might be well meant, but that is still
        what it is.

        > If you have something edifying to say that will advance my
        > understanding of issues of unity and separation, I'd like to hear
        > what you've got to say.
        ?! No comment.

        Otherwise, it would be best to drop the RPNA
        > polemic. You're almost literally beating a dead horse.

        For someone who defended them and bent over backward to excuse them,
        yes, it would be best to drop the matter or tell others to. But I see
        lessons still to be learned and some haven't learned them. You have
        to get off the dime. Edgar asked you how you see us. You remained in the
        group until they let you go, but we were excommunicated from the body of
        Christ. So which is it?
        That's the point.
        But now you're onto something about unity and separation.
        Well, respectfully we can be so studious that we avoid the real issues.
        That's what I see and have always seen with the objections to the

        Bob S
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.