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Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous singing

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  • gmw
    Just to be more clear (the last time I said something that sounded like I disagreed with historic covenanter principles, my name appeared in an e-publication
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 2, 2007
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      Just to be more clear (the last time I said something that sounded
      like I disagreed with historic covenanter principles, my name appeared
      in an e-publication amongst a list of people abandoning the Covenanter
      movement!)... Writings from people like David Steele aren't always
      helpful for the current times, as much of what he wrote was aimed at
      people who had always practiced such-and-such, and for good reason,
      but now are beginning to abandon such-and-such, and for not good reasons.

      In other words, a piece of polemic against those scheming to abandon a
      practice like lining-out, is not the most helpful sort of document for
      convincing one why they should start lining-out if they never heard of
      it before.

      I'm for lining-out, as I think there are many good reasons for it.
      But I wouldn't start my discussion of lining-out by throwing David
      Steele at someone right off the bat!

      gmw (who lives in Cleona now, EVEN CLOSER to you!)

      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Jasper
      <jasperh98@...> wrote:
      >
      > Jerry, thank you. I appreciate your candid answer, which has
      implications. Anyone else willing to be helpful?
      >
      > Jasper
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message ----
      > From: Jerry <ragingcalvinist@...>
      > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 7:36:00 PM
      > Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous singing
      >
      > Jasper,
      >
      > When I'm in public worship, or family worship for that matter, we
      line out. The children are able to participate that way, as is my
      wife who is often holding one or more children in her lap, unable to
      hold a Psalter.
      >
      > When I sing all by my loneseome, I don't read the line first unless
      I'm trying to memorize it.
      >
      > I've not always been impressed by ~all~ of the sentiments of older
      RP's on this subject -- understand, I'm not against the practice of
      lining-out. It's just that some of the ways things have been stated
      can make it sound like a regulative principle thing or something.
      It's a charity thing is what it is.
      >
      > Lining out helps the blind guy, the little kid, the busy mom,
      participate in the singing.
      >
      > gmw.
      >
      >
      > Jasper wrote:
      > Folks, would you please advise me on whether there is varying or
      consistent practice among Covenantors today regarding "continuous
      singing" (not lining out the psalms)? And, whether practice changes
      between public and private worship. I do realize that current
      practice is not a determinant factor on what the Scriptures teach; but
      my question is prompted by some writings of some older Covenantors.
      Thanks for your help.
      >
      > Jasper
      >
      > Visit Your Group
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      > world crises.
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    • Jasper
      Please understand that I intend no difficulties for you, or for anyone here. gmw (who lives in Cleona now, EVEN CLOSER to you!) Ha! Now you re really
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 2, 2007
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        Please understand that I intend no difficulties for you, or for anyone here.

         

        "gmw (who lives in Cleona now, EVEN CLOSER to you!)"

         

        Ha!   Now you're really applying the pressure 

        Actually I was thinking about Dukes in Hershey (former G-man), somewhat central -eh?

         

        Jasper



        ----- Original Message ----
        From: gmw <ragingcalvinist@...>
        To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, November 2, 2007 10:25:12 AM
        Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous singing


        Just to be more clear (the last time I said something that sounded
        like I disagreed with historic covenanter principles, my name appeared
        in an e-publication amongst a list of people abandoning the Covenanter
        movement!).. . Writings from people like David Steele aren't always
        helpful for the current times, as much of what he wrote was aimed at
        people who had always practiced such-and-such, and for good reason,
        but now are beginning to abandon such-and-such, and for not good reasons.

        In other words, a piece of polemic against those scheming to abandon a
        practice like lining-out, is not the most helpful sort of document for
        convincing one why they should start lining-out if they never heard of
        it before.

        I'm for lining-out, as I think there are many good reasons for it.
        But I wouldn't start my discussion of lining-out by throwing David
        Steele at someone right off the bat!

        gmw (who lives in Cleona now, EVEN CLOSER to you!)

        --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, Jasper
        <jasperh98@. ..> wrote:

        >
        > Jerry, thank you. I appreciate your candid answer, which has
        implications. Anyone else willing to be helpful?
        >
        > Jasper
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: Jerry <ragingcalvinist@ ...>
        > To: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
        > Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 7:36:00 PM
        > Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous singing
        >
        > Jasper,
        >
        > When I'm in public worship, or family worship for that
        matter, we
        line out. The children are able to participate that way, as is my
        wife who is often holding one or more children in her lap, unable to
        hold a Psalter.
        >
        > When I sing all by my loneseome, I don't read the line first unless
        I'm trying to memorize it.
        >
        > I've not always been impressed by ~all~ of the sentiments of older
        RP's on this subject -- understand, I'm not against the practice of
        lining-out. It's just that some of the ways things have been stated
        can make it sound like a regulative principle thing or something.
        It's a charity thing is what it is.
        >
        > Lining out helps the blind guy, the little kid, the busy mom,
        participate in the singing.
        >
        > gmw.
        >
        >
        > Jasper wrote:
        > Folks, would you please advise me on whether there is varying or
        consistent practice among Covenantors today regarding "continuous
        singing" (not lining out the psalms)? And, whether practice changes
        between public and private worship. I do realize that current
        practice is not a determinant factor on what the Scriptures teach; but
        my question is prompted by some writings of some older Covenantors.
        Thanks for your help.
        >
        > Jasper
        >
        > Visit Your Group
        > Yahoo! News
        > Kevin Sites
        > Get coverage of
        > world crises.
        > New business?
        > Get new customers.
        > List your web site
        > in Yahoo! Search.
        > HDTV Support
        > on Yahoo! Groups
        > Help with Samsung
        > HDTVs and devices.
        >
        >
        > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail. yahoo.com
        >



        __________________________________________________
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      • Glenn Ferrell
        I grew up in the Appalachian region of Eastern Kentucky. Interestingly, the Primitive (Calvinistic) Baptists and some other groups still line out their sung
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 2, 2007
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          I grew up in the Appalachian region of Eastern Kentucky.  Interestingly, the Primitive (Calvinistic) Baptists and some other groups still line out their sung praise.  They do not sing Psalms, but the lining out sounds much like Scottish Highlanders singing Gaelic Psalmody.  Probably left over from the Ulster Scots who settled this region.  These folks follow the tradition of their fathers without knowing why or where it is from.  If one could introduce them to the Psalms, I wonder if they'd take to them.
           
          Glenn

          J. Glenn Ferrell, Pastor, Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian Church, Boise, Idaho   http://sermonaudio.com/reformationidaho



          To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
          From: ragingcalvinist@...
          Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 14:25:12 +0000
          Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous singing


          Just to be more clear (the last time I said something that sounded
          like I disagreed with historic covenanter principles, my name appeared
          in an e-publication amongst a list of people abandoning the Covenanter
          movement!).. . Writings from people like David Steele aren't always
          helpful for the current times, as much of what he wrote was aimed at
          people who had always practiced such-and-such, and for good reason,
          but now are beginning to abandon such-and-such, and for not good reasons.

          In other words, a piece of polemic against those scheming to abandon a
          practice like lining-out, is not the most helpful sort of document for
          convincing one why they should start lining-out if they never heard of
          it before.

          I'm for lining-out, as I think there are many good reasons for it.
          But I wouldn't start my discussion of lining-out by throwing David
          Steele at someone right off the bat!

          gmw (who lives in Cleona now, EVEN CLOSER to you!)

          --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, Jasper
          <jasperh98@. ..> wrote:
          >
          > Jerry, thank you. I appreciate your candid answer, which has
          implications. Anyone else willing to be helpful?
          >
          > Jasper
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message ----
          > From: Jerry <ragingcalvinist@ ...>
          > To: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
          > Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 7:36:00 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous singing
          >
          > Jasper,
          >
          > When I'm in public worship, or family worship for that matter, we
          line out. The children are able to participate that way, as is my
          wife who is often holding one or more children in her lap, unable to
          hold a Psalter.
          >
          > When I sing all by my loneseome, I don't read the line first unless
          I'm trying to memorize it.
          >
          > I've not always been impressed by ~all~ of the sentiments of older
          RP's on this subject -- understand, I'm not against the practice of
          lining-out. It's just that some of the ways things have been stated
          can make it sound like a regulative principle thing or something.
          It's a charity thing is what it is.
          >
          > Lining out helps the blind guy, the little kid, the busy mom,
          participate in the singing.
          >
          > gmw.
          >
          >
          > Jasper wrote:
          > Folks, would you please advise me on whether there is varying or
          consistent practice among Covenantors today regarding "continuous
          singing" (not lining out the psalms)? And, whether practice changes
          between public and private worship. I do realize that current
          practice is not a determinant factor on what the Scriptures teach; but
          my question is prompted by some writings of some older Covenantors.
          Thanks for your help.
          >
          > Jasper
          >
          > Visit Your Group
          > Yahoo! News
          > Kevin Sites
          > Get coverage of
          > world crises.
          > New business?
          > Get new customers.
          > List your web site
          > in Yahoo! Search.
          > HDTV Support
          > on Yahoo! Groups
          > Help with Samsung
          > HDTVs and devices.
          >
          >
          > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail. yahoo.com
          >


        • Jerry
          Jasper, I NEVER thought you meant any difficulties... and anyone who says you do is gonna get a stern talking to from me. (oh, and Dukes sounds good to me.
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 2, 2007
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            Jasper,

            I NEVER thought you meant any difficulties... and anyone who says you do is gonna get a stern talking to from me.

            (oh, and Dukes sounds good to me.  When shall we look to do this?)

            gmw

            Jasper wrote:
            Please understand that I intend no difficulties for you, or for anyone here.

             

            "gmw (who lives in Cleona now, EVEN CLOSER to you!)"

             

            Ha!   Now you're really applying the pressure 

            Actually I was thinking about Dukes in Hershey (former G-man), somewhat central -eh?

             

            Jasper



            ----- Original Message ----
            From: gmw <ragingcalvinist@ verizon.net>
            To: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
            Sent: Friday, November 2, 2007 10:25:12 AM
            Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous singing


            Just to be more clear (the last time I said something that sounded
            like I disagreed with historic covenanter principles, my name appeared
            in an e-publication amongst a list of people abandoning the Covenanter
            movement!).. . Writings from people like David Steele aren't always
            helpful for the current times, as much of what he wrote was aimed at
            people who had always practiced such-and-such, and for good reason,
            but now are beginning to abandon such-and-such, and for not good reasons.

            In other words, a piece of polemic against those scheming to abandon a
            practice like lining-out, is not the most helpful sort of document for
            convincing one why they should start lining-out if they never heard of
            it before.

            I'm for lining-out, as I think there are many good reasons for it.
            But I wouldn't start my discussion of lining-out by throwing David
            Steele at someone right off the bat!

            gmw (who lives in Cleona now, EVEN CLOSER to you!)

            --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, Jasper
            <jasperh98@. ..> wrote:
            >
            > Jerry, thank you. I appreciate your candid answer, which has
            implications. Anyone else willing to be helpful?
            >
            > Jasper
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message ----
            > From: Jerry <ragingcalvinist@ ...>
            > To: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
            > Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 7:36:00 PM
            > Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous singing
            >
            > Jasper,
            >
            > When I'm in public worship, or family worship for that matter, we
            line out. The children are able to participate that way, as is my
            wife who is often holding one or more children in her lap, unable to
            hold a Psalter.
            >
            > When I sing all by my loneseome, I don't read the line first unless
            I'm trying to memorize it.
            >
            > I've not always been impressed by ~all~ of the sentiments of older
            RP's on this subject -- understand, I'm not against the practice of
            lining-out. It's just that some of the ways things have been stated
            can make it sound like a regulative principle thing or something.
            It's a charity thing is what it is.
            >
            > Lining out helps the blind guy, the little kid, the busy mom,
            participate in the singing.
            >
            > gmw.
            >
            >
            > Jasper wrote:
            > Folks, would you please advise me on whether there is varying or
            consistent practice among Covenantors today regarding "continuous
            singing" (not lining out the psalms)? And, whether practice changes
            between public and private worship. I do realize that current
            practice is not a determinant factor on what the Scriptures teach; but
            my question is prompted by some writings of some older Covenantors.
            Thanks for your help.
            >
            > Jasper
            >
            > Visit Your Group
            > Yahoo! News
            > Kevin Sites
            > Get coverage of
            > world crises.
            > New business?
            > Get new customers.
            > List your web site
            > in Yahoo! Search.
            > HDTV Support
            > on Yahoo! Groups
            > Help with Samsung
            > HDTVs and devices.
            >
            >
            > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > http://mail. yahoo.com
            >



            ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            http://mail. yahoo.com

          • gmw
            Wow, I did not know this. Thanks for the info, Glenn. As a tie-together, there was a recent post of interest in the Songs of Zion Psalmody group
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 2, 2007
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              Wow, I did not know this. Thanks for the info, Glenn.

              As a tie-together, there was a recent post of interest in the Songs of
              Zion Psalmody group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SongsofZion/ run by
              Rev. Ferrell, pointing to a article about the accuracy of the Scottish
              Metrical Psalter:
              http://www.reformation-scotland.org.uk/articles/development-of-scottish-psalter.php

              gmw.

              --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Ferrell
              <jglennferrell@...> wrote:
              >
              > I grew up in the Appalachian region of Eastern Kentucky.
              Interestingly, the Primitive (Calvinistic) Baptists and some other
              groups still line out their sung praise. They do not sing Psalms, but
              the lining out sounds much like Scottish Highlanders singing Gaelic
              Psalmody. Probably left over from the Ulster Scots who settled this
              region. These folks follow the tradition of their fathers without
              knowing why or where it is from. If one could introduce them to the
              Psalms, I wonder if they'd take to them.
              >
              > GlennJ. Glenn Ferrell, Pastor, Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian
              Church, Boise, Idaho http://sermonaudio.com/reformationidaho
              >
              >
              > To: covenantedreformationclub@...: ragingcalvinist@...: Fri, 2 Nov
              2007 14:25:12 +0000Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous
              singing
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Just to be more clear (the last time I said something that
              soundedlike I disagreed with historic covenanter principles, my name
              appearedin an e-publication amongst a list of people abandoning the
              Covenantermovement!)... Writings from people like David Steele aren't
              alwayshelpful for the current times, as much of what he wrote was
              aimed atpeople who had always practiced such-and-such, and for good
              reason,but now are beginning to abandon such-and-such, and for not
              good reasons.In other words, a piece of polemic against those scheming
              to abandon apractice like lining-out, is not the most helpful sort of
              document forconvincing one why they should start lining-out if they
              never heard ofit before.I'm for lining-out, as I think there are many
              good reasons for it. But I wouldn't start my discussion of lining-out
              by throwing DavidSteele at someone right off the bat!gmw (who lives in
              Cleona now, EVEN CLOSER to you!)--- In
              covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Jasper<jasperh98@> wrote:>>
              Jerry, thank you. I appreciate your candid answer, which
              hasimplications. Anyone else willing to be helpful?> > Jasper> > >
              ----- Original Message ----> From: Jerry <ragingcalvinist@>> To:
              covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 1,
              2007 7:36:00 PM> Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous
              singing> > Jasper,> > When I'm in public worship, or family worship
              for that matter, weline out. The children are able to participate that
              way, as is mywife who is often holding one or more children in her
              lap, unable tohold a Psalter. > > When I sing all by my loneseome, I
              don't read the line first unlessI'm trying to memorize it.> > I've not
              always been impressed by ~all~ of the sentiments of olderRP's on this
              subject -- understand, I'm not against the practice oflining-out. It's
              just that some of the ways things have been statedcan make it sound
              like a regulative principle thing or something. It's a charity thing
              is what it is.> > Lining out helps the blind guy, the little kid, the
              busy mom,participate in the singing.> > gmw.> > > Jasper wrote: >
              Folks, would you please advise me on whether there is varying
              orconsistent practice among Covenantors today regarding
              "continuoussinging" (not lining out the psalms)? And, whether practice
              changesbetween public and private worship. I do realize that
              currentpractice is not a determinant factor on what the Scriptures
              teach; butmy question is prompted by some writings of some older
              Covenantors. Thanks for your help.> > Jasper> > Visit Your Group >
              Yahoo! News> Kevin Sites> Get coverage of> world crises.> New
              business?> Get new customers.> List your web site> in Yahoo! Search.>
              HDTV Support> on Yahoo! Groups> Help with Samsung> HDTVs and devices.
              > > > __________________________________________________> Do You
              Yahoo!?> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
              around > http://mail.yahoo.com>
              >
            • bob_suden
              ... groups still line out their sung praise. They do not sing Psalms, . . . . If one could introduce them to the Psalms, I wonder if they d take to them. ...
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 6, 2007
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                --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Ferrell
                <jglennferrell@...> wrote:
                >
                > Interestingly, the Primitive (Calvinistic) Baptists and some other
                groups still line out their sung praise. They do not sing Psalms, . . .
                . If one could introduce them to the Psalms, I wonder if they'd take to
                them.

                --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "gmw"
                <ragingcalvinist@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Writings from people like David Steele aren't always
                > helpful for the current times . . ..

                Greetings Glen and Gerry,

                In the long run, I don't think the Primitive Baptists would take to the
                psalms because it would clash too much with the anaBaptist
                mindset/theology and a NT Book of Acts church. But maybe on the other
                hand, they could put up with the inconsistency of it.

                As for Steele, doesn't he make the jump from lining out being a mere
                circumstance as it is in the Westminster Directory to actually being a
                requirement in public worship, i.e. continuous singing is sin (even
                though he didn't call a meeting of the Session of the RPA General
                Meeting and make an official binding pronouncement on it)?

                cordially
                Bob S
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