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continuous singing

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  • Jasper
    Folks, would you please advise me on whether there is varying or consistent practice among Covenantors today regarding continuous singing (not lining out the
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 1, 2007
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      Folks, would you please advise me on whether there is varying or consistent practice among Covenantors today regarding "continuous singing" (not lining out the psalms)?  And, whether practice changes between public and private worship.  I do realize that current practice is not a determinant factor on what the Scriptures teach; but my question is prompted by some writings of some older Covenantors.  Thanks for your help.
       
      Jasper
       

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    • Jerry
      Jasper, When I m in public worship, or family worship for that matter, we line out. The children are able to participate that way, as is my wife who is often
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 1, 2007
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        Jasper,

        When I'm in public worship, or family worship for that matter, we line out.  The children are able to participate that way, as is my wife who is often holding one or more children in her lap, unable to hold a Psalter. 

        When I sing all by my loneseome, I don't read the line first unless I'm trying to memorize it.

        I've not always been impressed by ~all~ of the sentiments of older RP's on this subject -- understand, I'm not against the practice of lining-out.  It's just that some of the ways things have been stated can make it sound like a regulative principle thing or something.  It's a charity thing is what it is.

        Lining out helps the blind guy, the little kid, the busy mom, participate in the singing.

        gmw.


        Jasper wrote:
        Folks, would you please advise me on whether there is varying or consistent practice among Covenantors today regarding "continuous singing" (not lining out the psalms)?  And, whether practice changes between public and private worship.  I do realize that current practice is not a determinant factor on what the Scriptures teach; but my question is prompted by some writings of some older Covenantors.  Thanks for your help.
         
        Jasper
         

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      • Jasper
        Jerry, thank you. I appreciate your candid answer, which has implications. Anyone else willing to be helpful? Jasper ... From: Jerry
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 2, 2007
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          Jerry, thank you.  I appreciate your candid answer, which has implications.  Anyone else willing to be helpful?
           
          Jasper
           
           
          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Jerry <ragingcalvinist@...>
          To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 7:36:00 PM
          Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous singing

          Jasper,

          When I'm in public worship, or family worship for that matter, we line out.  The children are able to participate that way, as is my wife who is often holding one or more children in her lap, unable to hold a Psalter. 

          When I sing all by my loneseome, I don't read the line first unless I'm trying to memorize it.

          I've not always been impressed by ~all~ of the sentiments of older RP's on this subject -- understand, I'm not against the practice of lining-out.  It's just that some of the ways things have been stated can make it sound like a regulative principle thing or something.  It's a charity thing is what it is.

          Lining out helps the blind guy, the little kid, the busy mom, participate in the singing.

          gmw.


          Jasper wrote:

          Folks, would you please advise me on whether there is varying or consistent practice among Covenantors today regarding "continuous singing" (not lining out the psalms)?  And, whether practice changes between public and private worship.  I do realize that current practice is not a determinant factor on what the Scriptures teach; but my question is prompted by some writings of some older Covenantors.  Thanks for your help.
           
          Jasper
           
           
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        • gmw
          Just to be more clear (the last time I said something that sounded like I disagreed with historic covenanter principles, my name appeared in an e-publication
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 2, 2007
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            Just to be more clear (the last time I said something that sounded
            like I disagreed with historic covenanter principles, my name appeared
            in an e-publication amongst a list of people abandoning the Covenanter
            movement!)... Writings from people like David Steele aren't always
            helpful for the current times, as much of what he wrote was aimed at
            people who had always practiced such-and-such, and for good reason,
            but now are beginning to abandon such-and-such, and for not good reasons.

            In other words, a piece of polemic against those scheming to abandon a
            practice like lining-out, is not the most helpful sort of document for
            convincing one why they should start lining-out if they never heard of
            it before.

            I'm for lining-out, as I think there are many good reasons for it.
            But I wouldn't start my discussion of lining-out by throwing David
            Steele at someone right off the bat!

            gmw (who lives in Cleona now, EVEN CLOSER to you!)

            --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Jasper
            <jasperh98@...> wrote:
            >
            > Jerry, thank you. I appreciate your candid answer, which has
            implications. Anyone else willing to be helpful?
            >
            > Jasper
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message ----
            > From: Jerry <ragingcalvinist@...>
            > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 7:36:00 PM
            > Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous singing
            >
            > Jasper,
            >
            > When I'm in public worship, or family worship for that matter, we
            line out. The children are able to participate that way, as is my
            wife who is often holding one or more children in her lap, unable to
            hold a Psalter.
            >
            > When I sing all by my loneseome, I don't read the line first unless
            I'm trying to memorize it.
            >
            > I've not always been impressed by ~all~ of the sentiments of older
            RP's on this subject -- understand, I'm not against the practice of
            lining-out. It's just that some of the ways things have been stated
            can make it sound like a regulative principle thing or something.
            It's a charity thing is what it is.
            >
            > Lining out helps the blind guy, the little kid, the busy mom,
            participate in the singing.
            >
            > gmw.
            >
            >
            > Jasper wrote:
            > Folks, would you please advise me on whether there is varying or
            consistent practice among Covenantors today regarding "continuous
            singing" (not lining out the psalms)? And, whether practice changes
            between public and private worship. I do realize that current
            practice is not a determinant factor on what the Scriptures teach; but
            my question is prompted by some writings of some older Covenantors.
            Thanks for your help.
            >
            > Jasper
            >
            > Visit Your Group
            > Yahoo! News
            > Kevin Sites
            > Get coverage of
            > world crises.
            > New business?
            > Get new customers.
            > List your web site
            > in Yahoo! Search.
            > HDTV Support
            > on Yahoo! Groups
            > Help with Samsung
            > HDTVs and devices.
            >
            >
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            > http://mail.yahoo.com
            >
          • Jasper
            Please understand that I intend no difficulties for you, or for anyone here. gmw (who lives in Cleona now, EVEN CLOSER to you!) Ha! Now you re really
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 2, 2007
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              Please understand that I intend no difficulties for you, or for anyone here.

               

              "gmw (who lives in Cleona now, EVEN CLOSER to you!)"

               

              Ha!   Now you're really applying the pressure 

              Actually I was thinking about Dukes in Hershey (former G-man), somewhat central -eh?

               

              Jasper



              ----- Original Message ----
              From: gmw <ragingcalvinist@...>
              To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, November 2, 2007 10:25:12 AM
              Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous singing


              Just to be more clear (the last time I said something that sounded
              like I disagreed with historic covenanter principles, my name appeared
              in an e-publication amongst a list of people abandoning the Covenanter
              movement!).. . Writings from people like David Steele aren't always
              helpful for the current times, as much of what he wrote was aimed at
              people who had always practiced such-and-such, and for good reason,
              but now are beginning to abandon such-and-such, and for not good reasons.

              In other words, a piece of polemic against those scheming to abandon a
              practice like lining-out, is not the most helpful sort of document for
              convincing one why they should start lining-out if they never heard of
              it before.

              I'm for lining-out, as I think there are many good reasons for it.
              But I wouldn't start my discussion of lining-out by throwing David
              Steele at someone right off the bat!

              gmw (who lives in Cleona now, EVEN CLOSER to you!)

              --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, Jasper
              <jasperh98@. ..> wrote:

              >
              > Jerry, thank you. I appreciate your candid answer, which has
              implications. Anyone else willing to be helpful?
              >
              > Jasper
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: Jerry <ragingcalvinist@ ...>
              > To: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
              > Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 7:36:00 PM
              > Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous singing
              >
              > Jasper,
              >
              > When I'm in public worship, or family worship for that
              matter, we
              line out. The children are able to participate that way, as is my
              wife who is often holding one or more children in her lap, unable to
              hold a Psalter.
              >
              > When I sing all by my loneseome, I don't read the line first unless
              I'm trying to memorize it.
              >
              > I've not always been impressed by ~all~ of the sentiments of older
              RP's on this subject -- understand, I'm not against the practice of
              lining-out. It's just that some of the ways things have been stated
              can make it sound like a regulative principle thing or something.
              It's a charity thing is what it is.
              >
              > Lining out helps the blind guy, the little kid, the busy mom,
              participate in the singing.
              >
              > gmw.
              >
              >
              > Jasper wrote:
              > Folks, would you please advise me on whether there is varying or
              consistent practice among Covenantors today regarding "continuous
              singing" (not lining out the psalms)? And, whether practice changes
              between public and private worship. I do realize that current
              practice is not a determinant factor on what the Scriptures teach; but
              my question is prompted by some writings of some older Covenantors.
              Thanks for your help.
              >
              > Jasper
              >
              > Visit Your Group
              > Yahoo! News
              > Kevin Sites
              > Get coverage of
              > world crises.
              > New business?
              > Get new customers.
              > List your web site
              > in Yahoo! Search.
              > HDTV Support
              > on Yahoo! Groups
              > Help with Samsung
              > HDTVs and devices.
              >
              >
              > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > http://mail. yahoo.com
              >



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            • Glenn Ferrell
              I grew up in the Appalachian region of Eastern Kentucky. Interestingly, the Primitive (Calvinistic) Baptists and some other groups still line out their sung
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 2, 2007
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                I grew up in the Appalachian region of Eastern Kentucky.  Interestingly, the Primitive (Calvinistic) Baptists and some other groups still line out their sung praise.  They do not sing Psalms, but the lining out sounds much like Scottish Highlanders singing Gaelic Psalmody.  Probably left over from the Ulster Scots who settled this region.  These folks follow the tradition of their fathers without knowing why or where it is from.  If one could introduce them to the Psalms, I wonder if they'd take to them.
                 
                Glenn

                J. Glenn Ferrell, Pastor, Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian Church, Boise, Idaho   http://sermonaudio.com/reformationidaho



                To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                From: ragingcalvinist@...
                Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 14:25:12 +0000
                Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous singing


                Just to be more clear (the last time I said something that sounded
                like I disagreed with historic covenanter principles, my name appeared
                in an e-publication amongst a list of people abandoning the Covenanter
                movement!).. . Writings from people like David Steele aren't always
                helpful for the current times, as much of what he wrote was aimed at
                people who had always practiced such-and-such, and for good reason,
                but now are beginning to abandon such-and-such, and for not good reasons.

                In other words, a piece of polemic against those scheming to abandon a
                practice like lining-out, is not the most helpful sort of document for
                convincing one why they should start lining-out if they never heard of
                it before.

                I'm for lining-out, as I think there are many good reasons for it.
                But I wouldn't start my discussion of lining-out by throwing David
                Steele at someone right off the bat!

                gmw (who lives in Cleona now, EVEN CLOSER to you!)

                --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, Jasper
                <jasperh98@. ..> wrote:
                >
                > Jerry, thank you. I appreciate your candid answer, which has
                implications. Anyone else willing to be helpful?
                >
                > Jasper
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message ----
                > From: Jerry <ragingcalvinist@ ...>
                > To: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
                > Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 7:36:00 PM
                > Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous singing
                >
                > Jasper,
                >
                > When I'm in public worship, or family worship for that matter, we
                line out. The children are able to participate that way, as is my
                wife who is often holding one or more children in her lap, unable to
                hold a Psalter.
                >
                > When I sing all by my loneseome, I don't read the line first unless
                I'm trying to memorize it.
                >
                > I've not always been impressed by ~all~ of the sentiments of older
                RP's on this subject -- understand, I'm not against the practice of
                lining-out. It's just that some of the ways things have been stated
                can make it sound like a regulative principle thing or something.
                It's a charity thing is what it is.
                >
                > Lining out helps the blind guy, the little kid, the busy mom,
                participate in the singing.
                >
                > gmw.
                >
                >
                > Jasper wrote:
                > Folks, would you please advise me on whether there is varying or
                consistent practice among Covenantors today regarding "continuous
                singing" (not lining out the psalms)? And, whether practice changes
                between public and private worship. I do realize that current
                practice is not a determinant factor on what the Scriptures teach; but
                my question is prompted by some writings of some older Covenantors.
                Thanks for your help.
                >
                > Jasper
                >
                > Visit Your Group
                > Yahoo! News
                > Kevin Sites
                > Get coverage of
                > world crises.
                > New business?
                > Get new customers.
                > List your web site
                > in Yahoo! Search.
                > HDTV Support
                > on Yahoo! Groups
                > Help with Samsung
                > HDTVs and devices.
                >
                >
                > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > http://mail. yahoo.com
                >


              • Jerry
                Jasper, I NEVER thought you meant any difficulties... and anyone who says you do is gonna get a stern talking to from me. (oh, and Dukes sounds good to me.
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 2, 2007
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                  Jasper,

                  I NEVER thought you meant any difficulties... and anyone who says you do is gonna get a stern talking to from me.

                  (oh, and Dukes sounds good to me.  When shall we look to do this?)

                  gmw

                  Jasper wrote:
                  Please understand that I intend no difficulties for you, or for anyone here.

                   

                  "gmw (who lives in Cleona now, EVEN CLOSER to you!)"

                   

                  Ha!   Now you're really applying the pressure 

                  Actually I was thinking about Dukes in Hershey (former G-man), somewhat central -eh?

                   

                  Jasper



                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: gmw <ragingcalvinist@ verizon.net>
                  To: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
                  Sent: Friday, November 2, 2007 10:25:12 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous singing


                  Just to be more clear (the last time I said something that sounded
                  like I disagreed with historic covenanter principles, my name appeared
                  in an e-publication amongst a list of people abandoning the Covenanter
                  movement!).. . Writings from people like David Steele aren't always
                  helpful for the current times, as much of what he wrote was aimed at
                  people who had always practiced such-and-such, and for good reason,
                  but now are beginning to abandon such-and-such, and for not good reasons.

                  In other words, a piece of polemic against those scheming to abandon a
                  practice like lining-out, is not the most helpful sort of document for
                  convincing one why they should start lining-out if they never heard of
                  it before.

                  I'm for lining-out, as I think there are many good reasons for it.
                  But I wouldn't start my discussion of lining-out by throwing David
                  Steele at someone right off the bat!

                  gmw (who lives in Cleona now, EVEN CLOSER to you!)

                  --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, Jasper
                  <jasperh98@. ..> wrote:
                  >
                  > Jerry, thank you. I appreciate your candid answer, which has
                  implications. Anyone else willing to be helpful?
                  >
                  > Jasper
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message ----
                  > From: Jerry <ragingcalvinist@ ...>
                  > To: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
                  > Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 7:36:00 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous singing
                  >
                  > Jasper,
                  >
                  > When I'm in public worship, or family worship for that matter, we
                  line out. The children are able to participate that way, as is my
                  wife who is often holding one or more children in her lap, unable to
                  hold a Psalter.
                  >
                  > When I sing all by my loneseome, I don't read the line first unless
                  I'm trying to memorize it.
                  >
                  > I've not always been impressed by ~all~ of the sentiments of older
                  RP's on this subject -- understand, I'm not against the practice of
                  lining-out. It's just that some of the ways things have been stated
                  can make it sound like a regulative principle thing or something.
                  It's a charity thing is what it is.
                  >
                  > Lining out helps the blind guy, the little kid, the busy mom,
                  participate in the singing.
                  >
                  > gmw.
                  >
                  >
                  > Jasper wrote:
                  > Folks, would you please advise me on whether there is varying or
                  consistent practice among Covenantors today regarding "continuous
                  singing" (not lining out the psalms)? And, whether practice changes
                  between public and private worship. I do realize that current
                  practice is not a determinant factor on what the Scriptures teach; but
                  my question is prompted by some writings of some older Covenantors.
                  Thanks for your help.
                  >
                  > Jasper
                  >
                  > Visit Your Group
                  > Yahoo! News
                  > Kevin Sites
                  > Get coverage of
                  > world crises.
                  > New business?
                  > Get new customers.
                  > List your web site
                  > in Yahoo! Search.
                  > HDTV Support
                  > on Yahoo! Groups
                  > Help with Samsung
                  > HDTVs and devices.
                  >
                  >
                  > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > http://mail. yahoo.com
                  >



                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  http://mail. yahoo.com

                • gmw
                  Wow, I did not know this. Thanks for the info, Glenn. As a tie-together, there was a recent post of interest in the Songs of Zion Psalmody group
                  Message 8 of 9 , Nov 2, 2007
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                    Wow, I did not know this. Thanks for the info, Glenn.

                    As a tie-together, there was a recent post of interest in the Songs of
                    Zion Psalmody group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SongsofZion/ run by
                    Rev. Ferrell, pointing to a article about the accuracy of the Scottish
                    Metrical Psalter:
                    http://www.reformation-scotland.org.uk/articles/development-of-scottish-psalter.php

                    gmw.

                    --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Ferrell
                    <jglennferrell@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I grew up in the Appalachian region of Eastern Kentucky.
                    Interestingly, the Primitive (Calvinistic) Baptists and some other
                    groups still line out their sung praise. They do not sing Psalms, but
                    the lining out sounds much like Scottish Highlanders singing Gaelic
                    Psalmody. Probably left over from the Ulster Scots who settled this
                    region. These folks follow the tradition of their fathers without
                    knowing why or where it is from. If one could introduce them to the
                    Psalms, I wonder if they'd take to them.
                    >
                    > GlennJ. Glenn Ferrell, Pastor, Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian
                    Church, Boise, Idaho http://sermonaudio.com/reformationidaho
                    >
                    >
                    > To: covenantedreformationclub@...: ragingcalvinist@...: Fri, 2 Nov
                    2007 14:25:12 +0000Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous
                    singing
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Just to be more clear (the last time I said something that
                    soundedlike I disagreed with historic covenanter principles, my name
                    appearedin an e-publication amongst a list of people abandoning the
                    Covenantermovement!)... Writings from people like David Steele aren't
                    alwayshelpful for the current times, as much of what he wrote was
                    aimed atpeople who had always practiced such-and-such, and for good
                    reason,but now are beginning to abandon such-and-such, and for not
                    good reasons.In other words, a piece of polemic against those scheming
                    to abandon apractice like lining-out, is not the most helpful sort of
                    document forconvincing one why they should start lining-out if they
                    never heard ofit before.I'm for lining-out, as I think there are many
                    good reasons for it. But I wouldn't start my discussion of lining-out
                    by throwing DavidSteele at someone right off the bat!gmw (who lives in
                    Cleona now, EVEN CLOSER to you!)--- In
                    covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Jasper<jasperh98@> wrote:>>
                    Jerry, thank you. I appreciate your candid answer, which
                    hasimplications. Anyone else willing to be helpful?> > Jasper> > >
                    ----- Original Message ----> From: Jerry <ragingcalvinist@>> To:
                    covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 1,
                    2007 7:36:00 PM> Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] continuous
                    singing> > Jasper,> > When I'm in public worship, or family worship
                    for that matter, weline out. The children are able to participate that
                    way, as is mywife who is often holding one or more children in her
                    lap, unable tohold a Psalter. > > When I sing all by my loneseome, I
                    don't read the line first unlessI'm trying to memorize it.> > I've not
                    always been impressed by ~all~ of the sentiments of olderRP's on this
                    subject -- understand, I'm not against the practice oflining-out. It's
                    just that some of the ways things have been statedcan make it sound
                    like a regulative principle thing or something. It's a charity thing
                    is what it is.> > Lining out helps the blind guy, the little kid, the
                    busy mom,participate in the singing.> > gmw.> > > Jasper wrote: >
                    Folks, would you please advise me on whether there is varying
                    orconsistent practice among Covenantors today regarding
                    "continuoussinging" (not lining out the psalms)? And, whether practice
                    changesbetween public and private worship. I do realize that
                    currentpractice is not a determinant factor on what the Scriptures
                    teach; butmy question is prompted by some writings of some older
                    Covenantors. Thanks for your help.> > Jasper> > Visit Your Group >
                    Yahoo! News> Kevin Sites> Get coverage of> world crises.> New
                    business?> Get new customers.> List your web site> in Yahoo! Search.>
                    HDTV Support> on Yahoo! Groups> Help with Samsung> HDTVs and devices.
                    > > > __________________________________________________> Do You
                    Yahoo!?> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                    around > http://mail.yahoo.com>
                    >
                  • bob_suden
                    ... groups still line out their sung praise. They do not sing Psalms, . . . . If one could introduce them to the Psalms, I wonder if they d take to them. ...
                    Message 9 of 9 , Nov 6, 2007
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                      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Ferrell
                      <jglennferrell@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Interestingly, the Primitive (Calvinistic) Baptists and some other
                      groups still line out their sung praise. They do not sing Psalms, . . .
                      . If one could introduce them to the Psalms, I wonder if they'd take to
                      them.

                      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "gmw"
                      <ragingcalvinist@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Writings from people like David Steele aren't always
                      > helpful for the current times . . ..

                      Greetings Glen and Gerry,

                      In the long run, I don't think the Primitive Baptists would take to the
                      psalms because it would clash too much with the anaBaptist
                      mindset/theology and a NT Book of Acts church. But maybe on the other
                      hand, they could put up with the inconsistency of it.

                      As for Steele, doesn't he make the jump from lining out being a mere
                      circumstance as it is in the Westminster Directory to actually being a
                      requirement in public worship, i.e. continuous singing is sin (even
                      though he didn't call a meeting of the Session of the RPA General
                      Meeting and make an official binding pronouncement on it)?

                      cordially
                      Bob S
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