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Re: [Covenanted Reformation] RPNA GM apology

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  • Walt Bre
    There is nothing worse for a man to speak against the testimony of a woman publically. You are obviously loved by many on this forum and so I will take your
    Message 1 of 51 , Jul 28, 2007
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      There is nothing worse for a man to speak against the
      testimony of a woman publically. You are obviously
      loved by many on this forum and so I will take your
      charges against me and leave it alone. I never said I
      was being persecuted, or suffering as the Covenanters
      once did, and I did not know you have been tortured.
      If your are (or have been) tortured for the Cause of
      Christ daily, then I will pray for you. My own life
      has nothing compared to your suffering physical harm,
      and I never intended for you to think I have been. I
      do hope that whoever has been torturing you will be
      stopped, or arrested or silenced soon. I read often
      about the persecution in foreign countries often, and
      have visited some of the suffering when I travel, so
      let's leave it as a misunderstanding if you think I
      was referring to myself, or trying to compare myself
      to your suffering. I was not.

      --- Deejay <crazy_calvinist@...> wrote:

      > As a PS to this: you think I'm dismissalbe as
      > laughable and inaffective
      > because I am sick and based on what you assume
      > (largely). Don't you be
      > so sure, of that. . Believe me, lots of folks have
      > tried dismissing me
      > or worse, , and Im still standing despite the odds
      > thanks to God.
      > You know nothing about suffering as the noble
      > Covenanters did or about
      > living a similar testimony; so please don't compare
      > yourselves with
      > those people as you basically shame their testimony
      > with your carryings
      > on; I won't bore you with the detals, but I do in a
      > very real way k now
      > what it is to suffer to the point of torture because
      > of others daily for
      > holding to the truth in part. Others here who have
      > more respect in this
      > forum than you do, know it is the truth. Hence my
      > comment about my
      > life being made a living hell by others
      > (locally--and nothing to do with
      > this subject) for holding to the truth in part. So
      > please get off your
      > haughty podium, as to put it politely, you're
      > making a fool of
      > yourself. Someone who has a testimony of suffering
      > actually has a lot
      > of influence to most folks; Not because of anything
      > in themselves, but
      > because God sustains them and upholds them despite
      > it and despite the
      > odds by the degree of suffering. So, you may find
      > it laughable, which
      > really shows alot about your lack of gumption and
      > level of assumption
      > which pardon me, seems a little arrogant.
      > ~Deejay
      > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com,
      > Walt Bre
      > <humbled.learner@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Deejay,
      > >
      > > Your comments are almost laughable if they were
      > not so
      > > sad and typical of the average person who calls
      > > themselves a Christian in this generation. This is
      > > nothing against your inability to read and
      > comprehend
      > > due to your illness, but against the judgements
      > you
      > > make based upon the obviously limited and admitted
      > > lack of details you have read on this subject.
      > >
      > > It is now very clear to me that your defense of
      > the
      > > innocent and weak who have been trampled on is
      > just
      > > coming from the kindness of your heart, and your
      > > obvious love to protect the weak. That is a
      > blessing
      > > to the church as a whole and we need more people
      > like
      > > you out there in this generation. But, I will
      > > disagree with you that making your determinations
      > > based upon the oath as a primary criteria is an
      > error.
      > >
      > > When the Presbyterians delivered the Solemn League
      > and
      > > Covenant to each home across Scotland for each
      > > signature upon the oath, those that rejected it
      > did
      > > not make it an evil document in and of itself due
      > to
      > > the testimony from them who rejected it.
      > >
      > > The oath to recognize the jurisdiction of the
      > court
      > > and the lawfulness of the church called, "RPNA GM"
      > was
      > > the basic premise.
      > >
      > > Remember, the first oath was served upon those
      > people
      > > that had formal written charges brought against
      > them
      > > from another member in our church. It was not
      > until I
      > > read some of the details on Bob's website,
      > regarding
      > > some of these private communications, was I able
      > to
      > > draw some conclusions who might have brought these
      > > charges against these people. Subsequently, in
      > flying
      > > to meet with a couple of the excommunicated, I
      > later
      > > learned of a lot more controversy that was ongoing
      > in
      > > private communication between some members, and
      > other
      > > members in our church. At no time did I know these
      > > issues were ongoing behind the scenes, and
      > certainly
      > > did not know about "The Effort" to reform our
      > church.
      > >
      > > Thus, I can only assume that one person brought
      > formal
      > > charges to the Session of the RPNA (GM) and since
      > > there was obviously a controversy over when a
      > Session
      > > could lawfully exist in Presbyterianism across
      > > international lines in an unsettled and unfixed
      > state,
      > > the oath was immediately rejected for conscience
      > sake.
      > > Some might claim they denied the oath for wrath's
      > > sake of persecution, but I expect those people
      > just
      > > want to stir up emotions. Nobody threatened
      > > persecution for anyone that did not take the oath,
      > and
      > > there was no tyrannical measures imposed. That is
      > all
      > > smoke and mirrors to get emotions fired up and
      > help
      > > those like you believe you are only protecting the
      > > weak and downtrodden. I understand you have a
      > strong
      > > desire to help those weak and innocent who have
      > been
      > > trampled on, and Presbyterian discipline is the
      > > farthest thing from most Presbyterians mind, but
      > > anyone who leads you to believe they were being
      > > persecuted by tyrants, or that they were just the
      > > innocent asking questions, is not giving you all
      > the
      > > facts at hand.
      > >
      > > You have very strong personalities in the
      > Covenanter
      > > and Presbyterian movements. You might think we are
      > > just another "sect" out there trampling on
      > people's
      > > rights, but I would not take you serious any
      > longer
      > > after what you disclosed to me below.
      > >
      > > Again, it is so typical of Christians in our
      > > generation who are just along for the ride
      > counting
      > > the days to heavenly bliss, when our forefathers
      > > throughout history have been hunted, slaughtered
      > and
      > > murdered one right after another for standing for
      > the
      > > cause of Christ. It is the one's who sit back in
      > > judgment, claiming they have been trampled on and
      > > their rights have been taken away, that
      > historically
      > > call in the hit squad to silence the testimony in
      > the
      > > name of toleration.
      > >
      > > Silencing of the testimony (e.g., the witnesses of
      > > Christ) is coming and I for one am just seeing a
      > small
      > > sample of what is coming. It is happening in
      > China,
      > > Iraq, Syria, Russia, across Europe and in many
      > parts
      > > of the world. There is no doubt the Feds have a
      > > growing list of those who will speak out against
      > evil,
      > > and my travel around the world has shown me many
      > > things about this world system. It is just wicked,
      > > and waxing worse and worse. There is no doubt
      > those
      > > who publically testify against it, and those who
      > > falsly charge us as some "cult" or "sect" are just
      > > planting the seeds to have us hunted down and
      > silence
      > > in due time. Right, it is all in the name of
      > > toleration as we have heard before!
      > >
      > > Well, I'm getting a taste of it now, and your
      > comments
      > > below give me great comfort that those who speak
      > up
      > > the most and the loudest likely will not even read
      > > what has been written except, for example, "But, I
      === message truncated ===

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    • Larry Bump
      ... OK, no worries. Thank you for the post. Larry
      Message 51 of 51 , Aug 9, 2007
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        Marie Clements wrote:
        > Hello Larry,
        > I guess that I am still upset with some of members of this group, not
        > you personally.

        OK, no worries.
        Thank you for the post.

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