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Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: New person (well, not really)!

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  • Simon Padbury
    Hi Edgar, I remember you too - thanks for the welcome and the brief. From the last two days of emails from the CovenantedReformationClub, plus a skim of the
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 27, 2007
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      Hi Edgar,
       
      I remember you too - thanks for the welcome and the brief. From the last two days of emails from the CovenantedReformationClub, plus a skim of the document Timmopussycat pointed to after I downloaded it yesterday, it seems clear whose side I should be on. But all I've seen is what I mentioned here.
       
      The truth is that the whole Covenanting movement (let alone real Christians in the wider visible church) has suffered "extraordinary circumstances" in the world, which circumstances could be pretended to justify a power-grab by those with such ambition. Two millennia of NT church history contains many instructive parallels here.
       
      Edgar, I don't know if I need to say this to you: but if you're not already, please be prayerfully concerned about any immature people who may be caught up in all this. I don't know since I'm not in there like you are, but in other situations I have known people who were not very mature or perhaps not really Christians (at least it now appears that way), who got swept up in other controversies beyond their ability to discern the truth, and then who later were sent spinning on trajectories which took them out of the Reformed faith, or into the arms of Rome or some other apostate church, or out of the visible church altogether. Isn't it terrible how so many of those churches who claim to be 'Reformed' or 'Presbyterian' undergo such internal wars? These schisms and discord among bretheren, which are set on fire by Hell, have been used to harden many people against the Reformed faith and against Christ. These people -- and not only they, but all of us -- really need to spend some time with decent, God-fearing, praying Christians who are themselves caught up among the controversy before they take such a trajectory into the arms of antichrists, in order that they have some good memories planted in their minds which testify to them that Christians aren't all bad, and don't all issue forth blood-curdling cries of "You heretick!" and "You schismatick!" against each other. (No, I'm not accusing you or anyone else here of that!) Such memories may be used by God to bring them to Himself at a later date.
       
      Kind regards,
       
      In Christ too,
       
      Simon Padbury.
      Psalm 119:132.
       
      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Ic Neltococayotl <puritanpresbyterian@...>
      To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, 26 July, 2007 11:29:56 PM
      Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: New person (well, not really)!

      Hi Simon,

      This is Edgar, I remember you.  Welcome back.  Lots has happned!

      The "RPNA-GM", of which I was a member and vocal advocate of, has excommunicated 35 individuals bet. Oct. and June(?) of this year.  Details at http://reformedveri tas.blogspot. com/

      I am one of the excommunicated.  The current posts are about one of their principal laymen that is like their proxy elder, and his M.O. and the elder's tacit and implicit consent of it, that was in part a cause for some of us to question the church govt of the "RPNA-GM" has issued a defense of their elder's actions.  It is a 83page, small font, paper.  You see the elders allow 2 or so of their laymen to put people in line in that group, he is the principal whip.  When we didn't submit to them (these two proxy elders) then we were hauled before the "court" of the "RPNA-GM" to answer charges of unspecified sin pressed by unknown accuser(s).  Again, many of us were charged with sins, that when we asked what they were, we were not told.  We also were not allowed to know our accuser(s).  The initial three groups of excommunicated people were asking questions, not accusing anyone of sin.  The later ones accused the elders of sin, justly in my view.

      So, while I have moved on, some of their number continue to post things here to keep the controversy alive. 

      There are only a few left in that group now.  Hopefully more will leave for their spiritual well-being or bene esse.

      Other than that, I dunno.  See you around Simon.

      In Christ,

      Edgar Ibarra

      visiting Berkshire RPCNA mission work


      --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, Simon Padbury <simon_padbury@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear all,
      >
      > Hello, greetings from England.
      >
      > I've joined your group CovenantedReformati onClub again. I was on this same group a few years ago, and I learned alot from it then.
      >
      > I don't know what's going on here. If there's someone here among those who know me (and I know there are), who could summarise or bring me up to date on this group's latest goings-on, please do so if you think it's wise. Not that I want to make other people's business my business - but sometimes it can be hard to learn from any series or debate if one begins listening in part way through.
      >
      > I'm looking forward to some wholesome and edifying interaction here on this group.
      >
      > Kind regards,
      >
      > Simon Padbury.
      > Psalm 119:132.
      >
      >
      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      > Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it
      > now.
      > http://uk.answers. yahoo.com/
      >




      Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today.
    • Willena Flewelling
      Hi Simon, Welcome to the group! I remember you from Deejay s list, though I don t know if I spoke up enough for you to remember me. To add to what you have
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 27, 2007
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        Hi Simon,

        Welcome to the group! I remember you from Deejay's list, though I don't know if I spoke up enough for you to remember me.

        To add to what you have said here, we need to be in prayer for the younger generation of those who were, and indeed some of those who still are, in the RPNA (GM). The teens and early twenties... they are the ones caught in the backlash of turmoil and confusion in the church and the home. I cannot tell you how many of them are wallowing in confusion, despite the efforts of their parents to keep them on an even keel. Too many of them have already not only left the reformed faith, but have seemingly turned their backs on the Lord Himself.

        Willena


        Simon Padbury wrote:
        Hi Edgar,
         
        I remember you too - thanks for the welcome and the brief. From the last two days of emails from the CovenantedReformati onClub, plus a skim of the document Timmopussycat pointed to after I downloaded it yesterday, it seems clear whose side I should be on. But all I've seen is what I mentioned here.
         
        The truth is that the whole Covenanting movement (let alone real Christians in the wider visible church) has suffered "extraordinary circumstances" in the world, which circumstances could be pretended to justify a power-grab by those with such ambition. Two millennia of NT church history contains many instructive parallels here.
         
        Edgar, I don't know if I need to say this to you: but if you're not already, please be prayerfully concerned about any immature people who may be caught up in all this. I don't know since I'm not in there like you are, but in other situations I have known people who were not very mature or perhaps not really Christians (at least it now appears that way), who got swept up in other controversies beyond their ability to discern the truth, and then who later were sent spinning on trajectories which took them out of the Reformed faith, or into the arms of Rome or some other apostate church, or out of the visible church altogether. Isn't it terrible how so many of those churches who claim to be 'Reformed' or 'Presbyterian' undergo such internal wars? These schisms and discord among bretheren, which are set on fire by Hell, have been used to harden many people against the Reformed faith and against Christ. These people -- and not only they, but all of us -- really need to spend some time with decent, God-fearing, praying Christians who are themselves caught up among the controversy before they take such a trajectory into the arms of antichrists, in order that they have some good memories planted in their minds which testify to them that Christians aren't all bad, and don't all issue forth blood-curdling cries of "You heretick!" and "You schismatick! " against each other. (No, I'm not accusing you or anyone else here of that!) Such memories may be used by God to bring them to Himself at a later date.
         
        Kind regards,
         
        In Christ too,
         
        Simon Padbury.
        Psalm 119:132.

      • simon_padbury
        Hi Willena, No, sorry, I don t recall you emailing anything on Deejay s list (but I may have missed it, as I recieve daily digest and I don t get round to
        Message 3 of 3 , Jul 30, 2007
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          Hi Willena,

          No, sorry, I don't recall you emailing anything on Deejay's list (but
          I may have missed it, as I recieve 'daily digest' and I don't get
          round to reading everything).

          > To add to what you have said here, we need to be in prayer for the
          > younger generation of those who were, and indeed some of those who
          still
          > are, in the RPNA (GM). The teens and early twenties... they are the
          ones
          > caught in the backlash of turmoil and confusion in the church and
          the
          > home. I cannot tell you how many of them are wallowing in
          confusion,
          > despite the efforts of their parents to keep them on an even keel.
          Too
          > many of them have already not only left the reformed faith, but
          have
          > seemingly turned their backs on the Lord Himself.
          >

          That's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about, and not only
          youngsters but the older young-in-the-faith newcomers too.

          It's not nice being caught up in this kind of stuff, whatever the
          controversy is about. Sadly, I know how it feels, and I know how it
          can affect people. It's so tempting (even for the Lord's people) to
          flip out and respond, "Ack! Presbyterians behaving badly! Stuff the
          whole lot of you -- I'm getting outa here!" And as we all know, it
          happens in other church denominations from time to time too.

          How different all this is from, "Come with us, and we will do thee
          good." I blame the flesh and the Devil.

          Once upon a time it fell to me to try to counsel someone fleeing from
          a situation like this when I encountered him on the run, as it were.
          I sincerely regret not having succeeded in retaining that person in
          any church I would consider an OK place to attend. It's still a
          matter of prayer to me that, if he belongs to the Good Shepherd, He
          will bring him back to Himself. Plus I personally know of other folk
          who have taken a similar flight, from other ecclesiatical
          battlefields, wherein some of the Lord's people have been
          instrumental in putting them off the faith -- but I hope, only
          temporarily.

          Recently, I found myself attempting to defend God for His allowing
          some of His people to be kicked out of the visible church in this way
          (or, out of the part(s) of the visible church whose beliefs and
          practices we would all agree with), and even fall into a backsliding
          state wherein they stopped calling themselves Christians -- but
          hopefully, only for a time. A hyper-Calvinist argued vehemently
          against this, and called me unregenerate for thinking that among such
          wanderers, there could be really saved, though hurting, confused
          people. The hyper-Calvinist alleged that my thinking (and hoping, and
          praying) for such wanderers really are (or, could be) Christians, was
          a denial of the doctrine of the perseverence of the saints; and
          therefore, said he, I don't believe in the true gospel. But it is
          precisely because of my firm belief in the perseverence -- and
          preservation -- of the saints that I still hope and pray for these
          people in the way that I do.

          I hope you find something useful in what I have said here.

          Kind regards,

          Simon.
          Psalm 119:132.
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