Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Two or More Are Gathered
Fortunately, as a member of the RPNA (GM) I am able to
balance both sides of the controversy. I read
everything that is posted on Bob's site, as well as am
still mostly copied on most of the comments directed
toward the Elders. It is understandable that people
believe those of us left in the RPNA (GM) don't fully
understand all the problems that took place, and that
is why I do read all the posts on Bob's site as well
as those documents that come through to the Elders.
As I've said many times, and gave as my primary reason
for withdrawing from multiple heated discussions on
this forum, is that seeking a public trial for or
against our Elders is not in my interest. It makes
for good controversy, but I know that I will never
prevail (or win as you say) in changing minds on this
Further, I have stayed away from the forum until Bob
posted what I thought was directed at me alleging
something I did not believe was accurate. I just
wanted to address him on the forum where he posted it
because one person wrote me saying it was here and
asked if I was the one he referred to in the email.
If that person thought he was talking about me, I felt
others might also get the same impression so rather
than let is grow into a conspiracy of sorts, or let
people think I was behind the emails, I wanted to
address it immediately.
Indeed, if one believes the controversy of an
extraordinary session is ever going away, and unity
will come to the Presbyterian church through the
RPCNA, then great. I've read a lot of various RPCNA
websites and it seems that most are open to differing
doctrines as defined locally. I think that is just
fine, and the way you folks have all local, ordinary
Sessions is wonderful. I hope the RPCNA continues to
grow as it appears it has been over the years, and
that your national leadership can continue to uphold
the standards that our forefathers have set.
We unfortunately have dealt with lots of issues
ranging from degrees of modesty, lawfulness of
tattoos, headcoverings, common cup vs. individual
cups, occasional hearing, birth control, marriage of
related parties and obviously the distinctions of
whether an Presbytery (RPNA) or Session (RPNA-GM) can
be lawful outside of local boundaries. Additionally,
due to the strong personalities in our church, we
require our Eldres to generally write everything and
publish it so the world can see how all these issues
need to be dealt with one right after another.
Obviously, we have failed miserably and this public
forum is a good place to come and see just how we have
not met expections. Fortunately, in the minds of
some, I suspect they can have comfort in knowing that
Tyrants will come and go in the church, and look to
the RPCNA, OPC and other churches that don't publish
their positions on alot of these more complex issues.
Larry, may I ask you if you have published anything on
any rulings with your local church that I could read?
I've got to believe your Session has dealt with
various issues and that your opinions have been
published, and are open for inspection by your
Presbytery and congregation. Would you be able to
provide me with any of these decisions so that I could
read them for myself?
The reason I posted the question below was because I
think the question Bob has identified is a good one.
From my research, it has never been dealt with in the
Presbyterian church outside of what Pastor Price
quoted in the Grand Debate. Bob has a contrary
opinion and there is absolutely nothing wrong with a
contrary opinion. Bob sources Scripture and so does
Pastor Price. I'm sure you have your own opinion as a
Ruling Elder, and although not of direct impact on
your local congregation since you are ordinary and
fixed, I posed the question because it is at the core
of our controversy. Or, at least one of the cores, as
we know there are many cores to this controversy, but
this is one I personally find interesting to me.
So, I direct the question to you as a Ruling Elder.
Your are called to testify and teach us church
government in Christ's church. As a ruling Elder you
have been given grace beyond myself in your calling
and I ask you what is your scriptural opinion on the
question. Share it with me if you like.
I for one would love to hear your opinion.
Your brother in Christ,
--- Larry Bump <lbump@...> wrote:
> humbled.learner wrote:____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat?
> > I would like to have the opinions of anyone
> OUTSIDE the RPNA (GM), or
> > those who were excommunicated, to provide any
> additional reference
> > material using scripture, history or reason, as to
> what the word
> > "gathered" means.
> Why do you keep posting questions or challenges to
> this list? Every
> time, as you begin to lose the argument, you state
> that you won and will
> no longer respond to our messages. So, given this
> history, why do you
Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
- --- In email@example.com, alcunius
> It does not seem that clear to me by what Winzer wrote.
> This same Matthew Winzer that your speaking of seems to have some
> confusion on Deduction and Induction at the same Board different
> inductive>Tim-Granted Mr. Winzer errs in his understanding of logic and perhaps
> And at the same web board he seems to be defending the Perpetual
> Virginity of Mary
in his understanding of whether or not Mary remained virgin after the
birth of Jesus, but these errors are irrelevant if one is questioning
his readings of the Divines he cites.
Why do you think Winzer does not make his case?
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Chris Coldwell"Winzer
> <naphtali@> wrote:
> > This has been a problem for some time. For instance, Matthew
> > clearly demonstrates a problem in Barrow's CRD in comprehending
> > Rutherford (and others) correctly, specifically on the "being" vs.
> > "well-being" of the church.
> > http://www.puritanboard.com/showthread.php?t=14397
> > Sincerely,
> > Chris Coldwell
> > Naphtali Press http://www.naphtali.com
> > The Confessional Presbyterian journal http://www.cpjournal.com
> > Member Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA)
> > --- In email@example.com, Larry Bump
> > lbump@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > Makes one wonder how they read these books...
> > >
> > > Indeed. And if this is an honest example of the reading
> > > and exegesis they apply to books in order to come up with a
> > self-serving
> > > argument, one must wonder if that "style" may have been applied
> > > elsewhere, as well.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >