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Re: New Topic: Our Children.

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  • Deejay
    I have a thought on this a bit, but not sure if it s valid or not. But, you said: What if God doesn t provide? What would it mean? If He doesn t provide does
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 5, 2007
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      I have a thought on this a bit, but not sure if it's valid or not.  But, you said:

       

      What if God doesn't provide? What would it mean? If He doesn't provide does it mean that our convictions are wrong and we're just suffering the just desserts of being so exclusive?

       

      I think the annals of Christian history say much about this.  Right from Christ down to the apostles, down to the martyrs.  I don't think its anything to do per se, (only as far as Scripture predicts a life of want and sorrow, for Christians) with being too exclusive,  in the way you mean. But I do think godliness,  comes at a price, whether its Apostles, the martyrs or the pinncacle of Godliness in Christ himself, just for being in the world, but being different to the world—and lets face it gel, mainstream Christianity, can be and often is very liberal and  man centred—and because of how extreme it can be, I really don't think two can walk together very well, at least in my experience, because they disagree about so much.  I know its nothing to do with the children thing, I just speaking about the exclusivity aspect.

       

      ~Deejay


      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Wilkinson" <gpyp@...> wrote:
      >
      > Is anyone else here interested in discussing the peculiar temptations/trials
      > of covenanter children (esp. the older ones) and the peculiar
      > temptations/trials for covenanter parents that flow from them? We have
      > various struggles in our family due to being covenanters and I have noticed
      > over time that many covenanter families seem to struggle to stay covenanters
      > at least in part because of the state of their children or perhaps their
      > fears for their children if they don't "do something" else. For instance, we
      > have older children now who are interested in marrying-they can't just trot
      > down to the local church hoping to meet a potential mate. That is a trial
      > for them and for us as parents. It is a trial that, given time, could very
      > easily turn into a temptation to compromise or altogether abandon our
      > principles in search of relief. There is temptation to fear for both our
      > children and us. What if God doesn't provide? What would it mean? If He
      > doesn't provide does it mean that our convictions are wrong and we're just
      > suffering the just desserts of being so exclusive? These and many other
      > things are what I'd like to see discussed here.
      >
      >
      >
      > I am particularly interested in exploring these questions:
      >
      >
      >
      > Philosophically how should we view the "extra" trials that our children
      > endure and that we endure (i.e. above mainstream Christianity) because of
      > them? I think how we view those trials is critical.
      >
      > How can we increase our own patience in trials that we may be better
      > equipped to help our children in theirs?
      >
      > How can we practically help our children in order to minimize their
      > temptations?
      >
      >
      >
      > Anyone up for it? Perhaps we can help or encourage one another.
      >
      >
      >
      > Susan
      >
    • Tim Cunningham
      ... temptations/trials of covenanter children (esp. the older ones) and the peculiar temptations/trials for covenanter parents that flow from them? We have
      Message 2 of 2 , Jun 5, 2007
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        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Susan
        Wilkinson" <gpyp@...> wrote:
        >
        > Is anyone else here interested in discussing the peculiar
        temptations/trials of covenanter children (esp. the older ones) and
        the peculiar temptations/trials for covenanter parents that flow from
        them? We have various struggles in our family due to being
        covenanters and I have noticed over time that many covenanter
        families seem to struggle to stay covenanters at least in part
        because of the state of their children or perhaps their fears for
        their children if they don't "do something" else. For instance, we
        have older children now who are interested in marrying-they can't
        just trot down to the local church hoping to meet a potential mate.
        That is a trial for them and for us as parents. It is a trial that,
        given time, could very easily turn into a temptation to compromise or
        altogether abandon our principles in search of relief. There is
        temptation to fear for both our children and us. What if God doesn't
        provide? What would it mean? If He doesn't provide does it mean that
        our convictions are wrong and we're just suffering the just desserts
        of being so exclusive? These and many other things are what I'd like
        > to see discussed here.
        >
        Tim comments-As you know, I am no covenanter. But I did stay single
        for a very long time before marrying and that was largely because I
        was involved in a church community that I then thought was
        more "principled" than other churches, and that committment poisoned
        what, seen in hindsight, could have been a workable Christian
        marriage. It seems to me that some of the lessons I learned from that
        time may be helpful. These are:

        First,recognize if your children have not been given the gift of
        singleness, they are biblically commanded to seek a mate (1 Cor.7:9)
        That is explicit scriptural command. While it is also a plain
        scriptural statement that they are Scripturally restricted to seeking
        a mate among believers, Scripture records no other limitations that
        explicitly limit the prospective spouse pool.

        Seocond, if you premise that they must limit their choices within the
        Christian community, (and we all do so in one way or another) you
        must be utterly certain that the considerations you put forward to
        narrow the field are, in themselves, either explicitly scriptural
        statements outlining desirable conduct in other contexts (I hope
        nobody would recommend marrying a lazybones) or statements which
        follow by good and necessary consequence from the biblical data.

        Now the situations faced by covenanter children and myself were both
        of this latter sort. And I must note that both situations provide an
        opportunity as well as a difficulty.

        When we think that the pool of potential Christian spouses is limited
        by a deduction from biblical data, we have the responsibility and
        opportunity to retest the limiting deductions against Scripture be
        utterly sure that our deductions limiting the pool are correct.

        This entails turning a hard and critical and Berean eye on the
        principles that we believe limit us. Working together, our children
        and ourselves must reconsider: are those principles biblical or are
        they not?

        To do this truly and not superficially is something that is very hard
        to do, particularly when we have an emotional commitment to the group
        whose limitations we have till now believed correct. Those
        covenanters in this group who are reexamining the RPNA distinctives
        can tell us how hard this is to do.

        To apply it to your situation and to put it at its bluntest: you and
        your children must reexamine the teachings which limit their choice
        of potential mates with the same critical eye that you apply to
        someone peddling Roman Catholic dogma. Test everything, and I mean
        Test, and Everything.

        It is because we know that RC's are wrong on some things that we are
        alert to the possiblity that there are errors in their teaching. But
        even though we know that the most approved teachers of our special
        group are not apostles and thus are not inerrent, no matter how much
        we protest the contrary, we don't test their teachings in the same
        way. Instead, our default tendency is to presume that anything we
        have been taught in our group is right and does not need to be
        examined with an eye that is seriously looking for possible errors.
        The latter is the eye that the Bereans employed when they checked
        Paul out against scripture, and the one you folk have to apply to
        your situation.

        Instead of doing this at the time in my situation, I contented myself
        with a superficial review of what I though I knew. And it was not
        many years before I had reason to wish that I had been more thorough.

        If I had done what I should have done, I would have discovered two
        things; while there were differences of opinion over a few issues
        that divided a young lady and myself, those issues were among those
        that Scripture did not apodidically settle one way or another. In
        other words, the issues involved were such that both sides could
        claim that their views were good consequence deductions from the
        Scriptures but neither side could claim that there views were the
        only option that Scripture necessarily taught since the other views
        were not specifically excluded.

        If after such re-examination, your children discover that the
        principles that limit the potential spouse pool are biblical, well
        and good. They will be strengthened to face the test of walking
        according to the limitations.
        >
        > I am particularly interested in exploring these questions:
        >
        >
        >
        > Philosophically how should we view the "extra" trials that our
        children
        > endure and that we endure (i.e. above mainstream Christianity)
        because of
        > them? I think how we view those trials is critical.

        Tim-If the limitation one believes one must apply to the potential
        spouse pool is biblical, then what your children are going through is
        a biblical and not extra biblical trial of faith and God will give
        grace accordingly. If the limitation is not biblical then it is an
        unnecessary load to carry and God is not obliged to give grace to
        fulfill something he does not command.
        >
        > How can we increase our own patience in trials that we may be better
        > equipped to help our children in theirs?

        Tim-Mediate much on the love and faithfulness and patience of Christ
        to you. His mercies are great. Keep praying for your kids and their
        friends.
        >
        > How can we practically help our children in order to minimize their
        > temptations?
        >
        Tim-Seek to walk in a way that pleases the Lord in everything, and
        especially in your marriages. Ask him to give you his joy as your
        strength. If you please the Lord and he gives you his joy in life and
        marriage, your kids will see it. And such a marriage is powerfully
        attractive; people want something like it for themselves. This will
        help innoculate them against Satan's substitutes.
        >
        hope this helps

        Tim
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