Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: Why Headcoverings Outside of Worship?
- Regardless of one's position regarding women wearing a hat in public, it is fairly clear Scripture requires a hat in public worship.Glenn________________________________________________________J. Glenn Ferrell, Pastor, Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian Church, Boise, Idaho
________________________________________________________To suppose that whatever God requireth of us
that we have the power of ourselves to do,
is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect.
-John Owen (1616-1683)
________________________________________________________----- Original Message -----From: Tim CunninghamSent: Friday, May 25, 2007 8:31 AMSubject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: Why Headcoverings Outside of Worship?
Thanks for answering. I to don't intend to argue this one. As I said,
I was just curious.
--- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, "gmw"
<ragingcalvinist@ ...> wrote:
> Hi Tim,
> I've never been one to want to argue this subject, but I will not
> my friend be curious, so I will explain my position with some help
> from Mr. Calvin.
> --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, "Tim Cunningham"
> <timmopussycat@ > wrote:
> > Tim-Granted that I am not from a covie background and so may not
> > how the relevant passage of 1 Cor. 11 has been interpreted in
> > tradition,
> There is nothing distinctly Covenanter about our (my wife's and my)
> position on headcoverings.
> > but this appears to imply that your wife wears a head
> > covering at all times.
> Not at all times. I'm not trying to be funny, but I've been asked
> whether or not I'm for headcoverings in the shower, in bed, moping
> around the house in our pajamas, etc. As Calvin notes in his
> on 1 Corinthians, "St. Paul is not addressing what may take place at
> home; for, if a woman combs her hair, she will surely have it
> uncovered then, but she also retires to her place of privacy. So,
> Paul is not discussing what may happen with individuals at home."
> Again, Calvin notes that, "should a woman require to make such haste
> in assisting a neighbor that she has not time to cover her head, she
> sins not in running out with her head uncovered" [Institutes Book
> Chapter 10, Sec. 31]. So, no, not at all times.
> > As I read the relevant passage, Paul seems to be
> > mandating covering in the worship service of the church not as
> > something to be done at all times. Is there a reason that your
> > is extending the practice beyond church walls?
> If one assumes the woman is uncovered coming in to worship, then the
> direction seems to be that the woman put on the covering during
> worship. However, if one assumes that the woman is already covered
> coming in to worship, then the direction seems to be that the woman
> ought not to take it off during worship.
> Calvin interprets Paul as saying "that women should not go out in
> public with uncovered heads" (Institutes Book IV, Chapter 10, sec.
> Without going into the specifics of 1 Cor. 11, of the sign of
> subjection, the respect to the angels, the headship and glory
> arguments (none of which necessarily cease outside of the walls of a
> church building), there are some other issues involved with the
> headcovering that factor into why my wife wears one whenever she
> in public --
> 1. The difference between men and women:
> "They forget their nature: for women ought to be modest. If there be
> no shame, but that they will needs be out of order: it is a very
> beastliness. That is the effect of God's intent in saying that men
> ought not to put on women's apparel, nor women ought not to be
> in men's apparel: For it is good reason that there should be a
> difference between men and women. And although there were no law
> written, doth not even nature teach it us? And when Paul (1 Cor.
> 11.5,) telleth us that women must come to the Church with their
> covered & not with their hair about their ears: he sheweth the same
> thing. What saith he? have we need to speak to you of such things?
> if a woman were polled , durst she shew her head abroad? A man may
> well be bold to shew his head bare, though he be polled: and shall a
> woman do so too? That were a shame, everybody would mock at her, and
> she should be fain to hide her head. Now since ye know this without
> any scripture or word written: do ye not see how God hath shown as
> were a seed of modesty in you, to the intent that every man should
> have a regard to that which is comely for him? So then, let us mark
> that here God intended to shew us that everybody's attiring of
> themselves ought to be such, as there may be a difference between
> and women." -Calvin's sermon on Deut. 22:5-8.
> 2. The immodesty and impropriety of my wife showing you her long
> beautiful blonde hair:
> "Men use not to hang out a sign at a tavern, unless they meant men
> should come in who list. And while women deck and trim themselves
> after this sort, to draw men's eyes to them, and to have men stand
> gazing at them, what is this else but a spreading out of their
> therefore it is as much as if they kept open tavern of their own
> bodies. True it is, that all of them will not do so: but this is the
> end of their prancking, and it is not almost to be found, but that
> such gorgeous deckings, and such braveries do always bear one smack
> bawdery with them although whoredom do not always follow. So then
> us mark well, when Paul speaketh of this, shamefastness and modesty,
> that in correcting one fault he taketh away all those superfluities
> wherewith women are so set on fire, that they can keep no measure in
> them, & therefore it booteth not now, to reckon them up by
> And if this affection and perverse desire were well purged, no doubt
> women would deck themselves modestly, and we should see no more of
> these disguisings. See there cometh out a woman like a painted
> idol;-all our age is full of colours, there is nothing but laying on
> of gold, perukes and false hairs, and such like: again, we see such
> pomp, and bravery, that when such a Diana cometh forth, we may well
> judge and think that she is at defiance with all shame, with all
> modesty, with all honesty, as a stews, & strumpet, ready to say on
> this wise: 'I will show myself here as a salt bitch, I will be
> impudent and shameless, and show my filthiness to all the world.' We
> should I say, see no more of these things. If women observe this
> of modesty, they would not be so bespangled with gold as they are,
> they would not have their heads uncovered as now they have: to be
> short, they would not so exceed measure in gorgeousness as they do,
> wherein they do but fight against modesty & honesty, which Paul
> speaketh of in this place, if all this (as I said) were cut off." --
> Calvin's Sermon on 1 Timothy 2:9-11.
> And the more often quoted (and seemingly prophetic), "So if women
> thus permitted to have their heads uncovered and to show their hair,
> they will eventually be allowed to expose their entire breasts, and
> they will come to make their exhibitions as if it were a tavern
> they will become so brazen that modesty and shame will be no more;
> short they will forget the duty of nature... So, when it is
> permissible for the women to uncover their heads, one will
> what harm in uncovering the stomach also?' And then after that one
> will plead something else: 'Now if the women go bareheaded, why not
> also this and that?' Then the men, for their part, will break loose
> too. In short, there will be no decency left, unless people contain
> themselves and respect what is proper and fitting, so as not to go
> headlong overboard." -- Calvin's Sermon on 1 Corinthians 11:2-3.
> Again, I do not intend to argue these points. I only wanted to let
> you know what the points are -- not just 1 Cor. 11 and worship, but
> also the differences in apparel for men and women, and modesty.