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More writings from Stan B.

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  • Salaam Alaykoum
    Hello Everyone, For those who have read the first couple of Stan B. s articles there are 2 more now available at the following links:
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 29, 2007
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      Hello Everyone,
      For those who have read the first couple of Stan B.'s articles there are 2 more now available at the following links:

      http://reformedveritas.blogspot.com/2007/04/for-your-consideration-q3-immediate.html

      http://reformedveritas.blogspot.com/2007/04/for-your-consideration-q4-what-is.html

      Yours in Christ,
      ~Samantha


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    • Katrina Schumacher
      Hello Samantha; It takes time to read all of those postings of Stan B s articles, but having now done so, I can testify that my experience with the Elders of
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 30, 2007
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        Hello Samantha;
         
        It takes time to read all of those postings of Stan B's articles, but having now done so, I can testify that my experience with the Elders of the former RPNA was that they did not follow much of what is directed by these earlier Church writings on Presbyterian Procedures to be followed before Excommunicating.  In fact sometimes a Ruling Elder was not even told the circumstances around a given charge; or even the explanation; of innocence from the person (me) facing;  the excommunication. At that time of my first excommunication there were 5 elders in the RPNA...2002.. I was facing charges on four points, Wearing a Head covering, encouraging a friend in another city to attend a Reformed Church that her husband was interested in, telling my in-laws about the Charges against me; That the Elder thought God was angry with me for Occational Hearing... for going inside a church building on the Lord's day even if there was not a sermon or a pastor, because I was in a place that another denomination ought to meet for worship.......... I was not there to Worship) and two more charges were added later Posting in public a rebuke to Kevin Barrow at R-F-W (you can be ex-ed for not agreeing with another RPNA member or adherent in public), and for offending Elder Edwards when I told him and Greg Barrow on the phone..... that I did not trust the elders because; he and Greg Barrow had been counseling our daughters who were not married to move out even if they did not have their father's blessing on it, the girls were being told that their Spiritual wellbeing was in jeopardy if they moved with their parents away from The Prince George Society, and because of my desire to wear a head covering that probably both Grant and I would be excommunicated .....
         
        But what I actually was excommunicated for was a misunderstanding of Presbyterian Procedure... I had been told months earlier by Rev.Derrick Edward (this was during the time that our girls were being counseled to move in with other families)....Anyway Rev Edwards suggested to me;   that in order to keep from being Excommunicated for wearing a Head Covering if I removed my Communicant status and just became an Adherent this would suffice. So at my husband Grant's suggestion after these four charges were brought, I wrote an email trying to do that just become an Adherent....We were told immediately that I had excommunicated myself and had become a deserter...and even though Grant wrote with in twenty minutes of my sending the Email....asking that the Elders forgive that we did not know proper order, telling that I was obeying my husband directions; please have mercy and reinstate my membership....the Elders would not release me from Excommunicating myself.
         
        Yeah, I know this all is hard to follow; it was even harder to live through, especially Grant's pain as a godly father having his unmarried daughters
        told to not live under his headship.  Please note that two of our girls could not bring pain to their dad, and they agreed to stay  until their dad directed that it was time for them to go after spending a year with us; they did leave with their father's blessing; the youngest one  to help an older sister, and the other to be in the city where  she could court in person.  Sadly the other two girls did not know that their father would be called onto glory  in such a short time, they've  shed tears over not blessing their godly father as their two younger sisters were able to do. Oh, I weep over the memories.<sigh>
         
        My understanding of how the former court of the RPNA worked;  If  two of the Elders out of the three involved in the matter agreed; even if one Elder was not in agreement, it just takes two to decide, at least I assume Excommunications would be handled the same way as other church matters, just needing two....then the Excommunication was announced by email to the Societies...sometimes some one in the society has to forward the excommunication notice to you; for you do not even receive it directly from the Elders.(in my present husband; John Schumacher's case of telling one Elder Lyndon Dohms on the Phone that he thought the RPNA no longer had a Church Structure in 2005) John was excommunicated without any personal contact from the other two Elders Rev. Greg Price and Greg Barrow... I do not think any of the Societies knew that John was facing excommunication for declaring that he could no longer recognize the RPNA as a Church.  I do not think any of the members contacted John to try to persuade him to recognize the former RPNA as a Church, to change his discison to attend a local CRC church.....John had to drive almost 2 hours to attend the PRCE at Edmonton, which he faithfully did for eight years.
         
        I want to end this post by stating that though during these trying times, Grant wrote down his thoughts about the Elders' actions, and his dissapointment with their handling......he passed away holding no ill will towards them, for remember that  two of the Elder's sons are married to our daughters and we share grandchildren......during  Grant's battle with Cancer and we were in California, so that Grant could attend
        the Cancer clinic in Mexico.....Rev. Greg Price flew out from Albany  New York along with our daughters Amanda, her husband Joshua Price, little grandson  Joshua Grant 
        and our Tammy Jean. Grant's comments 
        to me; were of how wonderful it was to have a Pastor who  cared enough to come and minister to him.  Grant passed away just three weeks after that visit, on our return to Canada.
         
        So,  though I write all this hoping that the folks that lurk that are still members of the former RPNA, will heed and see what harm could be coming their way next. I state that
        I love these Elders and their families, I love them for they are family and were my friends, and are brothers and sisters in Christ.....
         
        BUT THEY HAVE DONE GREAT WRONG AND ARE PREPARED TO CONTINUE TO DO MORE.  
         
         
        PLEASE HEED THIS WARNING.
         
        BLESSINGS,
         
        ~Katrina Schumacher~
         
        to the X-ed
        the words of Joshua 1:9
        "Be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee withersoever thou goeset."


        From: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Salaam Alaykoum
        Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 10:17 PM
        To: CRC
        Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] More writings from Stan B.

        Hello Everyone,
        For those who have read the first couple of Stan B.'s articles there are 2 more now available at the following links:

        http://reformedveri tas.blogspot. com/2007/ 04/for-your- consideration- q3-immediate. html

        http://reformedveri tas.blogspot. com/2007/ 04/for-your- consideration- q4-what-is. html

        Yours in Christ,
        ~Samantha


        All new Yahoo! Mail
        Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page.

      • Willena Flewelling
        Dear Katrina, ... Phone that he thought the RPNA no longer had a Church Structure in 2005) John was excommunicated without any personal contact from the other
        Message 3 of 4 , Apr 30, 2007
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          Dear Katrina,

          >>> John Schumacher's case of telling one Elder Lyndon Dohms on the
          Phone that he thought the RPNA no longer had a Church Structure in 2005)
          John was excommunicated without any personal contact from the other two
          Elders Rev. Greg Price and Greg Barrow... I do not think any of the
          Societies knew that John was facing excommunication for declaring that
          he could no longer recognize the RPNA as a Church. I do not think any
          of the members contacted John to try to persuade him to recognize the
          former RPNA as a Church, to change his discison to attend a local CRC
          church.....John had to drive almost 2 hours to attend the PRCE at
          Edmonton, which he faithfully did for eight years. <<<

          Considering this happened nearly two years ago before many of us had our
          eyes opened... and that we were never told the real reason why John
          left, but only that he had resigned his membership and refused to hear
          the elders' counsel on it... why would we try to persuade him otherwise?

          You are right. Even we in the Edmonton society did not know this. I
          stand guilty of blindness to the elders' faults because of my implicit
          faith in them. I am sorry now that I did not see the real state of
          things a lot sooner, and that some, like you and John, had to stand very
          much alone in your battle, with all of us thinking you were obstinately
          in the wrong.

          Willena
        • Katrina Schumacher
          Dear Willina; Thanks for commenting, I rejoice in how the Lord enables you to be such a sweet humble sister. May you always be blessed so. I do not think John
          Message 4 of 4 , May 1, 2007
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            Dear Willina;
             
            Thanks for commenting, I rejoice in how the Lord enables you
            to be such a sweet humble sister. May you always be blessed
            so.
             
             
            I do not think John expected anyone to know of his circumstances,
            and I know I certainly did not expect any of the members to come to
            my aid, when I was aware that some of the Elders did not know
            all the details  of charges against a member... I was trying to
            convey that in my last post, but realize that I was not clear
            enough on that point.
             
            It is a great weakness of not having the safety of godly numbers
            to decide matters.What comes to mind is the example of the composing
            of the Westminster Confession
            of Faith; what was the number of ministers involved, was it 70 some?
            .....this important Church document was not decided by to
            two or three men. And as in the documents Stan B. posted, all godly
            members are to know the details before an excommunication happens,
            and if I understand correctly all the membership plus the Elders are
            to be in agreement about the need for excommunication.
             
            I really felt heart sick yesterday after posting, I do not enjoy writing
            to expose the weaknesses or error of brethren, of men who ought
            to have honor and respect shown for their office.
             
             Again, it is Spring time here at the Ranch, a little sorrel foal a long
            legged colt was born this morning, that's 4 foals so far and many more
             to come probably 8 more and we will be having some more calves too...
            there are 8 live calves, I've never in all my years of having to do with
            cattle seen such loses....we are at 6 deaths, (miserable weather, coyotes,
            hard births, and a mother laying on new calf's head)  I'll  share
            this story, on April 18th the day that Tammy Jean flew in from Albany;
             a black bull calf was born in the frozen sleet, he almost died at birth,
             I was making supper,watching out the kitchen window on our second storey;
             and saw his mother progressing well with his
            birth, I then saw that he was born with the membranes still over his
            head, I ran for all I was worth, got there to pull them off and he was
            choking on the fluids trapped around his head, I got him breathing
            pulled him to spot clear of snow and went back to finish supper,
            for I had get supper on the table and quickly do chores in only 1 1/2 hour 
            before I needed to leave to drive the 2 1/2 hours to the Calgary Airport to retrieve
            Tammy Jean....just before leaving I noted that the bull calf was
            not yet standing up, so I packed/dragged him to the big hay feeder
            tubed him with warmed up Colostrum....told John that I hoped the calf
            stayed in the hay feeder for if he fell down in the big water
            puddle not far from the feeder, in his weakened state that he
            would drown.....The roads were so bad with slushy snow, and
            visibility was almost nil, I prayed that the Lord would send a
            truck that had better lights than John's GrandAm that I could
            safely follow, for there were  so many vehicles in the ditch
            along the highway as I drove......and the Lord did not just send a good
            driver in a truck but two, so I could follow and go around safely
            all the traffic that was driving so slowly.By the time Tammy and
            I returned from the Airport the visibility was better and we could
            start sharing what the Lord had been doing in our lives...I'm
            so blessed to have children that I can converse with on such a
            deep level.   On with the point of this story, as we arrived at the
            Ranch I could see in the headlights that the Cow was laying close
            to the hay feeder, it was already after 2:30am so I decided to
            not go out until I had slept a few hours; to my disappointment at
            5:30am when I went to the feeder and got the cow up, here her
            bull calf and managed to move enough to get his nose out
            over the edge of the feeder, and his fat mother's tummy had
            covered his nose..the body was still slightly warm....but he
            was dead.....three days later a little red heifer was born, I watched
            as the mother who had laid on her calf went over smelled the new
             calf, that was then about 4 hours old, it was like she seemed to
            be thinking that she would take this one for her own, since her black boy
            was dead.... I phoned John and told him that I needed someone with
            Solomon's wisdom to discern what to do with two cows claiming the same calf as theirs.
            We did not do has Solomon did, offer to cut the calf in half, instead
            we have watched with amusement two black cows catering to a little
            red calf whims, they follow the calf  always hovering over her, and
            she sucks milk from both cows, so I guess the three of them have come
            to a happy resolvement. <GRIN>
             
            I hope you enjoyed that story; So, now that the weather is warmer I'll be busy
            each day training young horses for market....got to have it together financially
            by the end of July to purchase next winter's hay for the Critters.
             I will be changing my settings for mail from Gerry's group, to none; so if anyone
             has a comment or question to me, please write it now, for I'll probably not know of
            it after May 6th.
             
            Blessings, and a big thank you to those of you
            who have been praying,
             
            ~Katrina~
             
            GALATIANS 6:9
            "AND LET US NOT BE WEARY IN WELL DOING: FOR IN DUE SEASON WE
            SHALL REAP, IF WE FAINT NOT."
             
            NUMBERS 14:21
            "BUT AS TRULY AS I LIVE, ALL THE EARTH SHALL BE FILLED WITH THE
            GLORY OF THE LORD."
             


            From: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Willena Flewelling
            Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 10:42 PM
            To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] More writings from Stan B.

            Dear Katrina,

            >>> John Schumacher's case of telling one Elder
            Lyndon Dohms on the
            Phone that he thought the RPNA no longer had a Church Structure in 2005)
            John was excommunicated without any personal contact from the other two
            Elders Rev. Greg Price and Greg Barrow... I do not think any of the
            Societies knew that John was facing excommunication for declaring that
            he could no longer recognize the RPNA as a Church. I do not think any
            of the members contacted John to try to persuade him to recognize the
            former RPNA as a Church, to change his discison to attend a local CRC
            church.....John had to drive almost 2 hours to attend the PRCE at
            Edmonton, which he faithfully did for eight years. <<<

            Considering this happened nearly two years ago before many of us had our
            eyes opened... and that we were never told the real reason why John
            left, but only that he had resigned his membership and refused to hear
            the elders' counsel on it... why would we try to persuade him otherwise?

            You are right. Even we in the Edmonton society did not know this. I
            stand guilty of blindness to the elders' faults because of my implicit
            faith in them. I am sorry now that I did not see the real state of
            things a lot sooner, and that some, like you and John, had to stand very
            much alone in your battle, with all of us thinking you were obstinately
            in the wrong.

            Willena

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