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Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: Excommunication Steps for Public Scandal - In Summary

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  • Cheryl Grenon
    Dee Dee said:
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 9, 2007
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      Dee Dee said:
       
      <<I know that where there is man, there is
      hypocrisy, but I wonder just how much damage has been done to the
      souls of our children. When more love is evident in the world than
      in the body of Christ, how does that influence "the least of these"?
      More than a handful who have grown up in this atmosphere have turned
      to the world, and away from God, one of the pastor's included. May
      God have mercy on us, and restore our children unto him.>>
       
      I can tell you what it has done to my children:  not one of my six eldest children want anything to do with the Reformed faith.  Four of them are attending other evangelical churches, for which I am profoundly grateful.  While the theology may not be all it should be, the practical Christian living is and they still hear the Gospel preached. 
       
      On a personal level, I am now extremely wary of anyone who claims to have the corner on the truth.  Our understanding is finite and on that basis we should be extending a whole lot more mercy and grace to one another rather than beating one another over the head with our version of the truth.  I am profoundly ashamed of myself when I consider my past words and actions in defending the RPNA and what they stood for.  The distinctives with which we provoke one another with are temporal in nature and will disappear in the light of eternity when the Lord straightens out everyone's wrong notions about Him.  With that in mind, I am seeking to model the love and forgiveness of the Lord more and more in my dealings with others, especially those in the Body who are in other branches of the church.  Yes, even the Arminians.  I was saved in an Arminian church and I know many Calvinists who were as well.  God's Holy Spirit is not limited by our foolishness or our errors.
       
      It is *Christ* who saves, not our understanding of doctrine.
       
      Cheryl

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: nocost2great <manna4free@...>
      To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 9, 2007 6:26:31 AM
      Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: Excommunication Steps for Public Scandal - In Summary

       I know that where there is man, there is
      hypocrisy, but I wonder just how much damage has been done to the
      souls of our children. When more love is evident in the world than
      in the body of Christ, how does that influence "the least of these"?
      More than a handful who have grown up in this atmosphere have turned
      to the world, and away from God, one of the pastor's included. May
      God have mercy on us, and restore our children unto him.

      Which leads me to realize that I need to get started with school.
      First I want to briefly answer Tony's questions:

      How does the reformed church excel? in zeal for purity of doctrine
      and worship; standing for the truth(as they see it), no matter the
      cost which implies a devout commitment to obedience to God.
      Where are it's weaknesses? love for the brethren, and extending
      grace and charity
      Knowledge puffeth up... we all think we have a corner on the truth
      and divisive lines are drawn when we disagree on whatever the
      hottest issue is, be it head coverings or birth-control. There are
      no margins; no room for charity. I don't see this in the writings of
      the Divines. They seemed to have more room for differing opinions,
      and they deliberated over issues, coming to the table without the
      attitude 'my way or the highway'. They were truly seeking unity. I
      don't see that in the many, many micro-denominations today.

      Looking forward to more new topics that edify and encourage. :)

      Dee Dee




      Don't pick lemons.
      See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
    • Gus Gianello
      Cheryl, I have found that one of the best ways to develop and appreciation for other reformation faiths, such as anglican and lutheran is to join a list where
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 9, 2007
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        Cheryl,
        I have found that one of the best ways to develop and appreciation for other reformation faiths, such as anglican and lutheran is to join a list where everyone is respected, where difference are discussed, and even though we end up disagreeing with each other, and nobody changes their opinion nontheless, our appreciation for what BINDS US TOGETHER grows.
         
        Such a list is PACE, Protestant Association of Confessing Evangelicals, where godly debate is not stifled, but encouraged but the call to Scripture and reason is vigorous.  If you or anyone else is interested in this list it is ProtestantAllianceofConfessingEvangelicals@yahoogroups.com.  I post there frequently, and it is run by a friend of mine Phil Veitch, who is a retired Marine chaplain, based in Virginia.  Phil is an Anglican churchman, but faithful to the Scriptures, opposing all the evil that goes on in the world of Anglicanism.  He belongs to the Orthodox Anglican church, and is a staunch Calivinist who also runs Cambridge Christian Academy.
         
         
        Cordially,
        Gus
        -----Original Message-----
        From: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Grenon
        Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 12:03 PM
        To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: Excommunication Steps for Public Scandal - In Summary

        Dee Dee said:
         
        <<I know that where there is man, there is
        hypocrisy, but I wonder just how much damage has been done to the
        souls of our children. When more love is evident in the world than
        in the body of Christ, how does that influence "the least of these"?
        More than a handful who have grown up in this atmosphere have turned
        to the world, and away from God, one of the pastor's included. May
        God have mercy on us, and restore our children unto him.>>
         
        I can tell you what it has done to my children:  not one of my six eldest children want anything to do with the Reformed faith.  Four of them are attending other evangelical churches, for which I am profoundly grateful.  While the theology may not be all it should be, the practical Christian living is and they still hear the Gospel preached. 
         
        On a personal level, I am now extremely wary of anyone who claims to have the corner on the truth.  Our understanding is finite and on that basis we should be extending a whole lot more mercy and grace to one another rather than beating one another over the head with our version of the truth.  I am profoundly ashamed of myself when I consider my past words and actions in defending the RPNA and what they stood for.  The distinctives with which we provoke one another with are temporal in nature and will disappear in the light of eternity when the Lord straightens out everyone's wrong notions about Him.  With that in mind, I am seeking to model the love and forgiveness of the Lord more and more in my dealings with others, especially those in the Body who are in other branches of the church.  Yes, even the Arminians.  I was saved in an Arminian church and I know many Calvinists who were as well.  God's Holy Spirit is not limited by our foolishness or our errors.
         
        It is *Christ* who saves, not our understanding of doctrine.
         
        Cheryl

        ----- Original Message ----
        From: nocost2great <manna4free@bellsout h.net>
        To: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
        Sent: Monday, April 9, 2007 6:26:31 AM
        Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: Excommunication Steps for Public Scandal - In Summary

         I know that where there is man, there is
        hypocrisy, but I wonder just how much damage has been done to the
        souls of our children. When more love is evident in the world than
        in the body of Christ, how does that influence "the least of these"?
        More than a handful who have grown up in this atmosphere have turned
        to the world, and away from God, one of the pastor's included. May
        God have mercy on us, and restore our children unto him.

        Which leads me to realize that I need to get started with school.
        First I want to briefly answer Tony's questions:

        How does the reformed church excel? in zeal for purity of doctrine
        and worship; standing for the truth(as they see it), no matter the
        cost which implies a devout commitment to obedience to God.
        Where are it's weaknesses? love for the brethren, and extending
        grace and charity
        Knowledge puffeth up... we all think we have a corner on the truth
        and divisive lines are drawn when we disagree on whatever the
        hottest issue is, be it head coverings or birth-control. There are
        no margins; no room for charity. I don't see this in the writings of
        the Divines. They seemed to have more room for differing opinions,
        and they deliberated over issues, coming to the table without the
        attitude 'my way or the highway'. They were truly seeking unity. I
        don't see that in the many, many micro-denominations today.

        Looking forward to more new topics that edify and encourage. :)

        Dee Dee




        Don't pick lemons.
        See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

      • Gus Gianello
        This is a general post to all those who were excommunicated and their families. Take heart. You are not alone. Any of you who want fellowship, you can
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 9, 2007
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          This is a general post to all those who were excommunicated and their families.
          Take heart.  You are not alone.  Any of you who want fellowship, you can contact me.  It will only be electronic, but I would gladly fellowship with you and talk about anything you want.  I have been a Christian for 33 years, and paid a heavy price for being Reformed Presbyterian.  When I embraced the Reformed faith, my first wife abandoned me, being committed to an occult (literally) kind of Charismatic belief.  I lost my wife, my children, everything.  Then when I was a minister in a micro-Reformed Presbyterian church I also suffered being abused at the hands of ecclesiatical tyrants.  I was excommunicated without charges or process, my finances were ruined, my health was ruined, and I suffered a nervous breakdown.  My reputation was destroyed, and there is still slander going around about me.  That happened twelve years ago.  Thank God for my second wife, who has stood by me in it all, and almost lost me as a result of the stress this caused.  We had to declare bankruptcy, and we have been poor ever since.  So I know from personal experience, the suffering and grief you have gone through.  Take time to heal, rest assured that by leaving these emails, you have provided a PUBLIC RECORD of your abuse.  This public record can be used to your good, when you apply for membership in another church.  PLEASE do, attend a Reformed church.  I commend the Bible Presbyterian church, which is on the Cdn and American west coast, and in Edmonton as well.  I commend the RPCNA, which I believe overall to be a sane group of men, with some exceptions.  Larry Blunt is a good example of an RPCNA elder who cares, and is probably crying over all of this.  I have no tears left.  As to those of you out in the Albany New York area, the RPCNA is out there, and I think so is the Bible Presbyterian church.  Others that I can commend are the American Presbyterian Church, and the American Reformation Presbyterian Church, which would call themselves practicing covenanters.  This is Richard Bacon's group; I have high esteem for brother Bacon, and encourage you to contact him.
           
           
          If there is anything I can do for any of you, I encourage you to email me or Skype me.  We cannot afford and are not qualified for phone service.  But Skype is wonderful technology.  Check it out at http://www.skype.com
           
          My Skype address is: dr_gus_gianello
          My email address: dr.gus.gianello@...  or
           
           
           
          Shalom in Christ,
           
          Gus

          .

        • Chris Coldwell
          I believe that FPCR/ARPC is merging or will be received into the RPC Hanover Presbytery (Edwin Elliot et al). So the ARPC will be no more I guess. Sincerely,
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 9, 2007
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            I believe that FPCR/ARPC is merging or will be received into the RPC
            Hanover Presbytery (Edwin Elliot et al). So the ARPC will be no more I
            guess.
            Sincerely,
            Chris Coldwell
            Naphtali Press http://www.naphtali.com
            The Confessional Presbyterian journal http://www.cpjournal.com
            Member Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Dallas Texas
            --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Gus Gianello"
            American Reformation Presbyterian Church, which
            > would call themselves practicing covenanters. This is Richard Bacon's
            > group; I have high esteem for brother Bacon, and encourage you to
            contact
            > him.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > If there is anything I can do for any of you, I encourage you to
            email me or
            > Skype me. We cannot afford and are not qualified for phone service.
            But
            > Skype is wonderful technology. Check it out at http://www.skype.com
            >
            > My Skype address is: dr_gus_gianello
            > My email address: dr.gus.gianello@... or
            > gusgianello@...
            >
            >
            >
            > Shalom in Christ,
            >
            > Gus
            >
            > .
            >
            >
            <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=5167355/grpspId=1706113926/msgId
            > =15631/stime=1176134720/nc1=3848610/nc2=4299908/nc3=3848643>
            >
          • Larry Bump
            ... If you mean me, it s Bump. I am always willing to minister as I might. My pastor, Phil Pockras, has a heart for these people as well; we pray for all of
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 9, 2007
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              Gus Gianello wrote:

              > Larry Blunt is a good example of an RPCNA elder
              > who cares, and is probably crying over all of

              If you mean me, it's Bump.
              I am always willing to minister as I might. My pastor, Phil Pockras,
              has a heart for these people as well; we pray for all of those involved
              in this situation according to their needs.

              If there is anything I can do for any of you, ask.

              A question for the refugees (so to speak):

              How can we minister to you? Is there anything I can put out on the list
              that would help; a way to pray together, some encouragement, anything?
              I am sure it would be allowed for us to use the list for the sake of the
              brethren.

              Larry
            • Gus Gianello
              Dear brother Bump, Please forgive me, I am getting old and decrepit. I remember Scripture but forget names. My apologies, Gus Gianello ... From:
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 9, 2007
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                Message
                Dear brother Bump,
                Please forgive me, I am getting old and decrepit.  I remember Scripture but forget names.
                 
                My apologies,
                 
                Gus Gianello
                -----Original Message-----
                From: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bump
                Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 9:03 PM
                To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] To all Excommunicants

                Gus Gianello wrote:

                > Larry Blunt is a good example of an RPCNA elder
                > who cares, and is probably crying over all of

                If you mean me, it's Bump.
                I am always willing to minister as I might. My pastor, Phil Pockras,
                has a heart for these people as well; we pray for all of those involved
                in this situation according to their needs.

                If there is anything I can do for any of you, ask.

                A question for the refugees (so to speak):

                How can we minister to you? Is there anything I can put out on the list
                that would help; a way to pray together, some encouragement, anything?
                I am sure it would be allowed for us to use the list for the sake of the
                brethren.

                Larry

              • Larry Bump
                ... You have certainly retained the better part. ;-) No offense taken, no forgiveness required. Larry
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 9, 2007
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                  Gus Gianello wrote:
                  > Dear brother Bump,
                  > Please forgive me, I am getting old and decrepit. I remember Scripture
                  > but forget names.


                  You have certainly retained the better part.
                  ;-)

                  No offense taken, no forgiveness required.

                  Larry
                • bob_suden
                  ... True, sound doctrine is not the end or the cause of salvation, but it is the God appointed means. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word preached
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 9, 2007
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                    --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Cheryl Grenon
                    <knoxknoxwhosthere@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > It is *Christ* who saves, not our understanding of doctrine.
                    >

                    True, sound doctrine is not the end or the cause of salvation, but it
                    is the God appointed means. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the
                    word preached about the word become flesh, the Lord Jesus Christ.

                    Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but
                    ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered
                    you.

                    As ML Jones put it, working backwards, they obeyed because their heart
                    or affections were warmed and that because of the truth of the gospel in
                    Christ was delivered to their understanding or intellect.

                    Even further, doctrine of some kind is inescapable. Some kind of
                    conception or misconception of truth is unavoidable. But woe be unto
                    that Christian, who, while they are called to have the mind of Christ,
                    think it admirable that their own resembles a blank slate. I do not
                    think they will hear a 'well done, thou good and faithful servant' on
                    that day.

                    True, sound doctrine is unto godliness or it's not sound doctrine (or
                    it is sound doctrine, but somebody is a hypocrite).
                    But by the same token, without sound doctrine, there cannot be true
                    godliness, but rather only a pelagian works righteousness masquerade in
                    its place.
                    It's not one or the other, but both and in that order.

                    Thank you,
                    cordially in Christ
                    Bob S
                  • Salaam Alaykoum
                    I would like to thank those on this list who have been praying for us who have been unlawfully and unjustly excommunicated from the fellowship of the
                    Message 9 of 9 , Apr 29, 2007
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                      I would like to thank those on this list who have been praying for us who have been unlawfully and unjustly "excommunicated" from the fellowship of the "RPNA(GM)".  Your prayers, encouragement, and offers of help, as well as standing up for justice, righteousness, and godliness, despite the fact that we may not all be on the same page 100%, is greatly appreciated.  May the Lord bless and keep you all. 

                      Your sister in Christ,
                      Samantha


                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: Larry Bump <lbump@...>
                      To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, April 9, 2007 7:02:41 PM
                      Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] To all Excommunicants

                      Gus Gianello wrote:

                      > Larry Blunt is a good example of an RPCNA elder
                      > who cares, and is probably crying over all of

                      If you mean me, it's Bump.
                      I am always willing to minister as I might. My pastor, Phil Pockras,
                      has a heart for these people as well; we pray for all of those involved
                      in this situation according to their needs.

                      If there is anything I can do for any of you, ask.

                      A question for the refugees (so to speak):

                      How can we minister to you? Is there anything I can put out on the list
                      that would help; a way to pray together, some encouragement, anything?
                      I am sure it would be allowed for us to use the list for the sake of the
                      brethren.

                      Larry




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