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[Covenanted Reformation] Re: "the rpna(gm)" Scandal

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  • Ic Neltococayotl
    Susan, Excellent posts!! Excellent questions! Very briefly, Someone somewhere once wrote that our refusal to sign the oaths WERE the principal causes of our
    Message 1 of 47 , Apr 6, 2007


      Excellent posts!!  Excellent questions!

      Very briefly,

      Someone somewhere once wrote that our refusal to sign the oaths WERE the principal causes of our excommunications.  The charges of sins that were brought before the "court" of the three are just that charges, but since we did not sign the oath, they could not rule on whether these charges could stand for discipline or not.   In other words there was no deliberation and judgment passed on the merits of the charges of sin, that I am aware of.  So the root cause of our excommunications was not (as some insinuate) being part of the Effort or as they call it a "secret society", but because we refused to sign the oath.  They even excommunicated a friend of this club from a long time ago, known as brother John.  His sin?  Who knows (he wasn't part of the Effort or had made public statements challenging the elders)!!  But the Elders stated that they tried to contact him via e-mail and after two or so attempts, including serving the oath to him and then ex'ed him!  Even after this brother had never responded to their e-mails.  What is more outrageous is the fact that the e-mail that the 3 elders were using was undeliverable.  Hence this points out another serious short coming to the sheparding via the web.

      It is an atrocity of Presbyterian polity after another with them.  The adsurdities are overwhelming and when I hear the expereince of others of certain mismanagement to say the least, it raises the question of their ability to govern and remain in such offices.

      Susan, in order to answer whether they can be elders, one needs to start at the level of what is Presbyterian Church Government and the qualifications of offices.  That then will lead one to the inevitable conclusion of whether men holding such offices are qualified or not.  That is why some of us start there.  This also helps to answer whether a local Session can exist in the ether, i.e. via the web, or if it must remain at the local, congregational level.  That will then lead you to a more reasoned answer whether a Session can really govern others over the web that live thousands of miles away.  But, like you already stated, Stan has done an excellent job in dealing with this topic, in my opinion.

      Thanks again,


      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Wilkinson" <gpyp@...> wrote:
      > Hi Samantha,
      > I have already read all of those documents you mention and more and that's
      > why I found Ben's statement so odd. All of your "excommunication" notices
      > basically state that your sin is refusing to sign the oath. If there is some
      > indirect or secret connection between the excommunications and The
      > Effort/Charitable Inquiry that still wouldn't or rather shouldn't cause
      > anyone to be able to "support the excommunications with an eased conscience"
      > when the excommunications are for something entirely different. Does that
      > make sense or am I missing something here?
      > By-the-way, I have also read at least two public testimonies of the ladies
      > in your family against the 3 elders and I'm wondering if there has ever been
      > a public answer to your papers from either the men themselves or those who
      > remain followers of them. If there is could you point me to it? If not, why
      > not?? I believe that your families concerns and claims should be one of the
      > first things dealt with in this situation.
      > Thank you,
      > Susan

    • Salaam Alaykoum
      Thank you Mr. Cunningham and Mr. Gianello. ~Samantha ... From: Gus Gianello To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com Sent:
      Message 47 of 47 , Apr 29, 2007
        Thank you Mr. Cunningham and Mr. Gianello.


        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Gus Gianello <dr.gus.gianello@...>
        To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 11:48:41 PM
        Subject: RE: [Covenanted Reformation] Resource for those grieved by recent events

        A very useful review of this book is inserted below
        The Barnabas Ministry
        Book Review

        Healing Spiritual Abuse: How to Break Free from Bad Church Experiences
        Ken Blue (Intervarsity Press, Downers Grove, IL. 1993.) 166 pages.

        In Healing Spiritual Abuse, Ken Blue offers a well-researched and insightful analysis of the dynamics of spiritual abuse. Books of this genre often focus on practical, behavioral aspects of abuse, and Blue definitely addresses this. For example, Blue offers this list of characteristics of an abusive church:

        1. Abusive leaders base their spiritual authority on their position or office rather than on their service to the group. Their style of leadership is authoritarian.
        2. Leaders in abusive churches often say one thing but do another. Their words and deeds do not match.
        3. They manipulate people by making them feel guilty for not measuring up spiritually. They lay heavy religious loads on people and make no effort to lift those loads. You know you are in an abusive church if the loads just keep getting heavier.
        4. Abusive leaders are preoccupied with looking good. They labor to keep up appearance. They stifle any criticism that puts them in a bad light.
        5. They seek honorific titles and special privileges that elevate them above the group. They promote a class system with themselves at the top.
        6. Their communication is not straight. Their speech becomes especially vague and confusing when they are defending themselves.
        7. They major on minor issues to the neglect of the truly important ones. They are conscientious about religious details but neglect God's larger agendas.

        If your church rates high on these negative indicators, it is significantly spiritually abusive. Now something must be done. You may choose to stay and fight for change. Bear in mind, however, that most abusive religious systems are very well rationalized and well-defended. Abusive leaders are unlikely to respond well to your rational objections and constructive criticisms. Spiritual abuse is never the result of confused thinking. It is caused by a lust for power (p. 135).

        However, Blue excels at discussing the phenomenon of spiritual abuse from a theological and Scriptural point of view. The book is loaded with pastoral insights that are well founded and well expressed. A few excerpts illustrate this clearly:

        In Luke 12:42 Jesus gives a picture of true spiritual authority in the form of a parable. He asks, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time?" True leaders are not necessarily profoundly gifted or conspicuously talented; they need no exalted office; they need no titles to validate their words; they need no seat of Moses to support their effectiveness. All they need to do is be faithful and wise, serving food to their followers as it is needed (p. 32).

        Both Ezekiel and Jesus condemned one fundamental error in the shepherds: they used the sheep rather than than served them. They acted as if the sheep existed to meet their needs rather than the other way around. When shepherds today look out over their congregations and see their people as church growth statistics, tithing units and workers in their programs, they follow the pastoral style that Jesus and Ezekiel prophesied against (p. 41).

        The modern "yeast of the Pharisees" is what we call legalism. The term legalism covers any variation on the notion that if we do the proper Christian disciplines well enough and long enough, God will be pleased with us and will reward us. It is the idea that if we do more and try harder, we can make a claim on God's favor so that we need not rely totally upon his mercy and grace.
        Legalism is the great weapon of spiritual abuse. Multiplying religious rules to gain control over followers is authoritarianism' s primary tool. Legalism is an expression of leaders' compulsion to seek security and predictability. If they can enforce an exhaustive list of dos and don'ts, they think, they will gain that security and predictability they crave (p. 44).

        Jesus promises rest for all who are weary of trying to please religious leaders. He offers an easy yoke to all those laboring under a load of spiritual performance. If your religion is wearisome and burdensome, God's answer is not a longer quiet time, a firmer commitment, attendance at one more conference or one more trip to the altar. God's solution for spiritual tiredness is rest-- rest in the loving acceptance of Jesus and his perfect load-carrying work for you (p. 59).

        False shepherds will always give lip service to this mercy and grace, but will then undermine it in the body of their teaching and in their actions (p. 60).

        A more common version of the same story is the pastor who berates the church, blaming them for low attendance at services or poor support for the church programs. Rather than look at the defects in his or her own leadership, the pastor focused attention on the flaws of the congregation. Such a person is more interested in keeping up appearances than in discovering what is actually wrong (p. 71)..

        To sum up, I would say that if abuse is minor and rare, we should probably shrug it off. If it is significant, we should confront the perpetrator. If it is systemic, ongoing, unrelenting and well defended, we probably need to leave (p. 96).

        So when we assess the integrity of a Christian leader or group, we do not look first at its motives, its aims or its moments of kindness. We look first and last at its fruit. If leaders constantly root their authority in an office rather than in servanthood, if they do everything for show, if they demand special privilege or titles, if they use words deceitfully, if they major on minors to the neglect of real pastoral needs, and if this behavior tears people down rather than builds them up, then such leaders must be confronted and changed-- or abandoned (p. 99).

        We have to be clear that if we are to have anything like Christian fellowship with those who have hurt us, they must at some point acknowledge their sin and repent of it. No true relationship between Christians can exist without this cleansing. We can forgive without their repenting, and this will free us from the bondage of ongoing bitterness, but we will not have a reconciled relationship with them until they repent (p. 100-101).

        He (a former spiritual abuser) explained how in his first church he quickly gathered about him those parishioners who met his needs, those who supported him uncritically. "In time," he said, "I established a class system, with my supporters at the top and those who posed a threat to my leadership at the bottom. This system aided me in the delusion that I was doing the right things (p. 110)."

        The second classic type of spiritual abuser is the heroic, grandiose or messianic narcissist who is obsessed by a desire to be someone great or to do something unprecedented for God. Carrying out this fantasy requires the cooperation of others and access to their money. Like the first type, this leader may not consciously wish to hurt anyone; but other are hurt as they are used for the leader's and God's "higher purposes (p. 111)."

        In order to achieve the public support he needs, these leaders make extraordinary claims for themselves or have others make them in their behalf. Such claims may include a special anointing, unusual personal sacrifice, unprecedented encounters with God, unique training, a singular teaching or leadership gift, a revelation of truth that is not available to others, or secret knowledge of God's end-times purposes. These and other claims imply that God has a special calling on this leader, and so it is the "unspecial" people's duty to admire and follow him, which they often do in droves (p. 113).

        A most effective means of control for a messianic leader is to convince his followers that they are on an extraordinary mission with him. If a leader successfully convinces his followers that he is the unique instrument of God, that makes them unique by virtue of their support of him. This group may say or imply such things as "We are a special move of God," "We are the only group proclaiming truth," "We are the faithful remnant," "We are God's cutting edge for this generation," or "We are in training for God's end-times army."
        Once this attitude is rooted in a group, the combination of pride and fear keeps followers in formation. Everyone wants to feel special, and some get hooked on the exhilaration of being part of an elite. Others fear leaving lest they miss God's will and be accused of deserting his special calling (p. 114).

        Many Christians say they have heard, understood and believed the gospel. But when they continue to subject themselves to the legalistic manipulation of spiritual abusers, we must assume that the Good News has not yet sunk in fully. For some this takes time. So we must continually reinforce the truth that we have in fact died to the law and are no longer obligated to it. Meditating on biblical passages which assure us of the radical nature of our acceptance by God through Jesus can be helpful (p. 127).

        Healing Spiritual Abuse is recommended as an insightful and helpful resource in understanding and breaking free from unhealthy church situations.
        The book is available at Amazon.com but not at Amazon.ca



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        Healing Spiritual Abuse: How to Break Free from Bad Church Experiences

        Healing Spiritual Abuse: How to Break Free from Bad Church Experiences (Paperback)
        by Ken Blue (Author) "A televangelist is tried, convicted and sent to jail for defrauding his followers... " (more)
        Key Phrases: New Testament, Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit (more...)
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        Christian love to all,
        Gus Gianello
        -----Original Message-----
        From: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:covenantedr eformationclub@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tim Cunningham
        Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 1:06 AM
        To: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
        Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Resource for those grieved by recent events

        I commend to those who have been grieved by recent events a remarkable
        Biblical study of Christ's teaching on spiritual abuse.

        The book "Healing Spiritual Abuse" by Ken Blue and it is an exegetical
        and historical study of Matt. 23 and shows how the problems exemplified
        by the Pharisees and confronted by Christ still bedevil Christians

        While Blue is neither Presbyterian nor Covenanter, his exegesis of the
        Scriptures is good and his applications are exemplary. But he is
        especially good at helping those who have may or may not have suffered
        spiritual abuse to biblically analyze their situations and how they may
        recover from truly abusive situations.

        Tim Cunningham

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