Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Learn Jurisdiction and the Power of Christ

Expand Messages
  • nocost2great
    ... witness ... the one ... Edmonton ... be ... frame ... removed ... remind ... excommunication-nov-4.html ... The oath is also preceeded with a note that one
    Message 1 of 30 , Mar 20, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Jerry wrote regarding the oath:
      >
      > 1. A charge of sin is made, but what that charge is, and who the
      witness
      > is, is withheld.
      >
      > 2. There is an oath presented requiring the person to swear that
      the one
      > teaching elder in Albany NY (USA) and the two ruling elders in
      Edmonton
      > (Canada) constitute a lawful "session" court of Christ. This must
      be
      > done before the accuser and the sin being charged is revealed.
      >
      > 3. Refusal to respond positively to the oath within a given time
      frame
      > results in excommunication of the greater sort -- i.e. being
      removed
      > from the visible church and being delivered over to Satan.
      >
      > 4. A Scripture passage about Abiram and Dathan is attached, to
      remind
      > everyone what happens when people pipe up against "the session."
      >
      > http://reformedveritas.blogspot.com/2006/11/communication-of-
      excommunication-nov-4.html
      >
      > gmw.
      >

      The oath is also preceeded with a note that one can not have any
      questions regarding the lawfulness of the court. In the document I
      sent there is an embedded pdf file with the entirity of the oath
      letter that includes this, and I quote it in my defense of not
      signing it.

      Dee Dee
    • nocost2great
      ... And ... concerned. ... in ... issues ... the ... for ... Dee Dee responds: Tim, you are correct in your understanding. However, for Ginny s benefit and
      Message 2 of 30 , Mar 20, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Cunningham"
        <timmopussycat@...> wrote:
        >
        > Tim writes: > Tim writes:
        >
        > Dear Dee Dee
        >
        > I am not a covenanter and thus not directly involved in the
        > controversy you are wrestling with. But I am reformation Christian
        > who has had much to do with church discipline both as a church
        > officer trying to exercise godly discipline and before that as a
        > layman watching a godly church turn into a theological tyranny.
        And
        > watching as this matter has developed, I can't help being
        concerned.
        >
        > Observing what has been said so far, if I understand you correctly
        in
        > the above, you have said that you were excommunicated without the
        > specifics of the charges being made known to you and that those
        > charges would be made known to you only if you signed an oath that
        > committed you to a statement that you had no questions about
        issues
        > where you had questions; and an elder claimed that your signing
        the
        > statement under such circumstances would not be a lie.
        >
        > If I have correctly described the situation, this is not a time
        for
        > you to remain silent.

        Dee Dee responds:
        Tim, you are correct in your understanding. However, for Ginny's
        benefit and others who misunderstood my lack of full explanation, I
        have emailed to the group, and asked Jerry to post in the files
        section ALL of my communications (other than the conversation I
        previously mentioned) with the three elders, primarily Greg Price.
        They are lengthy because of the many passages that were cut and
        pasted by pastor Price from their previous sessional responses.
        For some reason Ginny read your statements and understood that you
        thought there had been no communication between myself and any of
        the elders other than being served the oath and the conversation
        where I was told it was okay to swear the oath even if I had
        questions. Although, I don't see that in your questions/statements
        to me, I want to be clear so that one one feels that I have deceived
        them. The written records are there for any and all to read.

        For those who don't care to read through them, there were two
        different incidences where I was given 24 hours to respond. One was
        after the conversation with Greg on Nov 30th, I was sent
        a 'brotherly' letter informally warning of the oath to come and
        basically stating that I must own the oath on Dec. 1st. I was no
        longer (after a mere 24 hours granted the liberty of just removing
        my name, I had to own the court and publicly state that and repent.
        (This was what I was referring to in my original post.) I added my
        name to the CI on Nov 9th. The first communication I had with anyone
        regarding it in particular was the above mentioned call which was
        swiftly followed by the 'brotherly' warning letter.

        For further clarification (in part 2 of the correspondence), I'll
        add that it was not a single incident. Another 24 hour time frame
        occured when I received a letter from Greg stating that he had not
        yet read my letter of defense for not signing the oath (and that he
        hoped to reply the next week.) The next day I was excommunicated,
        and the defense letter was not responded to until 6 days later...
        basically proving that the excommunication was impending regardless
        of what biblical responses were received in defense of not signing
        the oath.

        I in no way intended to imply by omission that I had not had any
        communication with Greg Price or the other elders. If anyone got the
        impression that occurred, please forgive me. I was not trying to be
        misleading or deceptive as Ginny has implied in her private emails
        to me. I was simply trying to use as few words as possible to refute
        Walt's insinuations that all who have been excommunicated were
        involved with the "Effort".

        If anyone cares to take the time to read, you'll also find near the
        end of the third part where questions were sent regarding what I
        considered to be blatant partiality BEFORE my excommunication
        announcement. The response from the elders was that since I had been
        excommunicated, Clay would have to ask the questions. Unless I was
        ready to seek repentance they would no longer address me directly.

        Many thanks to Ginny for enabling me to share the whole story. I too
        felt like it needed to be told but was refraining out of deference
        to my husband. Without the help of Walt and Ginny, I would not have
        had the ninth commandment as my defense for speaking up.

        Standing for the Truth no matter the cost,

        Dee Dee
      • nocost2great
        ... wrote: ... he ... regardless ... Correction: It was late, and I was tired, and not paying close attention. My husband has pointed out that
        Message 3 of 30 , Mar 21, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "nocost2great"
          <manna4free@...> wrote:
          Dee Dee wrote:
          > For further clarification (in part 2 of the correspondence), I'll
          > add that it was not a single incident. Another 24 hour time frame
          > occured when I received a letter from Greg stating that he had not
          > yet read my letter of defense for not signing the oath (and that
          he
          > hoped to reply the next week.) The next day I was excommunicated,
          > and the defense letter was not responded to until 6 days later...
          > basically proving that the excommunication was impending
          regardless
          > of what biblical responses were received in defense of not signing
          > the oath.
          >
          Correction:

          It was late, and I was tired, and not paying close attention. My
          husband has pointed out that I confused some details. Actually the
          above should state that the second 24 hour time frame occurred after
          receiving a letter from Greg stating he hadn't read my defense
          regarding *not removing my name from the CI and not publicly
          repenting for 'joining hands' with my brethren who penned it.* I was
          officially served the *oath* (though the essence of it was contained
          in the 'brotherly letter' dated Dec 1st) less than 24 hours later,
          *not excommunicated.*
          I will also note that I did receive a 'response' to my post "Our
          ninth commandment duties" before being excommunicated. No diaolgue
          ensued, it was just Greg's response to defend himself publicly,
          stating he felt that I had misrepresented him, and to Shawn's
          questions of clarification (not mine) which was copied to me on the
          same day the excommunications were issued.
          Again please forgive me for getting letters confused - oath vs
          excommunication. For those of us who had issues with the
          discrepancies between practice and biblical and historical testimony
          they are actually one and the same; the oath was just the precursor
          to the excommuication. But I don't want to be accused of
          untruthfulness, even if accidental.

          Standing for the truth,

          Dee Dee
        • forisraelssake
          Dear Tim I wanted to clarify. The story is more like this: Dee Dee was presented with an affidavit imposed by the session of the RPNA-GM warning her that she
          Message 4 of 30 , Mar 24, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear Tim

            I wanted to clarify. The story is more like this:

            Dee Dee was presented with an affidavit imposed by the session of the
            RPNA-GM warning her that she was being accused of unknown sin X with
            charges that were filed with the session in good order, and
            consequently she was required upon lawful authority with lawful
            jurisdiction over her to swear the lawful affidavit (as was her
            alleged duty) in order for the case over X to go to trial.

            Dee Dee was privately counseled by Rev. Greg Price to swear the
            affidavit despite her known questions and doubts against the very
            things in the affidavit oath that one affirmed one had no doubts or
            questions concerning, and that it would not be a lie to swear the
            affidavit. Dee Dee didn't/wouldn't/couldn't swear the affidavit, not
            being persuaded, creating a new sin A, that of refusing to swear the
            affidavit.

            She was then immediately excommunicated by the session of the RPNA-GM
            for sin A. Sin X was tabled as it had become irrelevant and was
            technically never decided on.

            Sin X was privately admitted to her and others to be familiar
            fellowship with others who had sinned sin A themselves and were
            presently excommunicated by the session of the RPNA-GM, with the
            accusing party of familiar fellowship against Dee Dee being the
            session of the RPNA-GM and the judging party being the same session of
            the RPNA-GM.

            So the controversies are not quite as you stated below, but
            nonetheless very serious obviously

            Sincerely,
            Chris


            'excommunicated'



            > Tim writes:
            >
            > Dear Dee Dee
            >

            > Observing what has been said so far, if I understand you correctly in
            > the above, you have said that you were excommunicated without the
            > specifics of the charges being made known to you and that those
            > charges would be made known to you only if you signed an oath that
            > committed you to a statement that you had no questions about issues
            > where you had questions; and an elder claimed that your signing the
            > statement under such circumstances would not be a lie.
            >
          • Ic Neltococayotl
            Chris, Hey my brother! I see you signed off as excommunicated . So did they commit you to Satan as well? Did the tyrants disclose what sin you had
            Message 5 of 30 , Mar 24, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Chris,

              Hey my brother! I see you signed off as 'excommunicated'. So did they
              commit you to Satan as well?
              Did the tyrants disclose what 'sin' you had committed? Who your
              accusers were?

              I am sure that there is a few more to be ex'ed real soon.


              Chris, take care i'll be in contact with you some more later...have a
              blessed Lord's Day.

              Edgar


              --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "forisraelssake"
              <c_tylor@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Tim
              >
              > I wanted to clarify. The story is more like this:
              >
              > Dee Dee was presented with an affidavit imposed by the session of the
              > RPNA-GM warning her that she was being accused of unknown sin X with
              > charges that were filed with the session in good order, and
              > consequently she was required upon lawful authority with lawful
              > jurisdiction over her to swear the lawful affidavit (as was her
              > alleged duty) in order for the case over X to go to trial.
              >
              > Dee Dee was privately counseled by Rev. Greg Price to swear the
              > affidavit despite her known questions and doubts against the very
              > things in the affidavit oath that one affirmed one had no doubts or
              > questions concerning, and that it would not be a lie to swear the
              > affidavit. Dee Dee didn't/wouldn't/couldn't swear the affidavit, not
              > being persuaded, creating a new sin A, that of refusing to swear the
              > affidavit.
              >
              > She was then immediately excommunicated by the session of the RPNA-GM
              > for sin A. Sin X was tabled as it had become irrelevant and was
              > technically never decided on.
              >
              > Sin X was privately admitted to her and others to be familiar
              > fellowship with others who had sinned sin A themselves and were
              > presently excommunicated by the session of the RPNA-GM, with the
              > accusing party of familiar fellowship against Dee Dee being the
              > session of the RPNA-GM and the judging party being the same session of
              > the RPNA-GM.
              >
              > So the controversies are not quite as you stated below, but
              > nonetheless very serious obviously
              >
              > Sincerely,
              > Chris
              >
              >
              > 'excommunicated'
              >
              >
              >
              > > Tim writes:
              > >
              > > Dear Dee Dee
              > >
              >
              > > Observing what has been said so far, if I understand you correctly
              in
              > > the above, you have said that you were excommunicated without the
              > > specifics of the charges being made known to you and that those
              > > charges would be made known to you only if you signed an oath that
              > > committed you to a statement that you had no questions about issues
              > > where you had questions; and an elder claimed that your signing the
              > > statement under such circumstances would not be a lie.
              > >
              >
            • humbled.learner
              I m still out of the country, but using the hotel computer for checking the messages. Dee wrote: I in no way intended to imply by omission that I had not had
              Message 6 of 30 , Mar 25, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                I'm still out of the country, but using the hotel computer for
                checking the messages.

                Dee wrote:

                "I in no way intended to imply by omission that I had not had any
                communication with Greg Price or the other elders. If anyone got the
                impression that occurred, please forgive me. I was not trying to be
                misleading or deceptive as Ginny has implied in her private emails to
                me. ***I was simply trying to use as few words as possible to refute
                Walt's insinuations that all who have been excommunicated were
                involved with the "Effort".***"

                This is deception in my opinion as I have not tried to insinuate all
                that have been excommunicated were involved in the Effort. I would go
                so far as to say that the Effort People did create the underlying
                arguments and opinions that lead (in some respects, and really
                specifically in Dee Dee case as she wrote that she wanted her name
                added to the Effort document) to many to self-excommunicate themselves.

                I read Dee Dee comments below that triggered Jerry's reply, and the
                flurry of replies in her support, and found it unsupported by the
                truth. Jerry has withheld one of my posts from being posted as I was
                trying to go through some of the procedure that is normally followed
                based upon allegations. Unfortunately, when it is sent, it is not
                saved in Yahoo so I don't have a copy, but I understand that selective
                posting is understandable if Jerry feels like my posts should not be
                posted. I responded in detail to Marc as to the process I feel one
                uses to back up an allegation, as we know that all facts are never
                known once an allegation is made against someone. It is only after
                levels of discovery that we learn of all the documents and facts to
                prepare a case.

                As I read through these comments below, I can see that people forget
                one main point. The charges brought before those people initially
                were in order, and to be made available, ONLY if there was given
                permission for the court to hear the case as a member (e.g.,
                jurisdiction granted via mutual consent) and also acknowledging by the
                parties they believed the court to be a lawful court and uphold the
                churches subordinate standards. This is how I SIMPLY read the oath.

                Clearly, if you read the early responses to the oath, some denied
                membership in the church, but only in societies. Some rejected that
                the RPNA (GM) was a church, but only group of societies...as one phone
                call I had with a brother put me outside the RPNA (GM) as a member of
                a church, and they argued I was not even a member of a society because
                I was only one person in the wilderness, and could not possibly be a
                member of the RPNA (GM). Some rejected the additional subordinate
                standards on our web site were not lawful, and could not bind their
                consciences since they were never agreed to be a lawful court. Some
                argued that a lawful Session court could only be local defined by
                jurisdiction boundaries, and acceptable mutual duties, not by mutual
                consent and agreement between member and court.

                I think if someone goes through the primary documents written by the
                Elders in the response to these brethren (whom generally, in majority,
                involved in the Effort) you will see a lot of Q&A in your mind. If
                like Jerry you simply glance through 25 pages then you might not fully
                understand the extent of the communications. The first thing that
                comes to mind as Chris has said is "a cult". This is the hot button
                I've heard him use before, and the more people that will ignore the
                documents, and use the word "cult" the more it will become sexy for
                those to go public with sensational comments like what Dee Dee made
                below. I'm even surprised at the level of Edgar's summaries, as they
                are written with such firm conviction that it sounds like they poor
                little sheep were just rolled over by the great tyrannts, and they
                were only just studying as innocent students.

                Hopefully this message gets through.

                Walt.
              • humbled.learner
                opps, a little late now...already got the fire burning HOT with follow-up words like cult and Dee Dee, PLEASE, please, tell me you re kidding. Please? gmw.
                Message 7 of 30 , Mar 25, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  opps, a little late now...already got the fire burning HOT with
                  follow-up words like "cult" and Dee Dee, PLEASE, please, tell me
                  you're kidding. Please? gmw."

                  Indeed, the best response after the damage is done, is:

                  "It was late, and I was tired, and not paying close attention. My
                  husband has pointed out that I confused some details. Actually the
                  above should state that the second 24 hour time frame occurred after
                  receiving a letter from Greg stating he hadn't read my defense
                  regarding *not removing my name from the CI and not publicly
                  repenting for 'joining hands' with my brethren who penned it.* I was
                  officially served the *oath* (though the essence of it was contained
                  in the 'brotherly letter' dated Dec 1st) less than 24 hours later,
                  *not excommunicated.*"

                  I'm really not sure how someone could make such an important
                  mistake, but whatever the reason, it sure got everyone to look at
                  the Elders like some extreme Tyrants.

                  I think this is wrong in my opinion, but let's see if it gets
                  through.

                  Walt.


                  --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "nocost2great"
                  <manna4free@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "nocost2great"
                  > <manna4free@> wrote:
                  > Dee Dee wrote:
                  > > For further clarification (in part 2 of the correspondence),
                  I'll
                  > > add that it was not a single incident. Another 24 hour time
                  frame
                  > > occured when I received a letter from Greg stating that he had
                  not
                  > > yet read my letter of defense for not signing the oath (and that
                  > he
                  > > hoped to reply the next week.) The next day I was
                  excommunicated,
                  > > and the defense letter was not responded to until 6 days
                  later...
                  > > basically proving that the excommunication was impending
                  > regardless
                  > > of what biblical responses were received in defense of not
                  signing
                  > > the oath.
                  > >
                  > Correction:
                  >
                  > It was late, and I was tired, and not paying close attention. My
                  > husband has pointed out that I confused some details. Actually the
                  > above should state that the second 24 hour time frame occurred
                  after
                  > receiving a letter from Greg stating he hadn't read my defense
                  > regarding *not removing my name from the CI and not publicly
                  > repenting for 'joining hands' with my brethren who penned it.* I
                  was
                  > officially served the *oath* (though the essence of it was
                  contained
                  > in the 'brotherly letter' dated Dec 1st) less than 24 hours later,
                  > *not excommunicated.*
                  > I will also note that I did receive a 'response' to my post "Our
                  > ninth commandment duties" before being excommunicated. No diaolgue
                  > ensued, it was just Greg's response to defend himself publicly,
                  > stating he felt that I had misrepresented him, and to Shawn's
                  > questions of clarification (not mine) which was copied to me on
                  the
                  > same day the excommunications were issued.
                  > Again please forgive me for getting letters confused - oath vs
                  > excommunication. For those of us who had issues with the
                  > discrepancies between practice and biblical and historical
                  testimony
                  > they are actually one and the same; the oath was just the
                  precursor
                  > to the excommuication. But I don't want to be accused of
                  > untruthfulness, even if accidental.
                  >
                  > Standing for the truth,
                  >
                  > Dee Dee
                  >
                • Walt Bre
                  Katrina, Would you post the entire excommunication document to this site so everyone may read the reasons you were excommunicated? I cannot comment on the
                  Message 8 of 30 , Mar 25, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Katrina,
                     
                    Would you post the entire excommunication document to this site so everyone may read the reasons you were excommunicated?  I cannot comment on the discussions below, but think that if you post the entire excommunication on this site it will give everyone the reasons you were excommunicated.
                     
                    Walt.

                    Katrina Schumacher <triple3ranch@...> wrote:
                     
                    Dear List;
                     
                    I think that Dee Dee has nothing to fear from Ginny Dohms posting what ever Ginny wants, here on the list, after all it is the Lord that
                    truly knows all that has occurred and all the heart intents of those involved, and even if, Dee Dee needs to please
                    her husband and not post publicly here, the Lord always raises up someone to defend the good names of
                    His children; so Dee Dee dear; please rest in this.
                     
                    That, Dee Dee, stated that she was  given less than 24 hours is consistent with my last phone conversations with the two Elders from Edmonton
                    in April 2005;
                    I want to add that my email (april 2005) to the three Elders did express some of the  concerns of Elder Dohms as well. Before I sent this email to the
                    three Elders (Price, Barrow, Dohms) I first read it over the phone to Elder Lyndon Dohms
                      and Lyndon stated that he found nothing wrong
                    with it; to go ahead and send it.....my mistake was in CCing it to my family; and this action caused Lyndon to withdraw his support.
                    Lyndon told this to me during the following phone conversation that had both Lyndon and Elder Barrow present;  then while on the phone with
                    these two men; I asked for two weeks, to have any action delayed until after my flight to Albany in order to visit with my children there, attend
                    the wedding of Ed and Hanna (who had so kindly set their wedding date to accommodate my visit) and
                    to be able to witness the baptism of my little grand daughter Emily Price.   I then would have been able to talk to pastor
                    Greg Price in person about my concerns while in Albany New York....and I then in this same phone conversation; told the Elders from Edmonton that my flight plans were to fly from
                    Albany New York to Edmonton Alberta; to be
                     in person at Edmonton to be present for my daughter Doralynne's birth of her first child (Doralynne is also married to Lydon and Ginny Dohms' son Jordan)...and I then could talk face to
                    face with Greg Barrow and Lyndon Dohms.  I was told by Greg Barrow that my children in Albany would not want to see
                    me and that Ed and Hanna would not want me at their wedding.... I was being emotionally pushed to repent for my letter to the Elders that
                    addressed my concerns and also pushed to agree to a gag order to never speak against the Elders again in the future...
                    So on the emotion of the moment, the pain of the handling of these Elders on the phone.... I asked for twenty minutes to pray about my decision,
                    and the Elders(Lyndon and Greg B) phoned back in an hour and I was officially excommunicated just like that....... I canceled my
                    flight to Albany with the return trip through Edmonton; this trip a gift paid for and given to me by a dear friend, just three months prior
                    after the death of Grant my first husband.
                     
                     The two Elders involved in this phone excommunication, probably do not recall much of that conversation, and would no
                    doubt refute that anything was said to me by Greg Barrow  about the wedding or the planned visits to my children; that Lyndon witnessed Greg Barrow's words
                    .....or even of Lyndon telling
                    me to go ahead and send off my email to the three Elders(including himself).... ......
                    so just my word....against, .... but heaven did witness this treatment to a new widow.....
                     
                     I need to learn more about what is proper Church Court Behavior, I do not believe my concerns or that of the recent excommunicated
                    were handled properly.
                     
                    To readers of the Covenanted Reformation Club posts; if you have not already gone to Bob Sutton's blog; you
                    can read for yourself a well thought out and prayerful Response of one of the resent Excommunicated,
                    I think Stan has done a good balanced job of putting forth the responsibility of the remaining membership of
                    the former RPNA.
                     
                    "At the voice of thy cry; when He shall hear it, He will answer thee."
                    Isaiah 30:19
                     
                    Sincerely and Prayerfully written;
                    that some good and not more harm would come from my testimony.
                     
                    Katrina Schumacher
                    CRCNA
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     


                    From: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:covenantedr eformationclub@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of nocost2great
                    Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 6:36 AM
                    To: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
                    Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Learn Jurisdiction and the Power of Christ

                    --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, Jerry
                    <ragingcalvinist@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Dee Dee,
                    >
                    > PLEASE, please, tell me you're kidding. Please?
                    >
                    > gmw.
                    >
                    Jerry,
                    I wish I could. I woke up this morning to find a challenge from Ginny
                    to tell the whole story, so I will format and post the 'dialogue'
                    between Greg Price and me before the public sin of having familar
                    fellowship was committed.
                    I find myself between a rock and a hard spot though. If I bow out, I
                    will give Ginny leave to tell what happened third party, and only
                    based on information she has garnered via emails. If I continue, I
                    will offend my husband even more by publicly testifying. There are
                    times though when the heart can not keep silent, and the ninth
                    commandment compells us to tell the truth. Ginny has threatened to set
                    the record straight if I don't repent publicly by this evening. There
                    is no way for me to dig up and format everything by then, but I would
                    like to put it in an orderly document so that it is easier to follow.
                    Hopefully I can get that done this week, but we are scheduled to go
                    out of town Thursday morning, and preparations have to be made for
                    that.

                    I will confess that I have to just *assume* this was the sin I was
                    charged with, because it was the only sin I was approached about (and
                    it was less than 24 hours.) Since the accuser/accusations remain
                    secret until the oath is sworn, there is really no way to tell for
                    sure.

                    Upholding the Truth,

                    Dee Dee



                    Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                    Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.


                    TV dinner still cooling?
                    Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

                  • gmw
                    ... What in the world are you accusing me of, exactly? I don t recall ever withholding any of your posts. The only thing I remember is that time where your
                    Message 9 of 30 , Mar 25, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "humbled.learner"
                      <humbled.learner@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Jerry has withheld one of my posts from being posted as I was
                      > trying to go through some of the procedure that is normally followed
                      > based upon allegations. Unfortunately, when it is sent, it is not
                      > saved in Yahoo so I don't have a copy, but I understand that selective
                      > posting is understandable if Jerry feels like my posts should not be
                      > posted.


                      What in the world are you accusing me of, exactly? I don't recall
                      ever withholding any of your posts. The only thing I remember is that
                      time where your posts were delayed (not withheld, but delayed) when my
                      computer blew up and I had no access to the internet, and you couldn't
                      understand that my computer blew up and I didn't have access to the
                      internet.

                      I certainly don't ever recall speaking to you about not following
                      proper procedure.

                      Please explain what you are talking about.

                      gmw.
                    • puritan_at_heart
                      Not that anyone needs me to, but I second that. Which is why I joined Jerry s group and ASK him to moderate my posts, knowing I not always think so well. Cos I
                      Message 10 of 30 , Mar 25, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Not that anyone needs me to, but I second that. Which is why I joined Jerry's group and ASK him to moderate my posts, knowing I not always think so well. Cos I know he can completely be trusted that way, and is fair. I not ever been in another group who I've asked the group owner the same thing.  Cos they not been so trustworthy IMO, and I been in lots of  Reformed groups at different times.

                        ~Deejay


                        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Wilkinson" <gpyp@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Walt,
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > because everyone here knows Jerry to be honest, forthright and fair in his
                        > moderation. >
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > Susan
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > From: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        > humbled.learner
                        > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 7:24 AM
                        > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: Correction
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > opps, a little late now...already got the fire burning HOT with
                        > follow-up words like "cult" and Dee Dee, PLEASE, please, tell me
                        > you're kidding. Please? gmw."
                        >
                        > Indeed, the best response after the damage is done, is:
                        >
                        > "It was late, and I was tired, and not paying close attention. My
                        > husband has pointed out that I confused some details. Actually the
                        > above should state that the second 24 hour time frame occurred after
                        > receiving a letter from Greg stating he hadn't read my defense
                        > regarding *not removing my name from the CI and not publicly
                        > repenting for 'joining hands' with my brethren who penned it.* I was
                        > officially served the *oath* (though the essence of it was contained
                        > in the 'brotherly letter' dated Dec 1st) less than 24 hours later,
                        > *not excommunicated.*"
                        >
                        > I'm really not sure how someone could make such an important
                        > mistake, but whatever the reason, it sure got everyone to look at
                        > the Elders like some extreme Tyrants.
                        >
                        > I think this is wrong in my opinion, but let's see if it gets
                        > through.
                        >
                        > Walt.
                        >
                        > --- In covenantedreformati
                        > <mailto:covenantedreformationclub%40yahoogroups.com> onclub@yahoogroups.com,
                        > "nocost2great"
                        > manna4free@ wrote:
                        > >
                        > > --- In covenantedreformati
                        > <mailto:covenantedreformationclub%40yahoogroups.com> onclub@yahoogroups.com,
                        > "nocost2great"
                        > > <manna4free@> wrote:
                        > > Dee Dee wrote:
                        > > > For further clarification (in part 2 of the correspondence),
                        > I'll
                        > > > add that it was not a single incident. Another 24 hour time
                        > frame
                        > > > occured when I received a letter from Greg stating that he had
                        > not
                        > > > yet read my letter of defense for not signing the oath (and that
                        > > he
                        > > > hoped to reply the next week.) The next day I was
                        > excommunicated,
                        > > > and the defense letter was not responded to until 6 days
                        > later...
                        > > > basically proving that the excommunication was impending
                        > > regardless
                        > > > of what biblical responses were received in defense of not
                        > signing
                        > > > the oath.
                        > > >
                        > > Correction:
                        > >
                        > > It was late, and I was tired, and not paying close attention. My
                        > > husband has pointed out that I confused some details. Actually the
                        > > above should state that the second 24 hour time frame occurred
                        > after
                        > > receiving a letter from Greg stating he hadn't read my defense
                        > > regarding *not removing my name from the CI and not publicly
                        > > repenting for 'joining hands' with my brethren who penned it.* I
                        > was
                        > > officially served the *oath* (though the essence of it was
                        > contained
                        > > in the 'brotherly letter' dated Dec 1st) less than 24 hours later,
                        > > *not excommunicated.*
                        > > I will also note that I did receive a 'response' to my post "Our
                        > > ninth commandment duties" before being excommunicated. No diaolgue
                        > > ensued, it was just Greg's response to defend himself publicly,
                        > > stating he felt that I had misrepresented him, and to Shawn's
                        > > questions of clarification (not mine) which was copied to me on
                        > the
                        > > same day the excommunications were issued.
                        > > Again please forgive me for getting letters confused - oath vs
                        > > excommunication. For those of us who had issues with the
                        > > discrepancies between practice and biblical and historical
                        > testimony
                        > > they are actually one and the same; the oath was just the
                        > precursor
                        > > to the excommuication. But I don't want to be accused of
                        > > untruthfulness, even if accidental.
                        > >
                        > > Standing for the truth,
                        > >
                        > > Dee Dee
                        > >
                        >

                      • humbled.learner
                        Susan, Thanks for this witness testimony against me as I ve heard it very clear and also apologise to you and others who were offended. It was obviously my
                        Message 11 of 30 , Mar 25, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Susan,

                          Thanks for this witness testimony against me as I've heard it very
                          clear and also apologise to you and others who were offended. It
                          was obviously my mistake, and making them so often helps me keep a
                          grip on the weaknesses I have in adequately defending my actions.
                          This has been another good lesson for me to see and confess my sin.
                          I hope you, and others offended, will too forgive me. This will be
                          my final post so not to make these type mistakes again on this forum.

                          I'm flying to another part of Africa early in the morning and then
                          back home to Michigan by Thursday. I will not be able to read your
                          or others comments, but will trust in the Lord that He will soften
                          your and Jerry's heart toward my mistake, and allow you both to
                          forgive me. Lord willing, should I make it back to Michigan as
                          planned, I will see your posts in response to my request.

                          Your brother in Christ,
                          Walt.

                          --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Wilkinson"
                          <gpyp@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Walt,
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I am weary of both your overt and implied accusations against
                          Jerry that
                          > your posts aren't going through. You are not helping your cause in
                          this
                          > because everyone here knows Jerry to be honest, forthright and
                          fair in his
                          > moderation. Please stop falsely accusing him or else bring proof
                          that you
                          > have been wronged by him. If it's true that one or more of your
                          posts
                          > haven't made it through there are a few other logical
                          possibilities as to
                          > why; you might want to consider that before you make assumptions
                          and public
                          > accusations.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Also as far as I'm concerned you've done a fabulous job of
                          demonstrating the
                          > veracity of the point of view of those you seek to refute.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Susan
                          >
                          >
                        • Katrina Schumacher
                          Walt; I give to you full leave to have Ginny post my email of April 2005 to the Elders to this forum....if it is posted in it s entirety, the email that I read
                          Message 12 of 30 , Mar 25, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Walt;
                             
                            I give to you full leave to have Ginny post my email of April 2005 to the Elders to this forum....if it is posted
                            in it's entirety, the email that I read aloud over the phone to Lyndon Dohms first before mailing.....that email voices all of my then concerns...and if folks want to then discuss what is written there, I'm game.
                             
                            ~Katrina~
                             


                            From: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Walt Bre
                            Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 5:51 AM
                            To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [Covenanted Reformation] Learn Jurisdiction and the Power of Christ

                            Katrina,
                             
                            Would you post the entire excommunication document to this site so everyone may read the reasons you were excommunicated?  I cannot comment on the discussions below, but think that if you post the entire excommunication on this site it will give everyone the reasons you were excommunicated.
                             
                            Walt.

                            Katrina Schumacher <triple3ranch@ platinum. ca> wrote:
                             
                            Dear List;
                            </ SPAN>
                            I think that Dee Dee has nothing to fear from Ginny Dohms posting what ever Ginny wants, here on the list, after all it is the Lord that
                            truly knows all that has occurred and all the heart intents of those involved, and even if, Dee Dee needs to please
                            her husband and not post publicly here, the Lord always raises up someone to defend the good names of
                            His children; so Dee Dee dear; please rest in this.
                             
                            That, Dee Dee, stated that she was  given less than 24 hours is consistent with my last phone conversations with the two Elders from Edmonton
                            in April 2005;
                            I want to add that my email (april 2005) to the three Elders did express s ome of the  concerns of Elder Dohms as well. Before I sent this email to the
                            three Elders (Price, Barrow, Dohms) I first read it over the phone to Elder Lyndon Dohms
                              and Lyndon stated that he found nothing wrong
                            with it; to go ahead and send it.....my mistake was in CCing it to my family; and this action caused Lyndon to withdraw his support.
                            Lyndon told this to me during the following phone conversation that had both Lyndon and Elder Barrow present;  then while on the phone with
                            these two men; I asked for two weeks, to have any action delayed until after my flight to Albany in order to visit with my children there, attend
                            the wedding of Ed and Hanna (who had so kindly set their wedding date to accommodate my visit) and
                            to be able to witness the baptism of my little grand daughter Emily Price.   I then would have been able to talk to pastor
                            Greg Price in person about my concerns while in Albany New York....and I then in this same phone conversation; told the Elders from Edmonton that my flight plans were to fly from
                            Albany New York to Edmonton Alberta; to be
                             in person at Edmonton to be present for my daughter Doralynne's birth of her first child (Doralynne is also married to Lydon and Ginny Dohms' son Jordan)...and I then could talk face to
                            face with Greg Barrow and Lyndon Dohms.  I was told by Greg Barrow that my children in Albany would not want to see
                            me and that Ed and Hanna would n ot want me at their wedding.... I was being emotionally pushed to repent for my letter to the Elders that
                            addressed my concerns and also pushed to agree to a gag order to never speak against the Elders again in the future...
                            So on the emotion of the moment, the pain of the handling of these Elders on the phone.... I asked for twenty minutes to pray about my decision,
                            and the Elders(Lyndon and Greg B) phoned back in an hour and I was officially excommunicated just like that....... I canceled my
                            flight to Albany with the return trip through Edmonton; this trip a gift paid for and given to me by a dear friend, just three months prior
                            after the death of Grant my first husband.
                             
                             The two Elders involved in this phone excommunication, probably do not recall much of that conversation, and would no
                            doubt refute that anything was said to me by Greg Barrow  about the wedding or the planned visits to my children; that Lyndon witnessed Greg Barrow's words
                            .....or even of Lyndon telling
                            me to go ahead and send off my email to the three Elders(including himself).... ......
                            so just my word....against, .... but heaven did witness this treatment to a new widow.....
                             
                             I need to learn more about what is proper Church Court Behavior, I do not believe my concerns or that of the recent excommunicated
                            were handled properly.
                             
                            To readers of the Covenanted Reformation Club posts; if you have not already gone to Bob Sutton's blog; you
                            can read for yourself a well thought out and prayerful Response of one of the resent Excommunicated,
                            I think Stan has done a good balanced job of putting forth the responsibility of the remaining membership of
                            the former RPNA.
                             
                            "At the voice of thy cry; when He shall hear it, He will answer thee."
                            Isaiah 30:19
                            Sincerely and Prayerfully written;
                            that some good and not more harm would come from my testimony.
                             
                            Katrina Schumacher
                            CRCNA
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             


                            From: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:covenantedr eformationclub@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of nocost2great
                            Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 6:36 AM
                            To: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com< BR>Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Learn Jurisdiction and the Power of Christ

                            --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, Jerry
                            <ragingcalvinist@ ...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Dee Dee,
                            >
                            > PLEASE, please, tell me you're kidding. Please?
                            >
                            > gmw.
                            >
                            Jerry,
                            I wish I could. I woke up this morning to find a challenge from Ginny
                            to tell the whole story, so I will format and post the 'dialogue'
                            between Greg Price and me before the public sin of having familar
                            fellowship was committed.
                            I find myself between a rock and a hard spot though. If I bow out, I
                            will give Ginny leave to tell what happened third party, and only
                            based on information she has garnered via emails. If I continue, I
                            will offend my husband even more by publicly testifying. There are times though when the heart can not keep silent, and the ninth
                            commandment compells us to tell the truth. Ginny has threatened to set
                            the record straight if I don't repent publicly by this evening. There
                            is no way for me to dig up and format everything by then, but I would
                            like to put it in an orderly document so that it is easier to follow.
                            Hopefully I can get that done this week, but we are scheduled to go
                            out of town Thursday morning, and preparations have to be made for
                            that.

                            I will confess that I have to just *assume* this was the sin I was
                            charged with, because it was the only sin I was approached about (and
                            it was less than 24 hours.) Since the accuser/accusations remain
                            secret until the oath is sworn, there is really no way to tell for
                            sure.

                            Upholding the Truth,

                            Dee Dee



                            Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                            Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.


                            TV dinner still cooling?
                            Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

                          • Tim Cunningham
                            Hello Katrina You also may post your email to this forum: you don t have to have someone else do it. Tim ... to the ... Lyndon Dohms ... concerns...and if ...
                            Message 13 of 30 , Mar 26, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hello Katrina

                              You also may post your email to this forum: you don't have to have
                              someone else do it.

                              Tim

                              --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Katrina
                              Schumacher" <triple3ranch@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Walt;
                              >
                              > I give to you full leave to have Ginny post my email of April 2005
                              to the
                              > Elders to this forum....if it is posted
                              > in it's entirety, the email that I read aloud over the phone to
                              Lyndon Dohms
                              > first before mailing.....that email voices all of my then
                              concerns...and if
                              > folks want to then discuss what is written there, I'm game.
                              >
                              > ~Katrina~
                              >
                              >
                              > _____
                              >
                              > From: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                              > [mailto:covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                              Walt Bre
                              > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 5:51 AM
                              > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: RE: [Covenanted Reformation] Learn Jurisdiction and the
                              Power of
                              > Christ
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Katrina,
                              >
                              > Would you post the entire excommunication document to this site so
                              everyone
                              > may read the reasons you were excommunicated? I cannot comment on
                              the
                              > discussions below, but think that if you post the entire
                              excommunication on
                              > this site it will give everyone the reasons you were excommunicated.
                              >
                              > Walt.
                              >
                              > Katrina Schumacher <triple3ranch@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Dear List;
                              >
                              > I think that Dee Dee has nothing to fear from Ginny Dohms posting
                              what ever
                              > Ginny wants, here on the list, after all it is the Lord that
                              > truly knows all that has occurred and all the heart intents of those
                              > involved, and even if, Dee Dee needs to please
                              > her husband and not post publicly here, the Lord always raises up
                              someone to
                              > defend the good names of
                              > His children; so Dee Dee dear; please rest in this.
                              >
                              > That, Dee Dee, stated that she was given less than 24 hours is
                              consistent
                              > with my last phone conversations with the two Elders from Edmonton
                              > in April 2005;
                              > I want to add that my email (april 2005) to the three Elders did
                              express s
                              > ome of the concerns of Elder Dohms as well. Before I sent this
                              email to the
                              > three Elders (Price, Barrow, Dohms) I first read it over the phone
                              to Elder
                              > Lyndon Dohms
                              > and Lyndon stated that he found nothing wrong
                              > with it; to go ahead and send it.....my mistake was in CCing it to
                              my
                              > family; and this action caused Lyndon to withdraw his support.
                              > Lyndon told this to me during the following phone conversation that
                              had both
                              > Lyndon and Elder Barrow present; then while on the phone with
                              > these two men; I asked for two weeks, to have any action delayed
                              until after
                              > my flight to Albany in order to visit with my children there, attend
                              > the wedding of Ed and Hanna (who had so kindly set their wedding
                              date to
                              > accommodate my visit) and
                              > to be able to witness the baptism of my little grand daughter Emily
                              Price.
                              > I then would have been able to talk to pastor
                              > Greg Price in person about my concerns while in Albany New
                              York....and I
                              > then in this same phone conversation; told the Elders from Edmonton
                              that my
                              > flight plans were to fly from
                              > Albany New York to Edmonton Alberta; to be
                              > in person at Edmonton to be present for my daughter Doralynne's
                              birth of
                              > her first child (Doralynne is also married to Lydon and Ginny
                              Dohms' son
                              > Jordan)...and I then could talk face to
                              > face with Greg Barrow and Lyndon Dohms. I was told by Greg Barrow
                              that my
                              > children in Albany would not want to see
                              > me and that Ed and Hanna would n ot want me at their wedding.... I
                              was being
                              > emotionally pushed to repent for my letter to the Elders that
                              > addressed my concerns and also pushed to agree to a gag order to
                              never speak
                              > against the Elders again in the future...
                              > So on the emotion of the moment, the pain of the handling of these
                              Elders on
                              > the phone.... I asked for twenty minutes to pray about my decision,
                              > and the Elders(Lyndon and Greg B) phoned back in an hour and I was
                              > officially excommunicated just like that....... I canceled my
                              > flight to Albany with the return trip through Edmonton; this trip a
                              gift
                              > paid for and given to me by a dear friend, just three months prior
                              > after the death of Grant my first husband.
                              >
                              > The two Elders involved in this phone excommunication, probably do
                              not
                              > recall much of that conversation, and would no
                              > doubt refute that anything was said to me by Greg Barrow about the
                              wedding
                              > or the planned visits to my children; that Lyndon witnessed Greg
                              Barrow's
                              > words
                              > .....or even of Lyndon telling
                              > me to go ahead and send off my email to the three Elders(including
                              > himself)..........
                              > so just my word....against,.... but heaven did witness this
                              treatment to a
                              > new widow.....
                              >
                              > I need to learn more about what is proper Church Court Behavior, I
                              do not
                              > believe my concerns or that of the recent excommunicated
                              > were handled properly.
                              >
                              > To readers of the Covenanted Reformation Club posts; if you have
                              not already
                              > gone to Bob Sutton's blog; you
                              > can read for yourself a well thought out and prayerful Response of
                              one of
                              > the resent Excommunicated,
                              > Stan B. http://reformedveri
                              > <http://reformedveritas.blogspot.com/2007/03/31007-for-your-
                              consideration-re
                              > sponse.html>
                              > tas.blogspot.com/2007/03/31007-for-your-consideration-response.html
                              > written on March 10/07
                              > I think Stan has done a good balanced job of putting forth the
                              > responsibility of the remaining membership of
                              > the former RPNA.
                              >
                              > "At the voice of thy cry; when He shall hear it, He will answer
                              thee."
                              > Isaiah 30:19
                              >
                              > Sincerely and Prayerfully written;
                              > that some good and not more harm would come from my testimony.
                              >
                              > Katrina Schumacher
                              > CRCNA
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > _____
                              >
                              > From: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                              > [mailto:covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                              nocost2great
                              > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 6:36 AM
                              > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com< BR>Subject: Re:
                              [Covenanted
                              > Reformation] Learn Jurisdiction and the Power of Christ
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In covenantedreformati
                              > <mailto:covenantedreformationclub%40yahoogroups.com>
                              onclub@yahoogroups.com,
                              > Jerry
                              > <ragingcalvinist@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Dee Dee,
                              > >
                              > > PLEASE, please, tell me you're kidding. Please?
                              > >
                              > > gmw.
                              > >
                              > Jerry,
                              > I wish I could. I woke up this morning to find a challenge from
                              Ginny
                              > to tell the whole story, so I will format and post the 'dialogue'
                              > between Greg Price and me before the public sin of having familar
                              > fellowship was committed.
                              > I find myself between a rock and a hard spot though. If I bow out,
                              I
                              > will give Ginny leave to tell what happened third party, and only
                              > based on information she has garnered via emails. If I continue, I
                              > will offend my husband even more by publicly testifying. There are
                              times
                              > though when the heart can not keep silent, and the ninth
                              > commandment compells us to tell the truth. Ginny has threatened to
                              set
                              > the record straight if I don't repent publicly by this evening.
                              There
                              > is no way for me to dig up and format everything by then, but I
                              would
                              > like to put it in an orderly document so that it is easier to
                              follow.
                              > Hopefully I can get that done this week, but we are scheduled to go
                              > out of town Thursday morning, and preparations have to be made for
                              > that.
                              >
                              > I will confess that I have to just *assume* this was the sin I was
                              > charged with, because it was the only sin I was approached about
                              (and
                              > it was less than 24 hours.) Since the accuser/accusations remain
                              > secret until the oath is sworn, there is really no way to tell for
                              > sure.
                              >
                              > Upholding the Truth,
                              >
                              > Dee Dee
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > _____
                              >
                              > Expecting? Get great news right away with email
                              >
                              <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49982/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com
                              /mailb
                              > eta/newmail_tools.html> Auto-Check.
                              > Try the Yahoo!
                              >
                              <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49982/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com
                              /mailb
                              > eta/newmail_tools.html> Mail Beta.
                              >
                              >
                              > _____
                              >
                              > TV dinner still cooling?
                              > Check out <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49979/*http://tv.yahoo.com/>
                              > "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
                              >
                            • Katrina Schumacher
                              Yes Tim, I realize that I can post at will.....however I d prefer that it was okay with the Dohms household what was posted, in response to Walt. It is my
                              Message 14 of 30 , Mar 26, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Yes Tim,
                                 
                                I realize that I can post at will.....however I'd prefer that it was okay
                                with the Dohms household what was posted, in response to Walt.
                                 
                                It is my personal email to the Elders that expresses concerns on more than one point.
                                That email is also very direct in naming what I and Lyndon Dohms thought were personal
                                weaknesses of the two Gregs.....so again, if Ginny wants to post it through
                                Gerry is one thing, and me being willing to post it without Ginny and Lyndon's
                                go ahead is another.
                                 
                                Walt probably only knows about the 'so called official  Cathie Soles Excommunication notice" that
                                went out over the internet to former RPNA members. This notice does not address
                                my concerns of April 2005; instead that action of excommunicating me, gave the Elders; 
                                a neat and tidy way of closing the matter.
                                 
                                Reading over Samantha Elossais documents,  Dee Dee's , Edgar, Bob, Stan B., Chris Tylor,
                                the Tarons, I am weary of it all....the problems, the consequences of mishandling
                                just become deeper, higher, wider...the fruit of it all so Spoiled
                                 
                                Truly a sad history to weep over.
                                 
                                Isaiah 30:19
                                "At the voice of thy cry;
                                when  He shall hear it, He will answer thee."
                                 
                                ~Katrina Schumacher~
                                 
                                Communicate member of the CRCNA
                                and yes the elders of  the two CRCNA churches that I've worshiped
                                 with since that excommunication
                                were fully told of the details and the concerns of April 2005..
                                I was warmly welcomed to their care. 
                                I feel that the Lord has not allowed me to be greatly harmed, 
                                He has been most merciful in not allowing my health to be harmed,
                                He has kept my spirit from falling into great bitterness;
                                He has used Shepherds, outside of the former RPNA;
                                Shepherds who have made of the Lord's Word a warm healing balm;
                                A Healing Balm, that has been applied to my wounds.
                                I am loved and cared for.


                                From: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Cunningham
                                Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 8:00 AM
                                To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Learn Jurisdiction and the Power of Christ

                                Hello Katrina

                                You also may post your email to this forum: you don't have to have
                                someone else do it.

                                Tim

                                --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, "Katrina
                                Schumacher" <triple3ranch@ ...> wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                Walt;
                                >
                                > I give to you full leave to have Ginny post my email of
                                April 2005
                                to the
                                > Elders to this forum....if it is posted
                                > in
                                it's entirety, the email that I read aloud over the phone to
                                Lyndon Dohms
                                > first before mailing..... that email voices all of my then
                                concerns...and if
                                > folks want to then discuss what is written there,
                                I'm game.
                                >
                                > ~Katrina~
                                >
                                >
                                > _____
                                >
                                > From:
                                href="mailto:covenantedreformationclub%40yahoogroups.com">covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
                                >
                                [mailto:covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf Of
                                Walt Bre
                                > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 5:51 AM
                                >
                                To: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
                                >
                                Subject: RE: [Covenanted Reformation] Learn Jurisdiction and the
                                Power of
                                > Christ
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Katrina,
                                >
                                > Would you post the entire excommunication document to this site so
                                everyone
                                > may read the reasons you were excommunicated? I cannot
                                comment on
                                the
                                > discussions below, but think that if you post the
                                entire
                                excommunication on
                                > this site it will give everyone the
                                reasons you were excommunicated.
                                >
                                > Walt.
                                >
                                > Katrina
                                Schumacher <triple3ranch@ ...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Dear
                                List;
                                >
                                > I think that Dee Dee has nothing to fear from Ginny Dohms
                                posting
                                what ever
                                > Ginny wants, here on the list, after all it is the
                                Lord that
                                > truly knows all that has occurred and all the heart intents of
                                those
                                > involved, and even if, Dee Dee needs to please
                                > her husband
                                and not post publicly here, the Lord always raises up
                                someone to
                                >
                                defend the good names of
                                > His children; so Dee Dee dear; please rest in
                                this.
                                >
                                > That, Dee Dee, stated that she was given less than 24
                                hours is
                                consistent
                                > with my last phone conversations with the two
                                Elders from Edmonton
                                > in April 2005;
                                > I want to add that my email
                                (april 2005) to the three Elders did
                                express s
                                > ome of the concerns
                                of Elder Dohms as well. Before I sent this
                                email to the
                                > three Elders
                                (Price, Barrow, Dohms) I first read it over the phone
                                to Elder
                                >
                                Lyndon Dohms
                                > and Lyndon stated that he found nothing wrong
                                > with
                                it; to go ahead and send it.....my mistake was in CCing it to
                                my
                                >
                                family; and this action caused Lyndon to withdraw his support.
                                > Lyndon
                                told this to me during the following phone conversation that
                                had both
                                > Lyndon and Elder Barrow present; then while on the phone with
                                > these two men; I asked for two weeks, to have any action delayed
                                until after
                                > my flight to Albany in order to visit with my children
                                there, attend
                                > the wedding of Ed and Hanna (who had so kindly set their
                                wedding
                                date to
                                > accommodate my visit) and
                                > to be able to
                                witness the baptism of my little grand daughter Emily
                                Price.
                                > I then
                                would have been able to talk to pastor
                                > Greg Price in person about my
                                concerns while in Albany New
                                York....and I
                                > then in this same phone
                                conversation; told the Elders from Edmonton
                                that my
                                > flight plans
                                were to fly from
                                > Albany New York to Edmonton Alberta; to be
                                > in
                                person at Edmonton to be present for my daughter Doralynne's
                                birth of
                                > her first child (Doralynne is also married to Lydon and Ginny
                                Dohms' son
                                > Jordan)...and I then could talk face to
                                > face with
                                Greg Barrow and Lyndon Dohms. I was told by Greg Barrow
                                that my
                                >
                                children in Albany would not want to see
                                > me and that Ed and Hanna would
                                n ot want me at their wedding.... I
                                was being
                                > emotionally pushed to
                                repent for my letter to the Elders that
                                > addressed my concerns and also
                                pushed to agree to a gag order to
                                never speak
                                > against the Elders
                                again in the future...
                                > So on the emotion of the moment, the pain of the
                                handling of these
                                Elders on
                                > the phone.... I asked for twenty minutes
                                to pray about my decision,
                                > and the Elders(Lyndon and Greg B) phoned back
                                in an hour and I was
                                > officially excommunicated just like that....... I
                                canceled my
                                > flight to Albany with the return trip through Edmonton; this
                                trip a
                                gift
                                > paid for and given to me by a dear friend, just three
                                months prior
                                > after the death of Grant my first husband.
                                >
                                >
                                The two Elders involved in this phone excommunication, probably do
                                not
                                > recall much of that conversation, and would no
                                > doubt
                                refute that anything was said to me by Greg Barrow about the
                                wedding
                                >
                                or the planned visits to my children; that Lyndon witnessed Greg
                                Barrow's
                                > words
                                > .....or even of Lyndon telling
                                > me to
                                go ahead and send off my email to the three Elders(including
                                >
                                himself).... ......
                                > so just my word....against, .... but heaven
                                did witness this
                                treatment to a
                                > new widow.....
                                >
                                > I
                                need to learn more about what is proper Church Court Behavior, I
                                do not
                                > believe my concerns or that of the recent excommunicated
                                >
                                were handled properly.
                                >
                                > To readers of the Covenanted Reformation
                                Club posts; if you have
                                not already
                                > gone to Bob Sutton's blog;
                                you
                                > can read for yourself a well thought out and prayerful Response of
                                one of
                                > the resent Excommunicated,
                                > Stan B.
                                href="http://reformedveri">http://reformedveri
                                > <
                                href="http://reformedveritas.blogspot.com/2007/03/31007-for-your-">http://reformedveri tas.blogspot. com/2007/ 03/31007- for-your-
                                consideration- re
                                >
                                sponse.html>
                                >
                                tas.blogspot. com/2007/ 03/31007- for-your- consideration- response. html
                                >
                                written on March 10/07
                                > I think Stan has done a good balanced job of
                                putting forth the
                                > responsibility of the remaining membership of
                                >
                                the former RPNA.
                                >
                                > "At the voice of thy cry; when He shall hear
                                it, He will answer
                                thee."
                                > Isaiah 30:19
                                >
                                > Sincerely
                                and Prayerfully written;
                                > that some good and not more harm would come
                                from my testimony.
                                >
                                > Katrina Schumacher
                                >
                                CRCNA

                                .
                                >

                              • nocost2great
                                ... wrote: ... after ... was ... contained ... Walt, I won t comment on your insinuation there, but will ask that you note - being served
                                Message 15 of 30 , Mar 26, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "humbled.learner"
                                  <humbled.learner@...> wrote:
                                  Walt writes:
                                  > Indeed, the best response after the damage is done, is:
                                  >
                                  > "It was late, and I was tired, and not paying close attention. My
                                  > husband has pointed out that I confused some details. Actually the
                                  > above should state that the second 24 hour time frame occurred
                                  after
                                  > receiving a letter from Greg stating he hadn't read my defense
                                  > regarding *not removing my name from the CI and not publicly
                                  > repenting for 'joining hands' with my brethren who penned it.* I
                                  was
                                  > officially served the *oath* (though the essence of it was
                                  contained
                                  > in the 'brotherly letter' dated Dec 1st) less than 24 hours later,
                                  > *not excommunicated.*"
                                  >
                                  > I'm really not sure how someone could make such an important
                                  > mistake, but whatever the reason, it sure got everyone to look at
                                  > the Elders like some extreme Tyrants.
                                  >
                                  > I think this is wrong in my opinion, but let's see if it gets
                                  > through.
                                  >
                                  Walt,
                                  I won't comment on your insinuation there, but will ask that you
                                  note - being served the oath when the elders know you have questions
                                  regarding what they are asking you to swear, and in the same letter
                                  telling you that if you don't swear it you will be excommunicated...
                                  **and admitting to not even reading your letter of defense**... is
                                  really no different that going ahead and excommunicating you. Yes, I
                                  got the documents confused, but the intent to excommunicate was
                                  clear - crystal clear - when the oath was served. The short span of
                                  time between oath and excommunication is just a formality. I have
                                  not painted anyone as a tyrrant, but the actions are indicative of
                                  tyranny.
                                  And as for judicial procedure... I have asked many for a historical
                                  example of ANY court that required an oath granting lawful authority
                                  of those ruling before a case was tried, much less opened. I can
                                  imagine that we would all be in jail instead of excommunicated if it
                                  were our civil courts requiring this. Had the oath been left out, I
                                  don't think any of us would have failed to appear 'in court' to
                                  defend our good names, as the ninth commandment requires, even if we
                                  felt like it wouldn't be a fair trial. We could at least go on
                                  record with our defense instead of being denied due process.

                                  Standing for the truth,

                                  Dee Dee
                                • Chris Coldwell
                                  Dear Katrina, I m very thankful to the Lord for providing you the church home you have, where you have pastors for your soul s good, and that you have been
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Mar 27, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Dear Katrina,
                                    I'm very thankful to the Lord for providing you the church home you have,
                                    where you have pastors for your soul's good, and that you have been able to
                                    "move on" and that this ecclesiastical abuse has not burdened your soul.

                                    To clarify lest any take offense; my comments regarding the elders personal
                                    problems has to do with what I am unwilling to bring up in a general
                                    discussion of the validity of the excommunications as laid out in my
                                    original comment to Mr. Suden. I was not passing judgment on any who are in
                                    a position to have to deal with those matters; but it is not germane to that
                                    general question as far as I am concerned. If I show an abundance of caution
                                    here, it is simply that I don't want to be anything like those men.


                                    Sincerely,
                                    Chris Coldwell
                                    Naphtali Press http://www.naphtali.com
                                    The Confessional Presbyterian journal http://www.cpjournal.com
                                    Member Lakewood PCA, Dallas, Texas

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: notify@yahoogroups.com [mailto:notify@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                    Chris Coldwell
                                    Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 6:42 AM
                                    To: naphtali@...
                                    Subject: Fwd: RE: [Covenanted Reformation] Learn Jurisdiction and the Power
                                    of Christ

                                    --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Katrina Schumacher"
                                    <triple3ranch@...> wrote:

                                    Yes Tim,

                                    I realize that I can post at will.....however I'd prefer that it was okay
                                    with the Dohms household what was posted, in response to Walt.

                                    It is my personal email to the Elders that expresses concerns on more than
                                    one point.
                                    That email is also very direct in naming what I and Lyndon Dohms thought
                                    were personal
                                    weaknesses of the two Gregs.....so again, if Ginny wants to post it
                                    through
                                    Gerry is one thing, and me being willing to post it without Ginny and
                                    Lyndon's
                                    go ahead is another.

                                    Walt probably only knows about the 'so called official Cathie Soles
                                    Excommunication notice" that
                                    went out over the internet to former RPNA members. This notice does not
                                    address
                                    my concerns of April 2005; instead that action of excommunicating me, gave
                                    the Elders;
                                    a neat and tidy way of closing the matter.

                                    Reading over Samantha Elossais documents, Dee Dee's , Edgar, Bob,
                                    Stan B.,
                                    Chris Tylor,
                                    the Tarons, I am weary of it all....the problems, the consequences of
                                    mishandling
                                    just become deeper, higher, wider...the fruit of it all so Spoiled

                                    Truly a sad history to weep over.

                                    Isaiah 30:19
                                    "At the voice of thy cry;
                                    when He shall hear it, He will answer thee."

                                    ~Katrina Schumacher~

                                    Communicate member of the CRCNA
                                    and yes the elders of the two CRCNA churches that I've worshiped
                                    with since that excommunication
                                    were fully told of the details and the concerns of April 2005..
                                    I was warmly welcomed to their care.
                                    I feel that the Lord has not allowed me to be greatly harmed,
                                    He has been most merciful in not allowing my health to be harmed,
                                    He has kept my spirit from falling into great bitterness;
                                    He has used Shepherds, outside of the former RPNA;
                                    Shepherds who have made of the Lord's Word a warm healing balm;
                                    A Healing Balm, that has been applied to my wounds.
                                    I am loved and cared for.

                                    _____

                                    From: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                                    [mailto:covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
                                    Cunningham
                                    Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 8:00 AM
                                    To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Learn Jurisdiction and the Power of
                                    Christ



                                    Hello Katrina

                                    You also may post your email to this forum: you don't have to have
                                    someone else do it.

                                    Tim

                                    --- In covenantedreformati
                                    <mailto:covenantedreformationclub%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    onclub@yahoogroups.com,
                                    "Katrina
                                    Schumacher" <triple3ranch@> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Walt;
                                    >
                                    > I give to you full leave to have Ginny post my email of April 2005
                                    to the
                                    > Elders to this forum....if it is posted
                                    > in it's entirety, the email that I read aloud over the phone to
                                    Lyndon Dohms
                                    > first before mailing.....that email voices all of my then
                                    concerns...and if
                                    > folks want to then discuss what is written there, I'm game.
                                    >
                                    > ~Katrina~
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > _____
                                    >
                                    > From: covenantedreformati
                                    <mailto:covenantedreformationclub%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    onclub@yahoogroups.com
                                    > [mailto:covenantedreformati
                                    <mailto:covenantedreformationclub%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    onclub@yahoogroups.com]
                                    On Behalf Of
                                    Walt Bre
                                    > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 5:51 AM
                                    > To: covenantedreformati
                                    <mailto:covenantedreformationclub%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    onclub@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: RE: [Covenanted Reformation] Learn Jurisdiction and the
                                    Power of
                                    > Christ
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Katrina,
                                    >
                                    > Would you post the entire excommunication document to this site so
                                    everyone
                                    > may read the reasons you were excommunicated? I cannot comment on
                                    the
                                    > discussions below, but think that if you post the entire
                                    excommunication on
                                    > this site it will give everyone the reasons you were excommunicated.
                                    >
                                    > Walt.
                                    >
                                    > Katrina Schumacher <triple3ranch@> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Dear List;
                                    >
                                    > I think that Dee Dee has nothing to fear from Ginny Dohms posting
                                    what ever
                                    > Ginny wants, here on the list, after all it is the Lord that
                                    > truly knows all that has occurred and all the heart intents of those
                                    > involved, and even if, Dee Dee needs to please
                                    > her husband and not post publicly here, the Lord always raises up
                                    someone to
                                    > defend the good names of
                                    > His children; so Dee Dee dear; please rest in this.
                                    >
                                    > That, Dee Dee, stated that she was given less than 24 hours is
                                    consistent
                                    > with my last phone conversations with the two Elders from Edmonton
                                    > in April 2005;
                                    > I want to add that my email (april 2005) to the three Elders did
                                    express s
                                    > ome of the concerns of Elder Dohms as well. Before I sent this
                                    email to the
                                    > three Elders (Price, Barrow, Dohms) I first read it over the phone
                                    to Elder
                                    > Lyndon Dohms
                                    > and Lyndon stated that he found nothing wrong
                                    > with it; to go ahead and send it.....my mistake was in CCing it to
                                    my
                                    > family; and this action caused Lyndon to withdraw his support.
                                    > Lyndon told this to me during the following phone conversation that
                                    had both
                                    > Lyndon and Elder Barrow present; then while on the phone with
                                    > these two men; I asked for two weeks, to have any action delayed
                                    until after
                                    > my flight to Albany in order to visit with my children there, attend
                                    > the wedding of Ed and Hanna (who had so kindly set their wedding
                                    date to
                                    > accommodate my visit) and
                                    > to be able to witness the baptism of my little grand daughter Emily
                                    Price.
                                    > I then would have been able to talk to pastor
                                    > Greg Price in person about my concerns while in Albany New
                                    York....and I
                                    > then in this same phone conversation; told the Elders from Edmonton
                                    that my
                                    > flight plans were to fly from
                                    > Albany New York to Edmonton Alberta; to be
                                    > in person at Edmonton to be present for my daughter Doralynne's
                                    birth of
                                    > her first child (Doralynne is also married to Lydon and Ginny
                                    Dohms' son
                                    > Jordan)...and I then could talk face to
                                    > face with Greg Barrow and Lyndon Dohms. I was told by Greg Barrow
                                    that my
                                    > children in Albany would not want to see
                                    > me and that Ed and Hanna would n ot want me at their wedding.... I
                                    was being
                                    > emotionally pushed to repent for my letter to the Elders that
                                    > addressed my concerns and also pushed to agree to a gag order to
                                    never speak
                                    > against the Elders again in the future...
                                    > So on the emotion of the moment, the pain of the handling of these
                                    Elders on
                                    > the phone.... I asked for twenty minutes to pray about my decision,
                                    > and the Elders(Lyndon and Greg B) phoned back in an hour and I was
                                    > officially excommunicated just like that....... I canceled my
                                    > flight to Albany with the return trip through Edmonton; this trip a
                                    gift
                                    > paid for and given to me by a dear friend, just three months prior
                                    > after the death of Grant my first husband.
                                    >
                                    > The two Elders involved in this phone excommunication, probably do
                                    not
                                    > recall much of that conversation, and would no
                                    > doubt refute that anything was said to me by Greg Barrow about the
                                    wedding
                                    > or the planned visits to my children; that Lyndon witnessed Greg
                                    Barrow's
                                    > words
                                    > .....or even of Lyndon telling
                                    > me to go ahead and send off my email to the three Elders(including
                                    > himself)..........
                                    > so just my word....against,.... but heaven did witness this
                                    treatment to a
                                    > new widow.....
                                    >
                                    > I need to learn more about what is proper Church Court Behavior, I
                                    do not
                                    > believe my concerns or that of the recent excommunicated
                                    > were handled properly.
                                    >
                                    > To readers of the Covenanted Reformation Club posts; if you have
                                    not already
                                    > gone to Bob Sutton's blog; you
                                    > can read for yourself a well thought out and prayerful Response of
                                    one of
                                    > the resent Excommunicated,
                                    > Stan B. http://reformedveri
                                    > <http://reformedveri
                                    <http://reformedveritas.blogspot.com/2007/03/31007-for-your->
                                    tas.blogspot.com/2007/03/31007-for-your-
                                    consideration-re
                                    > sponse.html>
                                    > tas.blogspot.com/2007/03/31007-for-your-consideration-response.html
                                    > written on March 10/07
                                    > I think Stan has done a good balanced job of putting forth the
                                    > responsibility of the remaining membership of
                                    > the former RPNA.
                                    >
                                    > "At the voice of thy cry; when He shall hear it, He will answer
                                    thee."
                                    > Isaiah 30:19
                                    >
                                    > Sincerely and Prayerfully written;
                                    > that some good and not more harm would come from my testimony.
                                    >
                                    > Katrina Schumacher
                                    > CRCNA

                                    .
                                    >

                                    --- End forwarded message ---
                                  • Whit R
                                    You are not alone in that assessment, Chris. I am beginning to think the same. Whit Roberts CLC Member, Free Church (Continuing) Visitor ... and ... the ...
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Mar 31, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      You are not alone in that assessment, Chris. I am beginning to think
                                      the same.

                                      Whit Roberts
                                      CLC Member, Free Church (Continuing) Visitor

                                      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Coldwell"
                                      <naphtali@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > While I have rejected the term in the past, this is sounding more
                                      and
                                      > more like a cult.
                                      > Sincerely,
                                      > Chris Coldwell
                                      > Naphtali Press http://www.naphtali.com
                                      > The Confessional Presbyterian journal http://www.cpjournal.com
                                      > Member Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Dallas, Texas
                                      > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Jerry
                                      > <ragingcalvinist@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Dee Dee,
                                      > >
                                      > > PLEASE, please, tell me you're kidding. Please?
                                      > >
                                      > > gmw.
                                      > >
                                      > > nocost2great wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > <mailto:covenantedreformationclub%40yahoogroups.com>, Tony
                                      > > > <amenendez78@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > What sayest thou of me, dear brother? I was not involved with
                                      the
                                      > > > Common
                                      > > > > Concern paper and I was still excommunicated.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Ah, and neither was I. My 'sin' was to say that I thought the
                                      > > > questions (in the CI) were good ones, and I wanted to be
                                      included
                                      > > > when answers were given. According to the elders, this was
                                      familiar
                                      > > > fellowship (though I had not communicated with
                                      > > > the 'excommunicated'.) I was given less than 24 hours to repent
                                      of
                                      > > > my 'sin' - and was served the oath. (The oath that requires one
                                      to
                                      > > > vow that they have no questions... when I had already publicly
                                      > > > expressed that I had questions.)I was even verbally told by one
                                      of
                                      > > > the elders that it would not be lying to swear the oath, even
                                      though
                                      > > > I had questions! Actually, I think God used the treatment I
                                      received
                                      > > > to open my eyes even wider so that I might see.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > For His Glory,
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Dee Dee
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • humbled.learner
                                      Susan, thank you as well for forgiving me. I have learned a good lesson from this situation and will endeavor to keep my words closely guarded in the future.
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Apr 1, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Susan, thank you as well for forgiving me. I have learned a good
                                        lesson from this situation and will endeavor to keep my words closely
                                        guarded in the future. It indeed is a learned skill and will come
                                        from the practice of less talking and more listening. May the Lord be
                                        with you, Walt.

                                        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Wilkinson"
                                        <gpyp@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I forgive you, Walt. Thank you for clearing the air.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Susan
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > _____
                                        >
                                        > From: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                                        > [mailto:covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                        > humbled.learner
                                        > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 1:51 PM
                                        > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: Walt
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Susan,
                                        >
                                        > Thanks for this witness testimony against me as I've heard it very
                                        > clear and also apologise to you and others who were offended. It
                                        > was obviously my mistake, and making them so often helps me keep a
                                        > grip on the weaknesses I have in adequately defending my actions.
                                        > This has been another good lesson for me to see and confess my sin.
                                        > I hope you, and others offended, will too forgive me. This will be
                                        > my final post so not to make these type mistakes again on this forum.
                                        >
                                        > I'm flying to another part of Africa early in the morning and then
                                        > back home to Michigan by Thursday. I will not be able to read your
                                        > or others comments, but will trust in the Lord that He will soften
                                        > your and Jerry's heart toward my mistake, and allow you both to
                                        > forgive me. Lord willing, should I make it back to Michigan as
                                        > planned, I will see your posts in response to my request.
                                        >
                                        > Your brother in Christ,
                                        > Walt.
                                        >
                                        > --- In covenantedreformati
                                        > <mailto:covenantedreformationclub%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        onclub@yahoogroups.com,
                                        > "Susan Wilkinson"
                                        > <gpyp@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Walt,
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > I am weary of both your overt and implied accusations against
                                        > Jerry that
                                        > > your posts aren't going through. You are not helping your cause in
                                        > this
                                        > > because everyone here knows Jerry to be honest, forthright and
                                        > fair in his
                                        > > moderation. Please stop falsely accusing him or else bring proof
                                        > that you
                                        > > have been wronged by him. If it's true that one or more of your
                                        > posts
                                        > > haven't made it through there are a few other logical
                                        > possibilities as to
                                        > > why; you might want to consider that before you make assumptions
                                        > and public
                                        > > accusations.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Also as far as I'm concerned you've done a fabulous job of
                                        > demonstrating the
                                        > > veracity of the point of view of those you seek to refute.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Susan
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.