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Quotes from the much hated Grand Debate

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  • humbled.learner
    Dear brethren, These quotes were compiled by one of our Ruling Elders, and I post them here as The Effort People (as I will begin to call them) wants to spin
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 11, 2007
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      Dear brethren,
      These quotes were compiled by one of our Ruling Elders, and I post
      them here as "The Effort People" (as I will begin to call them) wants
      to spin you so that you think this is a worthless document, and
      non-binding on helping to define Presbyterian government. No, they
      would rather you read Bob's jokes and slamming of our Elders to
      convince you that they have defined Presbyterianism correctly, and we
      in the RPNA (GM) are just blind followers of innovation. How we
      define the power of jurisdiction and the power of order is biblical,
      and it is now becoming more clear to me that Bob is their designed hit
      man. This "blog testimony" method has recently become very popular in
      running opponent bashing political campaigns, and after reading his
      comments more and more carefully recently I can see he is indeed going
      to be the go to guy for The Effort People as they see to bash, trash
      and spin the truth of their Effort. Oh, boy, do I look forward to the
      paper by our Session in the future to see the real heart of The Effort
      People. Go ahead and listen to their spin now, but watch for the
      paper in the future so you will understand the extent to with The
      Effort People avoided the process our Elders outlined to help work
      through questions on the PPSA, and rather they chose their own Secret
      Society method to tear apart our church. Only time will tell before
      we see the truth involving The Effort People.
      May the Lord be with you.
      Walt.
      PS - Below is the quotes that you will not find on Bob's website.
      Hmmm, I wonder why. Perhaps he did not ever see these quotes as I'm
      sure he would have posted them for you to read for yourself.


      January 26, 2007
      Dear Brethren,

      Some of you have received a partial set of Grand Debate quotes from
      me, ones that I personally thought would be helpful to those who
      didn't have time to go through the whole book. Below is my complete
      set of quotes which I just finished typing. The quotes I added
      recently are separated by a zigzag line ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ rather
      than a straight line. ------------------

      Lyndon Dohms

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Quotes from "The Answer of the (Westminster) Assembly of Divines unto
      the Reasons of the seven dissenting Brethren…." otherwise titled
      "Grand Debate Between the Independents and the Presbyterians" (This
      book can be found on the Puritan Bookshelf CDs, Volume #13 and 18)

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      …it (the Independent's argument-LD) is as strong (though they intended
      it not) against Elders doing any act of Elders out of their own
      particular congregation, what need soever there be of it. So that if
      any particular congregation cannot preserve itself, it must be left in
      corruption and to perdition rather than any act of the Elders of
      another congregation may be exercised for their relief by any
      Ecclesiastical or Presbyterial power....This argument carrying with it
      so much mischief to the whole church must needs be false either in the
      major or the minor, or both.... (The Answer of the Assembly of Divines
      pg.1)

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      First, The whole church of Christ is but one, made up of the
      collection and aggregation of all who are called out of the world by
      the Preaching of the Word, to profess the faith of Christ, unto the
      unity thereof, from which union there ariseth unto each one such a
      relation unto and dependence upon the Catholike church, as parts have
      to the whole, and are to do all Christian duties, as parts conjoined
      unto the whole, and members of the same Commonwealth and Corporation -
      Eph 4:3-14 (pg 2)

      Secondly, All the ministers and officers of the church are given to
      the whole church for the gathering and building of it - 1 Cor 12:28,
      Eph 4:11-12, and they are all to teach and rule, and perform all other
      ministrations with reference to it, and the best advantage of it.

      Thirdly, when this whole number of called men, and their officers were
      no more than might meet together in one place, they taught and ruled,
      and did all other ministerial and Christian works in one undivided
      body respectively.

      Fourthly, their number increasing so that they could not with
      edification meet all together according to the will of Christ, they
      divided into several companies, for their better ordering and
      increase, and such several companies joined together in one external
      fellowship and communion of the same public profession and rule of
      faith, worship of God and ecclesiastical discipline, and practice of
      love and the duties of it, are in the Scripture called churches, and
      to some one of these should every believer join himself.

      Fifthly, and being thus joined, the officers and members should not
      act or work as if they were independent Corporations, but only as part
      of Christ's body, and are all to regard the common good of the whole,
      and all things in these smaller bodies are to be managed for the
      greatest advantage of the whole - Eph 4:1

      Sixthly, as it is the will of Christ that particular Christian men and
      families should be associated into some particular assembly for their
      own and others edification, so should such particular assemblies
      associate with other assemblies, for the common and mutual good of
      them all, sometimes they standing in need of others, or others of
      them, sometimes themselves singly are insufficient to their own
      business .... (pg 3)

      Seventhly, in such associations as the mutual consent of particular
      men and families orderly regularly joining in one congregation gives
      them power and authority one over another according to the rule of
      Christ, without hurting or destroying, but rather helping and
      strengthening of the liberty of their several persons or families. So
      in this association of congregations their mutual consent orderly
      regulated gives them a sufficient call for the elders to exercise
      their power of elders and the people their interest in such things as
      are above mentioned, without impairing or hurting the liberty and
      privileges of the congregations, but rather preserving and
      strengthening of them... (II Cor 8: 14,19, Rom 15:26, Col 4:16, Acts
      1:29.30, Gal 6:1, 2,5,9, Gal 1:2, Acts 13:1-5, Acts 15:1,3,4)

      The institution of Christ making his church one and appointing all
      these as means proportionable to attain that end, and no where
      limiting them to be as means to particular and individual men only,
      but left them to be applied according to the present conditions of
      times, places, persons, of one, or more, or many, whether men or
      churches. The very light of nature requireth that all due and lawful
      means should be used for the attaining of some necessary end, warrants
      us to conclude, that the means appointed and commanded for particular
      Christians, should be as applicable to whole companies of them, unless
      God's word somewhere hath forbidden it...... (pg 4)
      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

      We doubt not to affirme that there may be divers Congregations joyned
      in one Presbytery only, and the officers to teach and govern in
      Common, when it shall be found most for their edification, and so it
      is in some reformed Churches at this day: …(pg 5)

      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Suppose in Jerusalem there were ten congregations and twenty officers
      feeding and ruling them in common, no one of the fixed to any
      congregation. This kind of Presbytery would pass for a lawful
      government, and none of these incongruities or absurdities are charged
      upon it by this argument.... (pg 5)

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      …he (pastor/elder- LD) may not once do that which is unlawfull, he may
      not once do that Act of an Elder out of his own place, but supposing
      him faithfull in that, he may and ought to to put forth any act of an
      elder for the good of other churches, yea for all the churches in the
      world (if he be able and thereunto called) as well as to pray and
      write books for the benefit of all. (pg 6)

      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

      And if it be granted, that they still are members of another Church;
      then it is granted that an Elder may do an Act of an Elder amongst
      those to whom he is not a fixed officer. (pg 7)

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      And we further say, that of all the Acts of an Elder (wherein he is to
      apply the will of God to others) none are so safe for him to performe
      as those belonging to discipline.

      (pg 7)

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      All these thus joyned in a body or an Eldership to those
      Congregations, and each one doth the Acts of Elders in the Presbytery
      to those congregations in all those things for which they are thus
      associated; yet every one of them severally, and particularly, is not
      to be looked upon as an Elder of every one of those Congregations, and
      bound to do the whole work of an Elder to every one of them. (pg 7)

      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

      …. as the Church is one, and all the Elders given for the good of that
      one Church; so their Officers (when orderly called for) should be
      exercised in any part of it for the good thereof; and that a mutual
      consent and agreement, is a sufficient warrant and call for the
      exercise of this power, whether in one Congregation only, as suppose
      in Cenchrea, or in many, as suppose in Jerusalem, or yet more, as
      suppose when Antioch and Jerusalem joyned, Act. Chapt. 15 that in any
      of these , or all of these, they may, and ought, upon such a call,
      exercise any of their gifts and offices, as the Church, or any part
      therof shall stand in need. (pg 8)

      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

      We answer, It would fully confute us, if we challenged (or usurped-LD)
      any other power, or extent of power then Christ hath given to all his
      Ministers to exercise in any part of his Church upon a call. (pg 9)

      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

      So we say the elders receive their power and Commission for the whole
      Church of Christ, and may exercise it wherever they have a call, and
      no where without a call: and the mutual assent and agreement of the
      persons among whom, and to whom they should exercise it, is the
      proximum fundamentum hujus exercitii. (pg 10)

      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

      They found it best in those times of persecution and public
      unsettledness to have one common Treasury for all their poor, and one
      common Consistory (Session-LD) for all matters of censure. (pg 10)

      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

      And as for their alledged Scriptures, Acts 20:28, II Peter 5, Col.
      1:17, Heb 13:17. I Thess 5:12, I Tim 3:17. None of them prove the
      contrary, they only shew that all these things belong to their Office,
      and that this is the ordinary and usual practice and work of Elders
      where their work lies, but none of them prove it unlawful for an Elder
      upon a call to do one of these, where they have not occasion, and a
      call to do the rest. (pg 11)

      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

      For if an Apostle, as an Apostle, may exercise one Act of his
      Ministry, where he may not exercise another, then may a Presbyter, as
      a Presbyter exercise one Act of his Ministry, where he may not
      exercise another. (pg 12)

      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

      …we desire our Brethren to show where the Scripture hath made such a
      fixing of an Elder to one Congregation, as that it should be unlawfull
      for him to do any Act of an Elder to any part of the rest of the
      Church of Christ, to whom he is yet given by Christ as an Elder. (pg 15)

      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Thirdly, neither is the sentence of excommunication so dreadful as
      they make it, (for as the Apostle sayeth of the Magistrates sword,
      Rom. 13, if thou do well, etc.) Good men need not fear it, if men
      deserve it not either it shall not touch them, or if it do, clavis
      errans non ligit, and if it be just, it was done in heaven before, and
      they only on earth declare and apply the will of Christ to him, and
      that for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved;
      and upon his repentance received again, into the bosom of the church,
      and therefore excommunication should be imbraced, as a soul-saving
      Ordinance of Jesus Christ, as well as the Word and the Sacraments. (pg 16)



      …Elders have a double relation, one to the single Congregation where
      they are fixed, another to the several congregations whereto it is
      united. Their relation to those thus united, tieth them not to all
      duties of Elders to all those united Congregations (as our Brethren
      suppose in their argument) nor all those Congregations to all duties
      unto them, but only to those mutuall duties for which they were
      united. (pg. 48)

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      And it were hard either for us or for our Brethren to admit such a
      Principle in the matter in hand; that nothing is agreeable to and
      warranted by the Word of God, but what hath had, and shall have an
      existence in all Ages. Our Brethren hold Ruling Elders to be not only
      Agreeable unto, and Warranted by the Word of God, but of Divine
      institution; and yet we think they will not say, they have an
      existence at all times in all their churches. (pg 154)

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      Especially, when as men are oft imboldened to sin, when they know that
      none can judicially call them to account… Pg 156

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      …But if a person conceiving himself to be injured in a National
      Assembly cannot obtain redress, either from another succeeding
      National Assembly, or from a superior Assembly, be must commit his
      cause to God, and so must he that may conceive himself wronged by a
      Classical or Provincial Assembly, if he cannot have the opportunity of
      appealing further: In like manner, as he that thinks himself civilly
      injured by the Parliament, or Supreme Power in a State, and hath no
      other way to obtain redress. Yet is not this a reason why we may not
      have recourse to such ways of remedy as God affords, because there may
      be a further remedy, which God at present affords not?

      Pg 156

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      Their [dissenters -LD] third Argument is thus framed: That
      Church-power, which cannot shew a set and constant Divine Rule for its
      Variation, and Subordination, and Ultimate Independency, is not of
      God, and so may not be; But this variation of Church power into these
      Subordinations cannot shew any such steady and constant rule for these
      things, Ergo.

      Ans. First, To their Major. If by a set and constant rule, they mean
      by a particular & express rule; we deny it; It is not necessary that
      there be a particular express rule for the local bounds or
      circumstantial variations in Government. If they mean, the general
      rules of the Word, applied and made use of, with the help of Prudence
      and Nature's light; we grant it, and it helps not their cause.

      Pg 157

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      All that which they say for the Bounds of a Particular Congregation
      (in their Reasons against our alleging, Acts 15, for proof of this
      proposition) is no more but this, such as live so, as conveniently to
      meet in one place, (which yet perhaps will hardly agree with the
      bounds of some of their Congregations;) but whether they must be
      threescore, fourscore, one hundred, two hundred, or a hundred ninety
      and nine, or more or less; whether they must all live within one mile,
      two miles, three miles, compass or more or less, or may live twenty,
      thirty, forty miles, or more a sunder (as is seen in some
      Congregations now a days) whether a thousand persons should be divided
      into three or four or five, or more, or fewer congregations; and
      whether this or that man must join himself to this or that, or a third
      Congregation; what is there in all these particulars, and many more
      that must determine it, but General Rules of the Word, and principles
      of Prudence, and the light of Nature, as may best stand with
      convenience and edification?

      Pg 158

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      Ans. 1, We do not bring Acts 15 for a pattern of a Synod, either
      Provincial ,or National as such, but as an instance of Churches
      associated in a Synod. And if not within the same either Province or
      Nation, then doth it give warrant for Association of Churches, even
      beyond the bounds of one Nation,.

      2. We do not say, qua Province, qua Nation, qua Kingdom, but as upon a
      due weighing of these and other particulars shall appear most for the
      good of the church.

      But we say, 3. That the Churches in one Kingdom, (having more
      communion with each other, then with Churches of another Kingdom) are
      (ordinarily) fittest to associate, and to be most immediately helpful
      one to another.

      4. We say, that the concurrent assistance or opposition of the State
      and Magistrate, may make Associations, either in the same Nation, or
      with other Nations, more or less expedient: and variation in
      expediency may cause a variation in the Boundings and Limits of Synods.

      Pg 162

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      For we do not say, That the Bounds of a Kingdom, qua Kingdom, must be
      the Bounds of an Association (but that there may be Associations
      larger and lesser then of one Kingdom) but, That this is one
      particular, considerable amongst others in point of Expediency and
      Edification.

      Pg 163

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      The Promise of Christ is One and the same to all the officers, from
      the Apostles to the Pastor and Teacher; I will be with you always, to
      the end of the world, And Where two or three are gathered together in
      my name, there am I in the midst of them: Which he useth to make good
      in proportion to the work he sets them upon. He doth not give a
      distinct promise to each Officer, (I will be present with an Apostle
      in such a proportion, with an Evangelist in such a proportion, and
      with a Pastor or Elder with such a proportion) much less doth he give
      special promises to each Act belonging to the same office, (I will be
      thus far present with a Pastor in teaching, thus far in visiting the
      sick, thus far in admonishing, reproving, comforting, thus far in
      ruling his own congregation, and thus far when called to govern or
      advise in reference to other Congregations) but That one Promise is
      sufficient ground for each Officer, in every act of his Office to
      expect a Blessing proportionable to the Work he is employed in.

      Pg 168

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      That neighbour Churches offended may (without their reference) call
      them to an account; and partly because it seems contrary to all
      principles either of Nature or Scripture, that it should be in the
      power of the Offending party, either to choose whether he will be
      accountable or no, or who alone shall be his Judges.

      Pg 174

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      And we, not doubting but that it was Christ's meaning to prevent and
      remove scandals as well of an offending Sister, as of an offending
      Brother, and an Offending Church, or some number of offenders, as well
      as of a particular person, and that in case of public scandals, as
      well as of private offences; doubt not but it was his meaning while he
      gives Instance in One, that the like course (mutatis mutandis) should
      in a due proportion be used in all the rest.

      Pg 178-179

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      But if it be true which they say that the generality of Ministers are
      thus apt to corrupt the Truth & oppose Religion in the power and
      purity of it; then of how dangerous a consequence would that be, if
      every such Minister must be permitted to seduce and gather to himself
      a company of people at his own pleasure, who should thenceforth plead
      Exemption and Independency in reference to any Authoritative
      Ecclesiastical Judicatory whatever? Especially when we may far more
      truly say, of those that, to obtain Liberty, would pretend Tenderness
      of Conscience and Exemption from Ecclesiastical Judicatures, what our
      Brethren here say of Ministers, viz. That of those the greater part
      are and have been still the worse and more corrupt, as is apparent in
      this Kingdom at present.

      Pg 184, 185

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



      For, as we conceive it much conducing to edification, that where the
      numbers of Believers are great, or their habitations far distant, they
      should for more convenience be distributed into several congregations;
      so we judge it likewise conducing to edification, that each of those
      Congregations should have one or more appointed over them to take the
      special care of them: But, that the power of the Pastors or Elders in
      those several Congregations, should be so limited each to the peculiar
      care of his own particular Congregation, as that they may not join and
      act together, in things of common concernment for the good of all of
      them, our Brethren, we suppose, will not be able to prove; and what
      they have produced to that purpose, in their Reasons against the
      joining of many Congregations under one Presbyterial Government, and
      against the Subordination of Assemblies for Government; we have in our
      Answers thereunto considered.

      Pg 202,203

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      And it will be hard for our Brethren to prove, either that there were
      no more present at the Ordination of each of those several Elders,
      then those of that one particular Congregation wherein he was to be
      placed; or, That they were so confined each to the care of his own
      particular Congregation, as that they might not at all join in the
      common care of all.

      Pg 204

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      For, what hinders, but that, at the same time, they might be appointed
      both in common to take care of the whole, and, in particular, each of
      his own particular Congregation; and so, to endeavour both singly and
      jointly, to the utmost of their power, the good of all and every of
      those Congregations, as opportunity should be offered?

      Pg 205

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      2. If they may occasionally exercise these acts of communion with us
      once, or a second, or third time, without sin, we know no reason why
      it may not be ordinary, without sin too, and then separation and
      Church gathering would have been needless. To separate from those
      Churches ordinarily and visibly, with whom occasionally you may join
      without sin, seemeth to be a most unjust separation.

      Answer of sub-committee Pg. 55,56

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      4. We cannot but much question whether any reformed Churches grant
      such an unlimited toleration as our Brethren desire; that it may be
      free and lawful for any Multitudes of men even of their own natives,
      who are under a rule, to dispute and declare against it, that it is
      but a rule set up by humane power, and that there is another rule,
      appointed by a divine law different from it, unto which men ought to
      submit, rather then unto the other, and by such arguments to draw as
      many as can be possessed with so deep a prejudice from the rule
      established, into separated Churches, & such separation to be unto as
      many as please, as well native as foreigners, as lawful by a
      toleration, as the rule itself is by a constitution, and all this done
      by the advice of those churches themselves; we think our Brethren
      cannot find many reformed Churches that tolerate separation at all,
      nor any one that doth it in so unlimited a manner, and that not by
      connivence only, but by a law.

      Answer of sub-committee Pg. 63

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      3. When they say they cannot enjoy ordinances without sin, if this sin
      be founded upon an error of conscience, as we are persuaded it is, our
      Brethren know that an erroneous conscience can so hamper and perplex a
      man, as that during such an error, he shall be bound under sin every
      way, whether he cross the dictate of his conscience, or follow it, in
      which case further means and inquiry is to be used how to extricate
      the conscience out of these straits, and the person erring is bound to
      put away such an error, as being a sinful infirmity, and the Church no
      way bound to indulge a liberty of persisting in it, especially to the
      evident disturbance of her own peace.

      Answer of sub-committee Pg. 70,71

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      …now it is one thing for a scrupulous conscience to have liberty to
      join in another Congregation, as it is said in the case, and another
      thing to have liberty to be active, and to gather Members out of our
      churches, as is implied in the desire; for that would be to desire not
      only a liberty for consciences that are scrupulous, but a liberty to
      make consciences scrupulous by preaching or any other way infusing
      their principles into them, in order to the gaining of them into their
      Congregations; nor can we yet see how our Brethren, looking on their
      way as the counsel of God; and on the rule, as not founded on divine
      right, can allow themselves not to be in this manner active and
      sedulous to promote that which they judge God's way, and to disparage
      that which they judge but mans.

      Answer of sub-committee Pg. 72

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      It is our earnest desire and prayer that our Brethren might enjoy the
      ordinances with the peace of their consciences, and of the Church
      also, or that they would rather deny themselves of their full liberty
      in every point, then redeem it at the price of so much danger and
      disquiet to the Churches of God.

      Answer of sub-committee Pg. 77

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      We could be glad our Brethren had explained themselves when they speak
      of Tyranny and pressing men's consciences, because under that pretence
      many oppose all kind of Government, and many most injuriously
      represent Presbyterial Government as formidable and tyrannical;

      Answer of sub-committee Pg. 111

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      Lastly, we suppose our Brethren will grant these two things, 1. That a
      Member of a particular Congregation may be excommunicated for heresy
      and schism. 2. That the Officers of several Churches may convene and
      pronounce a sentence of non-communion upon other Churches; surely
      except our Brethren resolve to tolerate all sects and heresies
      whatsoever, they also may soon lie under the charge and odium of tyranny.

      Answer of sub-committee Pg. 111,112

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      …we will not envy our Brethren their tallness, we will desire to be
      low in our own eyes as well as we are in theirs, we confess our day is
      but the day of small things, yet we hope it is a time of love, far be
      it from us to say we are rich and stand in need of nothing, yet we
      hope when Presbyterian Government is up, we shall labour both by our
      Ministry and Discipline to present our members blameless before Christ.

      Answer of sub-committee Pg. 117

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      …so when all do agree in fundamentals, if any should for some small
      differences in judgment separate from communion with true churches, we
      should think that those men did sin against that unity which ought to
      be amongst Christians so fundamentally agreeing, in like manner,
      though in matters of Government being more obscure and remote from
      Christian knowledge, difference of judgment, and haply in some things
      of practice also, may be allowed, yet when in the most things and
      those most substantial, there is an agreement, for Brethren upon
      smaller differences not to content themselves with such expedients as
      may be provided to reconcile those differences, but to separate from
      communion with true churches of Christ, we cannot but believe it to be
      contrary to the word of God, and to the Scope and Letter of the Covenant;

      Answer of sub-committee Pg. 119

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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