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Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: On going events

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  • Walt Bre
    Edgar, I firmly reject almost everything you said below based upon my own research. Indeed, you have got this whole thing mapped out in your mind, and all
    Message 1 of 36 , Mar 5, 2007
      I firmly reject almost everything you said below based
      upon my own research. Indeed, you have got this whole
      thing mapped out in your mind, and all your facts are
      not only disputable, but lies. However, I'll wait for
      the information on your group, and add it to what I
      already have in hand to get a broader picture of what
      you guys did to the church.

      --- Ic Neltococayotl <puritanpresbyterian@...>

      > Walt,
      > I was not going to post, but I need to clarify what
      > you have posted for
      > your sake and others that have taken what you cited
      > below out of
      > context.
      > Let me stress to you, that our study group NEVER
      > took an oath of
      > secrecy. NEVER. It was contemplated, as that
      > letter cited, but it was
      > NEVER implemented. Hence, Shawn's letter of
      > repentance that he sent out
      > that advanced that proposition and particularly the
      > words he stated to
      > some of our brethren.
      > Now, for your understanding and others, the study
      > group that formed was
      > based upon certain concerns that were common amongst
      > those that came
      > together to begin a systematic study of our Reformed
      > Presbyterian
      > standards and history. We would have preferred a
      > more open and all
      > inclusive study with everyone's participation.
      > However the reality
      > of the environment within the "RPNA(GM)" would never
      > have allowed such
      > an open and public study. The whips or proxy elders
      > that unleashed
      > barrages of posts and e-mails meant to bully us into
      > submission by
      > certain laymen within the "RPNA(GM)" within our
      > church made that crystal
      > clear. ANY questions that questioned the legitimacy
      > or even cast a
      > shimmer of a doubt on the court that the Elders
      > advanced as an entity
      > (being) was to be quickly squashed, the person
      > questioning to
      > immediately sign affidavits or else be brought up on
      > charges of sin. To
      > be a Berean was akin to being dishonorable,
      > prideful, and presumptuous.
      > The command to prove all things, spurned. YOU saw
      > those e-mails that
      > were flying back and forth. YOU know that some
      > called for a cease fire
      > way before the Elders even stepped in. YOU know
      > that these proxy
      > elders, those that were "defending" the elders from
      > "usurpers" (i.e.
      > those that were asking questions), would not take
      > this private, but
      > wanted it hashed out publicly within the circle of
      > the church. YOU were
      > disgusted by the e-mails going back and forth and
      > the severity of the
      > words with each passing e-mail that you asked for
      > you name to be removed
      > from receiving further e-mails. YOU stated that you
      > would wait for the
      > Elders to respond. Imagine, it got so bad, that by
      > the time you asked
      > to bow out from receiving these e-mails, the Elders
      > had yet to step in
      > and intervene!!!
      > The last round of ex cathedras came after a secret
      > meeting in Colorado
      > between an Elder and two laymen. An ammo can of
      > analogies and talk of
      > people offing the Elders I think was the last straw.
      > After that barrage
      > some of us knew that the only way to study the
      > issues and compare RP
      > standards, judicial testimony, and history was to do
      > it privately.
      > Given the climate of a Gestapo like setting we
      > sought to undertake this
      > away from the public setting of the "RPNA(GM)" and
      > do all we could to
      > keep those less informed or more inclined to
      > destructive criticisms from
      > stumbling at the fact that many of us across North
      > America of the
      > "RPNA(GM)" were engaged in this private study. The
      > claim that we were a
      > secret society is a way to libel and slander us and
      > try to destroy our
      > credibility so that, hopefully in the critic's eyes,
      > no one
      > (especially members of the RPNA(GM)) will read our
      > Charitable Inquiry.
      > It is also a misunderstanding, to put it mildly,
      > that we took an oath of
      > secrecy. We never said that if we were asked if we
      > were meeting that we
      > would deny our existence. That is a lie. That was
      > never agreed upon by
      > all of us that were part of the private study group.
      > To wit, if you
      > want to know who the brethren were that were part of
      > the private study
      > group, well we went public when we published the
      > Charitable Inquiry and
      > signed our names to it! The fact that many of you
      > did not think it out
      > that how did these guys put something like this out
      > between June '06 and
      > release date, well is your (in general) fault. We
      > all, for the most
      > part, have full time jobs and other more pressing
      > commitments. We all
      > have different personalities, yet in a few months we
      > all were able to
      > read, study, compare notes, and write what became
      > part 1 of the
      > Charitable Inquiry. Imagine that. We wanted to ask
      > well thought out
      > questions arrived at after mature deliberations and
      > deep study of our RP
      > Standards, Judicial Testimony, and History so that
      > we could be faithful
      > Bereans.
      > How were we received? Well, just before our paper
      > went public a good
      > number of the co-authors of the CI were
      > excommunicated. Why? Well no
      > one knows except the Elders. The charge of alleged
      > sin were NEVER
      > revealed to them. The plaintiff(s)/accusers were
      > NEVER disclosed.
      > Instead they were served an Oath. By swearing that
      > Oath, they would
      > have the privilege of knowing the aforesaid and then
      > to present their
      > defense.
      > Remember this fact. We were not excommunicated for
      > being a part of the
      > private study group. We never asked to get kicked
      > out. We did not
      > leave the "RPNA(GM)", we were kicked out. We
      > desired conformity to
      > faithful Biblical Presbyterian Church Government as
      > achieved by our RP
      > forefathers. For that we were summarily
      > excommunicated.
      > Those are the facts and they are indisputable.
      > The effeminate cry of conspiracy or secret societies
      > is a red herring at
      > best. A diversionary tactic to hide the farce that
      > these elders are
      > peddling as RP Presbyterian polity.
      > With that, I hope not to engage much more with you
      > on this, given your
      > track record.
      > Still, yours in Christ,
      > Edgar Ibarra
      > Reformed Presbyterian/Covenanter
      > P.S.,
      > This is a public not private forum.
      > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com,
      > Walt Bre
      > <humbled.learner@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > see below in [ ]
      > > [I think you will find it in the society documents
      > > that were organized with the oath of secrecy that
      > all
      > > the members took. I find it absurd that one will
      > take
      > > an oath of secrecy for a study group, and then
      > > complain about others requesting the same. I know
      > at
      > > least these posts will/could hit those on the web,
      > and
      > > that is much different than where things are done
      > in
      > > secret to promote a detailed, written agenda by
      > oath.
      > > Big difference. If you worked for my companies, I
      === message truncated ===

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    • desire_pure_heart
      Greetings to you, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, Brother Chris Coldwell, may I also have your reasons. blessings, Katrina Schumacher
      Message 36 of 36 , Mar 12, 2007
        Greetings to you, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

        Brother Chris Coldwell, may I also have your reasons.


        Katrina Schumacher

        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Cheryl Grenon
        <knoxknoxwhosthere@...> wrote:
        > Me too.
        > Cheryl
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: "trygvesson@..." <trygvesson@...>
        > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 4:31:52 AM
        > Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: On going events
        > In a message dated 3/7/2007 7:09:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        naphtali@naphtali. com writes:
        > Bob, Tom,
        > Sorry, I remember now that some of the forums are "invisible" to
        > members until they post 25 times; a precaution of sorts I guess.
        > send the text to each of you directly.
        > Sincerely,
        > Chris Coldwell
        > Chris,
        > Please send me a copy as well. Thanks!
        > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
        > Christopher Coombes
        > _
        > / )
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        > ) ( ) )
        > ={ }= / /
        > ) `-------/ /
        > ( /
        > \ |
        > ,'\ , ,'
        > `-'\ ,---\ | \
        > _) ) `. \ /
        > (__/ ) )
        > (_/

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