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Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Ok... I've got a question....

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  • Ic Neltococayotl
    SGS, The following Presbyterians should be a great help to you in this regards: Edwards on the Sabbath
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 7, 2006

      SGS,

      The following Presbyterians should be a great help to you in this regards:

      Edwards on the Sabbath

       

      Turretin on the Sabbath

       

      Watson on the Sabbath

       

      Edgar

       


      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, SovereignGraceSingles <sovereigngracesingles@...> wrote:
      >
      > Group....
      >
      > Actually, to make a long story short, I misspoke when I said he was SDA. He abandoned the SDA a few years ago and joined a church called "Church of God Seventh Day". Basically, I call it "SDA Lite".
      >
      > And then, last week they voted to leave that denomination because of it's departure from a stong stance on the Trinity, namely regarding the Holy Spirit.
      >
      > So, he's still strong on the "Sabbath" keeping, but very much appreciates many of the convictions of the Reformed Faith but still rejects most of the 5 Points.
      >
      > It is my prayer that he abandons his present stance on the Sabbath but I have to be honest that I have not been well taught on the reasons we no longer observe Saturday.
      >
      > SGS
      >
      >
      > Kevin Guillory globachio@... wrote:
      > Glenn Ferrell wrote: Before moving to a biblical argument, I'd establish the unique authority of the Scriptures. This is the weak point of SDA theology, more important than what day they keep as a Sabbath. Reading Scripture through the writings of Ellen White, makes her a greater authority.
      >
      > This issue - the authority of Scripture - is a perennial problem. While a group may claim to be completely submissive to Scripture, oftentimes actual practice reveals something very different. Today's mainline Protestant denominations still pay lip-service to the authority of Scripture, but in reality they are Roman in their theology. That is, they hold the interpretative norms of their denomination to be the decisive factor in understanding revelation.

      <snip>

    • Crazy Calvinist
      ... DJ: See also John Hadddington Brown (Below) IV. The fourth commandment prescribes, the proper time of God s worship. The precise quantity and part of time
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 7, 2006
         SGS said:
        >but I have to be honest that I have not been well taught on the reasons we no longer observe Saturday.
        >   

        DJ: See also John Hadddington Brown (Below)
         
        IV. The fourth commandment prescribes, the proper time of God's worship. The precise quantity and part of time proper for the stated and social worship of God depending on his mere will, this command is introduced with a solemn charge to remember to observe it, and is both positively and negatively expressed, and enforced with manifold reasons. The law of nature teaches, that men having bodies as well as souls, and being social creatures, they ought to worship God in an external and social manner; but does not determine what proportion or precise part of time ought to be observed in that stated and solemn worship. But the seventh part of our time being appointed by God for that purpose, his command is universally and perpetually binding or moral. 1. This command concerning the Sabbath was imposed upon man in paradise before any typical ceremonies. Nor is there any more appearance of Moses mentioning the Sabbath, Gen 2:1-2, than of his mentioning the creation of the world, by an anticipation of 2500 years before it took place. 2. The appointment of the Sabbath is inserted in the very middle of that moral law which God solemnly published from mount Sinai, and wrote upon two tables of stone, which was not the case with any ceremonial institution, Exod 20:8-11; Exod 19:20; Exod 24:12; Exod 34:28. 3. Every reason annexed to this commandment, when thus published and written, is of a moral nature, forcible on all men in every age and place; and hence strangers, as well as Israelites, were obliged to observe the weekly Sabbath, Exod 20:9-11.
         
        Immediately after the creation of the world, God appointed the seventh day of the week for the weekly sabbath. 1. Nothing can be more plain and express than Moses' declaration on this head, that God, having finished his work of creation in six days, rested on the seventh, and sanctified it to be a sabbath to himself, Gen 2:1-2. 2. All the reasons annexed to this command were as forcible immediately after the creation, as ever, Exod 20:10-11. 3. The sabbath was observed before the giving of the law at Sinai, as a thing which the Israelites well knew to be already appointed, Exod 16:23. 4. In Heb 4:3-10, three distinct sabbaths are mentioned, one which commenced from the foundation of the world, which can be no other than that of the seventh day:—another which commenced from the Israelites' entrance into Canaan, when their ceremonial sabbaths received their full force; and a third in commemoration of Christ's resurrection and entrance into his glorious rest.—Nay, ancient heathens take notice of the division of time into weeks, and of the seventh day, which it cannot be supposed they learned from the contemned Jews, who were then scarcely known at any great distance from Canaan.—There is no reason to wonder that the observation of the sabbath from Adam to Moses is not mentioned in a history which dispatches the events of 2500 years in a few pages, especially as it is not common for historians to mention ordinary and stated observances, except at the beginning of them. In a much more extensive history of about 480 years, there is no mention made of the weekly sabbath from the second year of the Israelites' travels in the wilderness till the days of David. Nor have we one instance of a child circumcised on the eighth day from Isaac to John Baptist.—God's giving his sabbath to the Israelites for a sign, only means, that the law of it was solemnly published and given to them, and a typical signification added to its original moral use, Ezek 20:12; Neh 9:14; Exod 31:17.
         
        Nevertheless God's appointment of the sabbath on the seventh day of the week was not strictly moral, but alterable by him. 1. Abstracting from his appointment, it is merely circumstantial whether it be on the seventh day or not. 2. It is not said in this commandment, that God blessed the seventh day, but that he blessed and sanctified the sabbath day, Exod 20:11. 3. The sabbath being made for man, not man for the sabbath, the day of it must be altered, if for, the fixing good of mankind, Mark 2:27-28. 4. Though the fixing it at first on the seventh, to commemorate the finished work of creation, was exceedingly proper, a greater event happening on another day, natively rendered it proper to change it to that day. 5. The seventh day sabbath having had a typical signification superadded to it, very properly fell into disuse with the other typical ceremonies, Exod 31:13,17; Ezek 20:12,20; Col 2:16-17. The change of the sabbath from the seventh day of the week, on which Christ rose from the dead, is exceedingly proper. 1. Christ being Lord of the sabbath, it is proper that, in consequence of his resurrection, he should manifest his dominion with respect to it, Mark 2:28. 2. His resurrection, being his entrance into rest from his finished work of redemption, more deserved to be commemorated than God's finishing of creation work did, Eph 1:19-21; Rom 1:3-4; Rom 4:25; 1 Cor 15:20; Col 1:18; Rev 1:5. 3. It was proper that the peculiar time, as well as the nature of Christian worship, should directly relate to his finishing the purchase of our redemption. It was not proper that the day of his birth should be commemorated in the sabbath, as on it he entered on his labour and suffering; nor the day of his death, as on that he was in the heat of his conflicts; nor the day of his ascension, as on that he did not enter, but proceeded into his rest. 4. It was proper that when the covenant of grace was clearly manifested, men's religious rest should, according to the tenor of that covenant, precede their labour, Luke 1:74-75; even as the order of labour and of rest on the seventh day sabbath, had corresponded with the order of duty and privilege in the covenant of works, Gal 3:12; Matt 19:17.
         
        God changed the weekly sabbath from the seventh to the first day of the week, at the resurrection of Christ. 1. God foretold that the first day of the week should be the Christian Sabbath, Ezek 43:27; Ps 118:24. 2. This day is expressly called the Lord's day. Now, except his healing of persons on the Jewish sabbath, no day of the week is ever ascribed to any of his acts, or events which befel him, but to his resurrection: nor is there any reason why that should be called his day, unless he had peculiarly sanctified and set it apart for his public worship, Rev 1:10. 3. Christ marked his peculiar claim to that day by repeated visits to his disciples, and by the miraculous outpouring of his spirit on it, John 20:19,26; Acts 2; Lev 23:16; Num 28:26. 4. His apostles, who were instructed by him in all things relative to the New Testament church, and who had his Spirit to guide them into all truth, observed the first day of the week as the Christian Sabbath. On that day they assembled the Christians to break bread in the Lord's Supper. After tarrying seven days at Troas, Paul preached on the first day of the week, and dispensed the Lord's Supper, and continued till midnight, Acts 20:7. On that day, they required Christians to lay up their collections for the poor, 1 Cor 16:2; 1 Cor 11:2,23.—The apostles frequently preached upon the Jewish sabbath, not because they observed it, but because they then found the Jews assembled in their synagogues, Acts 13, etc. [John Haddington Brown-- from his systematic Theology]

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      • bob_suden
        but I have to be honest that I have not been well taught on the reasons we no longer observe Saturday. Greetings, I can remember this question and was not
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 7, 2006
          "but I have to be honest that I have not been well taught on the reasons we no longer observe Saturday."

          Greetings,

          I can remember this question and was not well taught on it either. Finally stumbled across John Murray on it I think. Basically the  big reason in the New Testament is that Christ and the apostles met for worship and fellowship  on the first day of the week, Sunday or the Lord's Day. They didn't meet on the last day or the old covenant sabbath. The reason? Christ's resurrection - on the first day of the week.
          Not that the NT sabbath was not foreshadowed in the Old. The reason given in Deuteronomy for the Fourth Commandment was because this was 'the day the Lord delivered you from being a bondslave and servant in  Egypt.'  And if Egypt  typologically represents sin in the OT,  then we were objectively delivered from our sins with Christ's resurrection, again on the first day of the week.

          Romans 1:3  Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
          4  And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

          1 Corinthians 15:55  O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
          56  The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
          57  But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

          Yet if  we meet on Saturday, we are  judaizers and under the OT ceremonial law, which the book of Hebrews is at pains to point out, has been done away with and fulfilled in Christ's perfect and all sufficient sacrifice of himself.

          Hence the change, contra the SDA propaganda that Constantine was responsible for it. Rather he recognized what was an authoritative apostolic tradition, regardless if his establishment was erastian or arian and regardless if his conversion was genuine.

          cordially yours,
          in Christ
          Bob S



              --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, SovereignGraceSingles <sovereigngracesingles@...> wrote:
          >
          > Group....
          >   
          >         Actually, to make a long story short, I misspoke when I said he was SDA. He abandoned the SDA a few years ago and joined a church called "Church of God Seventh Day". Basically, I call it "SDA Lite".
          >   
          >          And then, last week they voted to leave that denomination because of it's departure from a stong stance on the Trinity, namely regarding the Holy Spirit.
          >   
          >          So, he's still strong on the "Sabbath" keeping, but very much appreciates many of the convictions of the Reformed Faith but still rejects most of the 5 Points.
          >   
          >           It is my prayer that he abandons his present stance on the Sabbath but I have to be honest that I have not been well taught on the reasons we no longer observe Saturday.
          >     SGS
          >  
          >
          > Kevin Guillory <globachio@...> wrote:
          >           Glenn Ferrell wrote:       Before moving to a biblical argument, I'd establish the unique authority of the Scriptures.  This is the weak point of SDA theology, more important than what day they keep as a Sabbath.  Reading Scripture through the writings of Ellen White, makes her a greater authority. 
          >
          >     This issue - the authority of Scripture - is a perennial problem.  While a group may claim to be completely submissive to Scripture, oftentimes actual practice reveals something very different.  Today's mainline Protestant denominations still pay lip-service to the authority of Scripture, but in reality they are Roman in their theology.  That is, they hold the interpretative norms of their denomination to be the decisive factor in understanding revelation. 
          >     For instance, about a year ago I attended a conference wherein a Lutheran "bishop" defended his denomination's drift towards homosexuality on the notion that the church interprets Scripture.  He even (mis) used Acts 15 for his basis.  The upshot is that he can't tell Lutheranism from papalism.
          >     Early on the Reformers stood upon the principle that "Scripture interprets itself."  And they did so knowing that the only other option is Romanism (e.g., the SDA's submission to Ellen White).  Hence I think it important to avoid phrases like "I interpret this passage to mean ..."  Or, "our church interprets Scripture this way."  Or, "the hermeneutic principle we use for interpretation is ..." 
          >     We must also avoid the temptation to say things like, "The Reformer's hermeneutic principle of 'Scripture interprets itself' is what I use for interpretation ..."  Rather, hold instead that Scripture interprets itself because it is a fact.  Even our confessions have no authority other than what they derive from Scripture. The only "glasses" through which we can read Scripture is Scripture itself. 
          >     Two significant points:
          >     -  The fact that Protestants have various points of view is evidence of sin.  It does not invalidate the hermeneutic principle of "Scripture interprets itself." 
          >     -  Hold firmly to plenary Scriptural inerrancy.  Again, various Protestant teachings on topics such as Baptism, Holy Communion, etc. do not cancel out inerrancy, but instead highlight our sinfulness.  To claim otherwise is to commit the same sin Adam once did in holding God responsible for sin by giving him the woman, Eve.  (Genesis 3:12)  God gives a wonderful gift (Eve, an inerrant Scripture) and in our sinfulness we blame the gift and Gift-Giver rather than ourselves.
          >     Consequently, Ellen White is the SDA's own pope.  Her "revelations" stand outside of the Word and implicitly claim an authority that stands above the Word. 
          >
          > Yours in Christ
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