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Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: What is a lawful court?

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  • Walt Bre
    Edgar, I ll refer you to the definition of Rashness in Speech preached by Pastor Price on November 5, 2006 and the public record that has been laid during this
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 29, 2006
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      Edgar,

      I'll refer you to the definition of Rashness in Speech
      preached by Pastor Price on November 5, 2006 and the
      public record that has been laid during this
      controversy. I am very tempted to quote several
      statements from members in our church about what they
      have said about our Elders, and prove that those
      comments are absolutely unacceptable to me. Whether
      they are said verbally beyond what is written, I am
      not aware except what one person has written to me
      privately mentioning they have heard similar verbal
      comments in their home as to what has been written.

      Whether you call it rashness, or harshness, or
      acceptable words to use against the Elders is most
      certainly up to you. However, I will not use such
      words against these men even if I disagree with them,
      and I will defend them against all those who wish to
      use those acceptable comments in your mind.

      The common concerns paper has a mountain of Questions,
      and I notice you have a number of others below. Get
      to the most specific one or two, and I'll answer. I'm
      not desiring to be whirled around with one question
      after another and another and another forever. The
      issues are very cut and dried for me and I have
      studied them all very carefully. I spent Sunday going
      over all of the House of Commons resolutions and
      orders with/to the Westminster Assembly between
      October 1, 1644 and January 20, 1645 have a firm
      understanding, along with reading 'The Reason
      Presented by the Dissenting Brethren Against Certain
      Propositions Concerning Presbyterial Government,
      Together with the Answer of the Assembly of Divines to
      Those Reasons of Dissent', 1648 what all these
      questions do in the scope of time.

      I firm in my decision and understand the doctrine. If
      you folks are going after societies and your preferred
      method of a General Meeting, then rock and roll.

      Until I see the Scripture arguments, I'm not moving
      and I still am waiting for the arguments in Scripture,
      and not a mountain of questions.

      I'm looking forward to version 2 in your series.

      Walt.

      --- Ic Neltococayotl <puritanpresbyterian@...>
      wrote:

      >
      > Walt,
      >
      > Please notice that harsh words have not been used so
      > far against the
      > persons of the Elders. Critiques of their paper and
      > actions yes. Such
      > critiques are classed as harsh and slanderous (the
      > correct word is
      > libel, slander is spoken libel is written), but is
      > that more an
      > emotional response in the zeal of some to defend the
      > Elders at all cost?
      > Constructive critiques are not sinful in of
      > themselves, that I am aware
      > of. So, are they above critique? Are they above
      > error? Are they not
      > subject to have their papers and actions compared
      > with Scripture? Is
      > anyone? Do we not critique just about everything
      > that we read day in day
      > out to a certain degree? If you grant the latter,
      > why then the outcry
      > on your part when their papers and actions are being
      > questioned by some
      > of us that hold fast to the Covenanter cause.
      > Strange that you would
      > call it harsh. Does not SWRB publish very harsh and
      > overly strongly
      > worded papers against the characters of other
      > ministers of Christ's
      > Church by some within our church? Is it not
      > justified by some that
      > harshness is necessary at times and that they are
      > following the example
      > of Calvin and etc? If the comments by some so far
      > in this forum are
      > harsh, what would you call some papers written
      > against others by members
      > (officer and laymen alike) of the RPNA(GM) promoted
      > by SWRB? Unless of
      > course we happen to have a two tier definition for
      > harshness, do we?
      >
      > You just wrote,
      >
      > > I would like to know if anyone can aide me in
      > understanding the
      > > biblical distinctions of a lawful court. I've read
      > Bob Suden's
      > > comments, on his page, but would prefer someone
      > else respond only
      > > because his argument is between he and our Elders,
      > and I am against
      > > the extremely harsh words that others have said
      > about my Elders in
      > > private on our own forum, and that may begin to
      > creep into this forum.
      >
      >
      > Notice again that you are bringing this topic up in
      > the various posts
      > you have just written on this forum. You are
      > pushing it on a very
      > Public Forum. What will happen when others post
      > things that displease
      > you? How will you react? You continually write
      > that you are unable to
      > post or respond, yet strangely constantly do so.
      >
      > As for your many questions about the lawful court
      > and such, you know
      > very well that has been addressed by some that share
      > common concerns
      > privately within our own Covenanted community (or
      > RPNA (GM)). Why do
      > you not keep it in house for now and ask those
      > questions to those of us
      > that have Common Concerns (hint, hint). Why would
      > you refuse to engage
      > the authors of the Charitable Inquiry and direct the
      > questions to us?
      > Has not the Inquiry helped you in these areas? If
      > not, let us know
      > privately within our Covenanted community, not just
      > the authors of the
      > Inquiry, you know the e-mail format we have been
      > using of late. Unless
      > you you want to compare what we wrote, the Elders
      > wrote, with what
      > others outside our community will answer. Then I
      > guess that is fair,
      > but we are most open to dialogue with you and others
      > within our
      > Covenanted community outside and away from the very
      > public arena that
      > this forum is.
      >
      > Your brother in Christ,
      >
      > Edgar Ibarra
      >
      > Camerionian Covenanter
      >
      > Owning the original 6 Terms of Communion
      >
      >
      > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com,
      > "humbled.learner"
      > <humbled.learner@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear brethren,
      > >
      > > I would like to know if anyone can aide me in
      > understanding the
      > > biblical distinctions of a lawful court. I've read
      > Bob Suden's
      > > comments, on his page, but would prefer someone
      > else respond only
      > > because his argument is between he and our Elders,
      > and I am against
      > > the extremely harsh words that others have said
      > about my Elders in
      > > private on our own forum, and that may begin to
      > creep into this forum.
      > >
      > > I've never been the best at laying low when people
      > speak evil against
      > > our reformed forefathers (as some will know of my
      > years defending them
      > > against primarily the baptists ministers and my
      > former papist
      > > brethren), but it gets people so far off point
      > with all the slander
      > > and bitterness comes into play.
      > >
      > > Thus, if someone else outside our church who have
      > been excommunicated,
      > > I would like their short biblical arguments as to
      > what makes up a
      > > lawful Session court. If it can only be local, as
      > some argue, and not
      > > permissible where two or three are gathered in
      > Christ's name, what
      > > other reasons beside technology and international
      > border's are
      > > considered unfaithful in the eyes of Scripture.
      > >
      > > Thank you for your willingness to answer.
      > >
      > > Walt.
      > >
      >
      >
      >




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