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Re: Welcome, wayward Covenanters....

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  • gmw
    Ginny, My heart goes out to you as well as to the excommunicated, as I know this whole thing is an ordeal for everyone involved. But I can t keep silent. ...
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 5, 2006
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      Ginny,

      My heart goes out to you as well as to the excommunicated, as I know
      this whole thing is an ordeal for everyone involved.

      But I can't keep silent.

      > >Do not get me wrong, this will not be a place for people to come bash
      > >the RPNA (GM)...
      >
      > But already you can see that people are following you by example,
      and they
      > feel they have the warrant to do exactly that.

      I see people lamenting, speaking against what they believe to be
      un-presbyterian, etc. Not all criticism is bashing. I am not
      interested in dragging out all the differences I have with the RPNA
      [GM], or letting others do it either.


      > >But I don't want these good people (whom you sadly label "opposition")
      >
      > They have publicly declared they are in opposition to the session of the
      > RPNA (GM) and do not recognize them as a lawful court/session/elders.

      Of course they have! The "Reformed Presbytery of North America
      General Meeting" is NOT a Presbytery, not even a real session, and not
      a general meeting (yes, I read the defense of the name and of the
      government in the current circumstances, and found it to be pretty
      poor). I never joined them or owned them as lawful.

      Did I just excommunicate myself, or did I do that a long time ago?

      > I still maintain, that unless you have spoken to the elders to hear the
      > other side of the issue, you DO NOT have enough information to properly
      > judge this particular situation. To speak as judge and juror with only
      > limited evidence is not a wise move on your part.

      I want to you understand that almost 100% of the information I'm
      basing my position on is RPNA (GM) written materials in which they are
      explaining themselves. I am not going on much, if anything, of what
      others have told me. I read the defense of the current government and
      other documents, I read the charges they're putting out against
      people, the stuff about excommunicating yourself, I read the oath.
      These things themselves make me glad I haven't "spoken to the elders"
      any more than the limited contact I've had over the years -- I assure
      you that had I ever come to join the RPNA (GM), I would have been one
      of the first to be excommunicated, if not over this issue then over
      some other one.

      > I would be willing to discuss this further offline if it is
      something you
      > wish/need to understand more fully, but I am not about to discuss any
      > particulars in a public forum. It would only hurt the Covenanter
      cause on a
      > large scale, and I trust that none of us, you included, would want
      to see
      > that happen.

      No, I do not want to see the cause of the Covenanted Reformation to be
      harmed, which is one reason why I am forced to distance myself from
      what is going on with some Covenanters. The other reason is because I
      need to let those Covenanters that are being excommunicated because
      they are unable to go along with these "extraordinary" things, know
      that they are not rejected by all Covenanters, expecially not by those
      of us who could never in good conscience join the "RPNA (GM)" in the
      first place, despite our agreement with the Six Terms of Communion
      that are supposed to be terms of unity between Covenanters. The
      former reason is concern for the truth of Jesus Christ, the latter is
      a matter of compassion.

      I'm sorry if this is upsetting to anyone, especially to those whom I
      care about and consider to be brothers. I hate controversy, and
      taking sides. But I had to say something.

      gmw.
    • Ginny Dohms
      ... something you ... As I stated above, I will state again - I am not going to engage in this in a public forum. It will only cause harm to the cause of
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 5, 2006
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        > I would be willing to discuss this further offline if it is
        something you
        > wish/need to understand more fully, but I am not about to discuss any
        > particulars in a public forum.

        As I stated above, I will state again - I am not going to engage in this in
        a public forum. It will only cause harm to the cause of Christ and I will
        not be a part of that.

        Bowing gracefully out of any further discussions on this subject....Ginny
      • Tom
        Ginny, Private actions warrant private discussions: these are public acts. It is clearly a duty to publicly protest unlawful public acts and say, not in our
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 6, 2006
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          Ginny,

          Private actions warrant private discussions: these are public acts.
          It is clearly a duty to publicly protest unlawful public acts and
          say, "not in our name." Not only are these acts not a Reformed or
          Presbyterian, they are not even biblical Christianity: these are
          further acts of tyranny and oppression done under color of law.
          They are to be opposed.

          It appears from the public record that the leadership sincerely
          believe they are doing the right thing, but I believe they are in
          serious error and doing an incredible amount of damage, even if
          unintentional.

          Tom







          --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Ginny Dohms"
          <gdawn@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > > I would be willing to discuss this further offline if it is
          > something you
          > > wish/need to understand more fully, but I am not about to discuss
          any
          > > particulars in a public forum.
          >
          > As I stated above, I will state again - I am not going to engage in
          this in
          > a public forum. It will only cause harm to the cause of Christ and
          I will
          > not be a part of that.
          >
          > Bowing gracefully out of any further discussions on this
          subject....Ginny
          >
        • stroberson@charter.net
          I m lost!!! I just recently joined this group, and I have no idea what anyone is talking about. I was expecting a list on covenantal theology. Can someone
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 6, 2006
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            I'm lost!!!

            I just recently joined this group, and I have no idea what anyone is talking about. I was expecting a list on covenantal theology. Can someone explain what you are talking about? Maybe I need to be somewhere else.

            In His Service,
            Shawn Roberson
            Memorial Presbyterian (PCA)
            Elizabethton, TN
          • Kevin Guillory
            From: ... I m lost too. The posts about wayward Covenanters just showed up unexpectedly. It s all taking place out of context for
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 7, 2006
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              From: <stroberson@...>


              > I'm lost!!!
              > I have no idea what anyone is talking about.

              I'm lost too. The posts about "wayward Covenanters" just showed up
              unexpectedly. It's all taking place out of context for me too.

              In Christ,
              KEvin
            • gmw
              Sorry about this, Shawn. This is a place where we can discuss covenantal theology. If you have a topic in mind, let us know. What s going on here lately is
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 10, 2006
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                Sorry about this, Shawn.

                This is a place where we can discuss covenantal theology. If you have
                a topic in mind, let us know.

                What's going on here lately is that a church group calling themselves
                the Reformed Presbytery of North America (General Meeting), proporting
                to be the faithful maintainers of the traditions of the Covenanters
                (Reformed Presbyterians), has recently expelled quite a few members
                (10 in one shot, by my count), excommunicating them, for their
                unwillingness to swear an oath affirming the lawful authority of the
                one teaching elder (in the US) and their 2 ruling elders (in Canada)
                to rule together as a session that has authority not over one local
                church, but over several bodies of people (called societies) under
                their inspection in various places throughout the US and Canada.

                Some of us who identify with the Covenanters/Reformed Presbyterians,
                but are not members of this group, felt the need to respond to this
                public act by publically testifying against it, and by reaching out
                our hands of fellowship to those who have been put out of their church.

                I hope this helps, and I apologize for the delayed response.

                gmw.

                --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, <stroberson@...> wrote:
                >
                > I'm lost!!!
                >
                > I just recently joined this group, and I have no idea what anyone is
                talking about. I was expecting a list on covenantal theology. Can
                someone explain what you are talking about? Maybe I need to be
                somewhere else.
                >
                > In His Service,
                > Shawn Roberson
                > Memorial Presbyterian (PCA)
                > Elizabethton, TN
                >
              • Shawn T. Roberson
                ... Are these the Stillwater Revival Books folks? In His Service, Shawn
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 11, 2006
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                  GMW wrote:

                  > Reformed Presbytery of North America (General Meeting)

                  Are these the Stillwater Revival Books folks?

                  In His Service,
                  Shawn
                • gmw
                  You ve got the right people in mind, Shawn, yes. gmw.
                  Message 8 of 9 , Nov 11, 2006
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                    You've got the right people in mind, Shawn, yes.

                    gmw.

                    --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Shawn T. Roberson"
                    <stroberson@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > GMW wrote:
                    >
                    > > Reformed Presbytery of North America (General Meeting)
                    >
                    > Are these the Stillwater Revival Books folks?
                    >
                    > In His Service,
                    > Shawn
                    >
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