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Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalters

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  • Larry Bump
    ... From: trygvesson@aol.com ... And we could multiply examples. I am also unhappy and uncomfortable with repeating lines soley to make meter . ... Blue
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 19, 2006
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: trygvesson@...

      > Aye, Psalm 119x came to mind as I was writing
      > today, as well as 117a and 41a.

      And we could multiply examples. I am also unhappy and uncomfortable with
      repeating lines soley to "make meter".

      > BTW, what Psalter did the RPCNA use prior to 1973,

      "Blue Psalter", I believe it is the "Psalm of David with Music".
      I was an evil little Papist at the time, so I never used it. I do own a
      couple, but that's it.

      > and what were the stated reasons for making the change to the current
      > Psalter?

      I dunno. Maybe Pastor Pockras would know. I do know that some
      congregations and families were sundered by it.
      OK, I called him. Basically to modernize/improve translations, get "more
      sigable" tunes, and all that sort of thing.

      Larry
    • Glenn Ferrell
      Psalms for Singing (RPCNA) does appear to be an improvement over the 1912 UPCNA Psalter. The Trinity Hymnal, with has a limited number of metrical psalms
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 19, 2006
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        Psalms for Singing (RPCNA) does appear to be an improvement over the 1912 UPCNA Psalter.  The Trinity Hymnal, with has a limited number of metrical psalms relied too much on the 1912.  Psalms from that Psalter tended to be much more like paraphrases and the tunes were in a key too high. 
         
        I've been critical of the attempts to sing Psalms from the Trinity Hymnal because:
         
        1)  Limited selection.
        2)  Loose paraphrases.
        3)  People are not aware they are singing from God's Word.
        4)  The most unsingable tunes, providing a negative experience and causing members of the congregation to think they don't like singing Psalms.
         
        Glenn
        Pastor, SRPC
        Boise, Idaho
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 6:16 PM
        Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalters


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: trygvesson@aol. com

        > Aye, Psalm 119x came to mind as I was writing
        > today, as well as 117a and 41a.

        And we could multiply examples. I am also unhappy and uncomfortable with
        repeating lines soley to "make meter".

        > BTW, what Psalter did the RPCNA use prior to 1973,

        "Blue Psalter", I believe it is the "Psalm of David with Music".
        I was an evil little Papist at the time, so I never used it. I do own a
        couple, but that's it.

        > and what were the stated reasons for making the change to the current
        > Psalter?

        I dunno. Maybe Pastor Pockras would know. I do know that some
        congregations and families were sundered by it.
        OK, I called him. Basically to modernize/improve translations, get "more
        sigable" tunes, and all that sort of thing.

        Larry

      • Glenn Ferrell
        You may find a downloadable zipped file of Scottish and Irish Psalm tunes in the files section of my Songs of Zion Yahoo discussion group:
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 19, 2006
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          You may find a downloadable zipped file of Scottish and Irish Psalm tunes in the files section of my Songs of Zion Yahoo discussion group:
           
           
          Not a lot of traffic there lately.  But this discussion here is the sort of stuff I'd like to see.
           
          Glenn
          Boise, Idaho
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 6:08 PM
          Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalters

          In a message dated 8/19/2006 5:30:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jglennferrell@ msn.com writes:
          If you examine the tunes of the Scottish and Irish split leaf Psalters, you will find they are simple and reverent.  I’ve worshiped with Scottish and Irish congregations, in which few individuals had any musical training, but where they sung enthusiastically and reverently.  Psalms and tunes sung over and over become part of these believers piety.  While living in Scotland, my wife experienced on a congregational outing bus trip: someone called out a Psalm by number, announced a tune, and everyone on the bus joined in singing from memory. 
           
          Complexity in church music is part of the same sinful tendency that desires to add our invention and efforts to what God has done.  Yes, human intelligence and ability must translate the Scriptures into the vernacular, put the Psalms in metrical form, and provide music for their singing.  However, there should be a minimal display of ourselves in what we provide. 
          Pastor Ferrell,
           
          I appreciate your thoughts on this subject, especially those above. Thank you for interacting with my questions.
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
          Christopher Coombes

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        • trygvesson@aol.com
          In a message dated 8/19/2006 8:18:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lbump@earthlink.net writes: And we could multiply examples. I am also unhappy and
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 19, 2006
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            In a message dated 8/19/2006 8:18:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lbump@... writes:
            "And we could multiply examples. I am also unhappy and uncomfortable with
            repeating lines soley to "make meter"."
             
            Aye, we could definitely multiply examples.  Though at least we do not have the sad situation of a Psalter that cuts out the portions of God's word which made the editors uncomfortable :-)
             
            In a message dated 8/19/2006 8:18:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lbump@... writes:
            > CSC: and what were the stated reasons for making the change to the current
            >
            Psalter?


            "I dunno. Maybe Pastor Pockras would know. I do know that some
            congregations and families were sundered by it.
            OK, I called him. Basically to modernize/improve translations, get "more
            sigable" tunes, and all that sort of thing."
            Larry, considering a prior Psalter which had even less singable tunes than this one is a bit sad. Even sadder is the report that the change to our current Psalter sundered congregations and families. Not liking a particular Psalter that one must use is one thing, but dividing the body of Christ over it is quite another. My personable preference is for a split leaf staffed Psalter such as the Irish RPs use, but I hope my personal preference, even with practical considerations in mind, would never rend a family or Christ's church! It must have been quite an issue at the time.
             
            I do remember one RP family I visited out west who had come into the RPCNA from the APS merger, and they had a box full of split leaf Psalters which they had used when they were APS members.
             
            Out of curiosity, when was the last year that the Psalms of David in Meter was widely used throughout the RPCNA?
             
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            Christopher Coombes

                                                                            _
                                                                           / )
                                                         (\__/)         ( (
                                                          )    (           ) )
                                                       ={      }=       / /
                                                          )     `-------/ /
                                                         (               /
                                                          \              |
                                                          ,'\       ,    ,'
                                                          `-'\  ,---\   | \
                                                             _) )    `. \ /
                                                            (__/       ) )
                                                                      (_/
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