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Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalters

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  • trygvesson@aol.com
    Pastor Ferrell, Greetings! Thank you for your reply regarding a favorite Psalter and for your list of reasons for preferring the Psalms of David in Meter. I
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 19, 2006
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      Pastor Ferrell,

       

      Greetings! Thank you for your reply regarding a favorite Psalter and for your list of reasons for preferring the "Psalms of David in Meter."

       

      I found your analysis in point #6 to be particularly useful in practical terms of introducing others to Psalm singing. Upon further consideration, this point appears to me to have further value for those already familiar with singing the Psalms.

       

      I appreciate your line of reasoning regarding the distinct advantage to not having tunes in the Psalter with the words, that "a family or congregation may learn an dozen common meter tunes and sing the entire Psalter, adding additional tunes in time." Do you also think that with a fewer number of tunes and simpler, easier to sing tunes, a family or congregation may additionally benefit in worship by having the freedom of mind to focus more of their thought and attention upon the words and content of the Psalm, rather than being distracted by the musical complexity of the tune selection and the various challenges of trying to get the tune right?

       

      Also, out of curiosity, what do you think has driven practice in the other direction of having multiple and often times complex tunes for each Psalm or portion of a given Psalm?

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Christopher Coombes


                                                                      _
                                                                     / )
                                                   (\__/)         ( (
                                                    )    (           ) )
                                                 ={      }=       / /
                                                    )     `-------/ /
                                                   (               /
                                                    \              |
                                                    ,'\       ,    ,'
                                                    `-'\  ,---\   | \
                                                       _) )    `. \ /
                                                      (__/       ) )
                                                                (_/
       
      In a message dated 8/16/2006 11:12:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jglennferrell@... writes:

      I always recommend Psalms of David in Meter, because:
       
      1.  It is a faithful translation and less of a paraphrase than most.
       
      2.  It was done during the Scottish Second Reformation and was authorized by the CoS General Assembly.
       
      3  Although some of the words and phrasing are archaic, this is nothing that can not be overcome by some instruction.  It is as usable as the KJV.
       
      4  It is used by faithful Reformed churches around the world (Free Church of Scotland, Free Church Continuing, Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland, Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland), being the closest thing to an English language common Psalter.  It is the version published in the backs of many Trinitarian Bible Society Bibles.
       
      5. It is cheap and readily available from TBS for $7.40 per copy, closer to $5.00 for a case of 20.  This is a non music version (just the words).  I just ordered 25 and got the discounted price.  I keep a case or so in the trunk of my car for Bible studies, prayer meetings or when a group just wants to sing Psalms.  I have also given away many of these to folks expressing an interest in Psalm singing for private, family or public worship.
       
      6.  There is an advantage to not having tunes in the Psalter with the words.  Without specific tunes attached particular Psalms, a family or congregation may learn an dozen common meter tunes and sing the entire Psalter, adding additional tunes in time. 
       
      7.  One may obtain a Scottish or Irish 'split-leaf' Psalter (also PDM), which includes all the traditional Psalm tunes.  These tunes are also available on the internet.  I can send a zipped file to anyone interested in obtaining these to play on your computer.
       
      Glenn Ferrell
      Pastor, Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian Church (OPC)
      Boise, Idaho 
       
       
    • Larry Bump
      I have often thought this over the last twenty years, for what it is worth. I have felt an unwarranted desire to please man is the root cause of all the
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 19, 2006
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        I have often thought this over the last twenty years, for what it is worth.
        I have felt an unwarranted desire to please man is the root cause of all the difficult, complex, and flowery tunes. 
         
        I do not think Yahweh is more pleased with 119X sung by half the congregation (while the other half struggles, or gives up) than He is by 119W sung easily by all.
         
        Larry
        ----- Original Message -----
         
        Do you also think that with a fewer number of tunes and simpler, easier to sing tunes, a family or congregation may additionally benefit in worship by having the freedom of mind to focus more of their thought and attention upon the words and content of the Psalm, rather than being distracted by the musical complexity of the tune selection and the various challenges of trying to get the tune right?
      • Glenn Ferrell
        The biblical principles found in 1 Corinthians regarding speaking in unknown tongues, applied by Protestants to producing the Scriptures in the vernacular,
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 19, 2006
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          The biblical principles found in 1 Corinthians regarding speaking in unknown tongues, applied by Protestants to producing the Scriptures in the vernacular, might also be applied to the content and music of praise.  Everything in public worship should be understandable and unifying of the congregation.  Tunes beyond the capacity of a large segment of the congregation do not meet this test.
           
          If you examine the tunes of the Scottish and Irish split leaf Psalters, you will find they are simple and reverent.  I’ve worshiped with Scottish and Irish congregations, in which few individuals had any musical training, but where they sung enthusiastically and reverently.  Psalms and tunes sung over and over become part of these believers piety.  While living in Scotland, my wife experienced on a congregational outing bus trip: someone called out a Psalm by number, announced a tune, and everyone on the bus joined in singing from memory. 
           
          Complexity in church music is part of the same sinful tendency that desires to add our invention and efforts to what God has done.  Yes, human intelligence and ability must translate the Scriptures into the vernacular, put the Psalms in metrical form, and provide music for their singing.  However, there should be a minimal display of ourselves in what we provide. 
           
          Simple tunes, sung slowly and reverently, allow for meditation on the Word of God.  Many Scottish Psalm tunes are old traditional tunes from particular local congregations, the composer’s name long forgotten.  They are usually quarter, half and whole notes, nothing too complex.  Since most are four line common meter, they are easy to pick up and memorize after singing a few times.  I encourage people to learn the tunes by name.  Then, it is easy to specify a particular tune by name to be sung with a particular Psalm.  So one may request Psalm 23 to Evan, Psalm 46 to Stroudwater, or Psalm 2 to York.
           
          As I said, with only a dozen tunes or so, one can sing the entire Psalter, making it through at least three services before repeating yourself.  And, new tunes are easy to introduce and learn.
           
          Glenn Ferrell
          Pastor, SRPC
          Boise, Idaho
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 2:19 PM
          Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalters

          Pastor Ferrell,

          Greetings! Thank you for your reply regarding a favorite Psalter and for your list of reasons for preferring the "Psalms of David in Meter."

          I found your analysis in point #6 to be particularly useful in practical terms of introducing others to Psalm singing. Upon further consideration, this point appears to me to have further value for those already familiar with singing the Psalms.

          I appreciate your line of reasoning regarding the distinct advantage to not having tunes in the Psalter with the words, that "a family or congregation may learn an dozen common meter tunes and sing the entire Psalter, adding additional tunes in time." Do you also think that with a fewer number of tunes and simpler, easier to sing tunes, a family or congregation may additionally benefit in worship by having the freedom of mind to focus more of their thought and attention upon the words and content of the Psalm, rather than being distracted by the musical complexity of the tune selection and the various challenges of trying to get the tune right?

          Also, out of curiosity, what do you think has driven practice in the other direction of having multiple and often times complex tunes for each Psalm or portion of a given Psalm?

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
          Christopher Coombes


                                                                          _
                                                                         / )
                                                       (\__/)         ( (
                                                        )    (           ) )
                                                     ={      }=       / /
                                                        )     `-------/ /
                                                       (               /
                                                        \              |
                                                        ,'\       ,    ,'
                                                        `-'\  ,---\   | \
                                                           _) )    `. \ /
                                                          (__/       ) )
                                                                    (_/
           
          In a message dated 8/16/2006 11:12:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jglennferrell@ msn.com writes:

          I always recommend Psalms of David in Meter, because:
           
          1.  It is a faithful translation and less of a paraphrase than most.
           
          2.  It was done during the Scottish Second Reformation and was authorized by the CoS General Assembly.
           
          3  Although some of the words and phrasing are archaic, this is nothing that can not be overcome by some instruction.  It is as usable as the KJV.
           
          4  It is used by faithful Reformed churches around the world (Free Church of Scotland, Free Church Continuing, Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland, Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland), being the closest thing to an English language common Psalter.  It is the version published in the backs of many Trinitarian Bible Society Bibles.
           
          5. It is cheap and readily available from TBS for $7.40 per copy, closer to $5.00 for a case of 20.  This is a non music version (just the words).  I just ordered 25 and got the discounted price.  I keep a case or so in the trunk of my car for Bible studies, prayer meetings or when a group just wants to sing Psalms.  I have also given away many of these to folks expressing an interest in Psalm singing for private, family or public worship.
           
          6.  There is an advantage to not having tunes in the Psalter with the words.  Without specific tunes attached particular Psalms, a family or congregation may learn an dozen common meter tunes and sing the entire Psalter, adding additional tunes in time. 
           
          7.  One may obtain a Scottish or Irish 'split-leaf' Psalter (also PDM), which includes all the traditional Psalm tunes.  These tunes are also available on the internet.  I can send a zipped file to anyone interested in obtaining these to play on your computer.
           
          Glenn Ferrell
          Pastor, Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian Church (OPC)
          Boise, Idaho 
           
           

        • Larry Bump
          Psalm 2 to York is an odd combination, but otherwise I am with you completely. ... From: Glenn Ferrell To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com Sent:
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 19, 2006
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            Psalm 2 to York is an odd combination, but otherwise I am with you completely.
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 5:23 PM
            Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalters

            The biblical principles found in 1 Corinthians regarding speaking in unknown tongues, applied by Protestants to producing the Scriptures in the vernacular, might also be applied to the content and music of praise.  Everything in public worship should be understandable and unifying of the congregation.  Tunes beyond the capacity of a large segment of the congregation do not meet this test.
             
            If you examine the tunes of the Scottish and Irish split leaf Psalters, you will find they are simple and reverent.  I’ve worshiped with Scottish and Irish congregations, in which few individuals had any musical training, but where they sung enthusiastically and reverently.  Psalms and tunes sung over and over become part of these believers piety.  While living in Scotland, my wife experienced on a congregational outing bus trip: someone called out a Psalm by number, announced a tune, and everyone on the bus joined in singing from memory. 
             
            Complexity in church music is part of the same sinful tendency that desires to add our invention and efforts to what God has done.  Yes, human intelligence and ability must translate the Scriptures into the vernacular, put the Psalms in metrical form, and provide music for their singing.  However, there should be a minimal display of ourselves in what we provide. 
             
            Simple tunes, sung slowly and reverently, allow for meditation on the Word of God.  Many Scottish Psalm tunes are old traditional tunes from particular local congregations, the composer’s name long forgotten.  They are usually quarter, half and whole notes, nothing too complex.  Since most are four line common meter, they are easy to pick up and memorize after singing a few times.  I encourage people to learn the tunes by name.  Then, it is easy to specify a particular tune by name to be sung with a particular Psalm.  So one may request Psalm 23 to Evan, Psalm 46 to Stroudwater, or Psalm 2 to York.
             
            As I said, with only a dozen tunes or so, one can sing the entire Psalter, making it through at least three services before repeating yourself.  And, new tunes are easy to introduce and learn.
             
            Glenn Ferrell
            Pastor, SRPC
            Boise, Idaho
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 2:19 PM
            Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalters

            Pastor Ferrell,

            Greetings! Thank you for your reply regarding a favorite Psalter and for your list of reasons for preferring the "Psalms of David in Meter."

            I found your analysis in point #6 to be particularly useful in practical terms of introducing others to Psalm singing. Upon further consideration, this point appears to me to have further value for those already familiar with singing the Psalms.

            I appreciate your line of reasoning regarding the distinct advantage to not having tunes in the Psalter with the words, that "a family or congregation may learn an dozen common meter tunes and sing the entire Psalter, adding additional tunes in time." Do you also think that with a fewer number of tunes and simpler, easier to sing tunes, a family or congregation may additionally benefit in worship by having the freedom of mind to focus more of their thought and attention upon the words and content of the Psalm, rather than being distracted by the musical complexity of the tune selection and the various challenges of trying to get the tune right?

            Also, out of curiosity, what do you think has driven practice in the other direction of having multiple and often times complex tunes for each Psalm or portion of a given Psalm?

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
            Christopher Coombes


                                                                            _
                                                                           / )
                                                         (\__/)         ( (
                                                          )    (           ) )
                                                       ={      }=       / /
                                                          )     `-------/ /
                                                         (               /
                                                          \              |
                                                          ,'\       ,    ,'
                                                          `-'\  ,---\   | \
                                                             _) )    `. \ /
                                                            (__/       ) )
                                                                      (_/
             
            In a message dated 8/16/2006 11:12:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jglennferrell@ msn.com writes:

            I always recommend Psalms of David in Meter, because:
             
            1.  It is a faithful translation and less of a paraphrase than most.
             
            2.  It was done during the Scottish Second Reformation and was authorized by the CoS General Assembly.
             
            3  Although some of the words and phrasing are archaic, this is nothing that can not be overcome by some instruction.  It is as usable as the KJV.
             
            4  It is used by faithful Reformed churches around the world (Free Church of Scotland, Free Church Continuing, Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland, Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland), being the closest thing to an English language common Psalter.  It is the version published in the backs of many Trinitarian Bible Society Bibles.
             
            5. It is cheap and readily available from TBS for $7.40 per copy, closer to $5.00 for a case of 20.  This is a non music version (just the words).  I just ordered 25 and got the discounted price.  I keep a case or so in the trunk of my car for Bible studies, prayer meetings or when a group just wants to sing Psalms.  I have also given away many of these to folks expressing an interest in Psalm singing for private, family or public worship.
             
            6.  There is an advantage to not having tunes in the Psalter with the words.  Without specific tunes attached particular Psalms, a family or congregation may learn an dozen common meter tunes and sing the entire Psalter, adding additional tunes in time. 
             
            7.  One may obtain a Scottish or Irish 'split-leaf' Psalter (also PDM), which includes all the traditional Psalm tunes.  These tunes are also available on the internet.  I can send a zipped file to anyone interested in obtaining these to play on your computer.
             
            Glenn Ferrell
            Pastor, Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian Church (OPC)
            Boise, Idaho 
             
             

          • Glenn Ferrell
            The Free Church of Scotland split leaf Psalter, 2003 edition, lists four recommended tunes for Psalm 2: 149 York 88 Montrose 114 St. Gregory 144 Westminster
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 19, 2006
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              The Free Church of Scotland split leaf Psalter, 2003 edition, lists four recommended tunes for Psalm 2:
               
              149 York
              88 Montrose
              114 St. Gregory
              144 Westminster
               
              Glenn
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 3:49 PM
              Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalters

              Psalm 2 to York is an odd combination, but otherwise I am with you completely.
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 5:23 PM
              Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalters

              The biblical principles found in 1 Corinthians regarding speaking in unknown tongues, applied by Protestants to producing the Scriptures in the vernacular, might also be applied to the content and music of praise.  Everything in public worship should be understandable and unifying of the congregation.  Tunes beyond the capacity of a large segment of the congregation do not meet this test.
               
              If you examine the tunes of the Scottish and Irish split leaf Psalters, you will find they are simple and reverent.  I’ve worshiped with Scottish and Irish congregations, in which few individuals had any musical training, but where they sung enthusiastically and reverently.  Psalms and tunes sung over and over become part of these believers piety.  While living in Scotland, my wife experienced on a congregational outing bus trip: someone called out a Psalm by number, announced a tune, and everyone on the bus joined in singing from memory. 
               
              Complexity in church music is part of the same sinful tendency that desires to add our invention and efforts to what God has done.  Yes, human intelligence and ability must translate the Scriptures into the vernacular, put the Psalms in metrical form, and provide music for their singing.  However, there should be a minimal display of ourselves in what we provide. 
               
              Simple tunes, sung slowly and reverently, allow for meditation on the Word of God.  Many Scottish Psalm tunes are old traditional tunes from particular local congregations, the composer’s name long forgotten.  They are usually quarter, half and whole notes, nothing too complex.  Since most are four line common meter, they are easy to pick up and memorize after singing a few times.  I encourage people to learn the tunes by name.  Then, it is easy to specify a particular tune by name to be sung with a particular Psalm.  So one may request Psalm 23 to Evan, Psalm 46 to Stroudwater, or Psalm 2 to York.
               
              As I said, with only a dozen tunes or so, one can sing the entire Psalter, making it through at least three services before repeating yourself.  And, new tunes are easy to introduce and learn.
               
              Glenn Ferrell
              Pastor, SRPC
              Boise, Idaho
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 2:19 PM
              Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalters

              Pastor Ferrell,

              Greetings! Thank you for your reply regarding a favorite Psalter and for your list of reasons for preferring the "Psalms of David in Meter."

              I found your analysis in point #6 to be particularly useful in practical terms of introducing others to Psalm singing. Upon further consideration, this point appears to me to have further value for those already familiar with singing the Psalms.

              I appreciate your line of reasoning regarding the distinct advantage to not having tunes in the Psalter with the words, that "a family or congregation may learn an dozen common meter tunes and sing the entire Psalter, adding additional tunes in time." Do you also think that with a fewer number of tunes and simpler, easier to sing tunes, a family or congregation may additionally benefit in worship by having the freedom of mind to focus more of their thought and attention upon the words and content of the Psalm, rather than being distracted by the musical complexity of the tune selection and the various challenges of trying to get the tune right?

              Also, out of curiosity, what do you think has driven practice in the other direction of having multiple and often times complex tunes for each Psalm or portion of a given Psalm?

              ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
              Christopher Coombes


                                                                              _
                                                                             / )
                                                           (\__/)         ( (
                                                            )    (           ) )
                                                         ={      }=       / /
                                                            )     `-------/ /
                                                           (               /
                                                            \              |
                                                            ,'\       ,    ,'
                                                            `-'\  ,---\   | \
                                                               _) )    `. \ /
                                                              (__/       ) )
                                                                        (_/
               
              In a message dated 8/16/2006 11:12:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jglennferrell@ msn.com writes:

              I always recommend Psalms of David in Meter, because:
               
              1.  It is a faithful translation and less of a paraphrase than most.
               
              2.  It was done during the Scottish Second Reformation and was authorized by the CoS General Assembly.
               
              3  Although some of the words and phrasing are archaic, this is nothing that can not be overcome by some instruction.  It is as usable as the KJV.
               
              4  It is used by faithful Reformed churches around the world (Free Church of Scotland, Free Church Continuing, Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland, Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland), being the closest thing to an English language common Psalter.  It is the version published in the backs of many Trinitarian Bible Society Bibles.
               
              5. It is cheap and readily available from TBS for $7.40 per copy, closer to $5.00 for a case of 20.  This is a non music version (just the words).  I just ordered 25 and got the discounted price.  I keep a case or so in the trunk of my car for Bible studies, prayer meetings or when a group just wants to sing Psalms.  I have also given away many of these to folks expressing an interest in Psalm singing for private, family or public worship.
               
              6.  There is an advantage to not having tunes in the Psalter with the words.  Without specific tunes attached particular Psalms, a family or congregation may learn an dozen common meter tunes and sing the entire Psalter, adding additional tunes in time. 
               
              7.  One may obtain a Scottish or Irish 'split-leaf' Psalter (also PDM), which includes all the traditional Psalm tunes.  These tunes are also available on the internet.  I can send a zipped file to anyone interested in obtaining these to play on your computer.
               
              Glenn Ferrell
              Pastor, Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian Church (OPC)
              Boise, Idaho 
               
               

            • trygvesson@aol.com
              In a message dated 8/19/2006 4:48:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lbump@earthlink.net writes: have often thought this over the last twenty years, for what it
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 19, 2006
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                In a message dated 8/19/2006 4:48:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lbump@... writes:
                have often thought this over the last twenty years, for what it is worth.
                I have felt an unwarranted desire to please man is the root cause of all the difficult, complex, and flowery tunes. 
                 
                I do not think Yahweh is more pleased with 119X sung by half the congregation (while the other half struggles, or gives up) than He is by 119W sung easily by all.
                 
                Larry
                Larry,
                 
                Aye, Psalm 119x came to mind as I was writing today, as well as 117a and 41a.
                 
                BTW, what Psalter did the RPCNA use prior to 1973, and what were the stated reasons for making the change to the current Psalter?
                 
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                Christopher Coombes

                                                                                _
                                                                               / )
                                                             (\__/)         ( (
                                                              )    (           ) )
                                                           ={      }=       / /
                                                              )     `-------/ /
                                                             (               /
                                                              \              |
                                                              ,'\       ,    ,'
                                                              `-'\  ,---\   | \
                                                                 _) )    `. \ /
                                                                (__/       ) )
                                                                          (_/
              • trygvesson@aol.com
                In a message dated 8/19/2006 5:30:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jglennferrell@msn.com writes: If you examine the tunes of the Scottish and Irish split leaf
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 19, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  In a message dated 8/19/2006 5:30:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jglennferrell@... writes:
                  If you examine the tunes of the Scottish and Irish split leaf Psalters, you will find they are simple and reverent.  I’ve worshiped with Scottish and Irish congregations, in which few individuals had any musical training, but where they sung enthusiastically and reverently.  Psalms and tunes sung over and over become part of these believers piety.  While living in Scotland, my wife experienced on a congregational outing bus trip: someone called out a Psalm by number, announced a tune, and everyone on the bus joined in singing from memory. 
                   
                  Complexity in church music is part of the same sinful tendency that desires to add our invention and efforts to what God has done.  Yes, human intelligence and ability must translate the Scriptures into the vernacular, put the Psalms in metrical form, and provide music for their singing.  However, there should be a minimal display of ourselves in what we provide. 
                  Pastor Ferrell,
                   
                  I appreciate your thoughts on this subject, especially those above. Thank you for interacting with my questions.
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  Christopher Coombes

                                                                                  _
                                                                                 / )
                                                               (\__/)         ( (
                                                                )    (           ) )
                                                             ={      }=       / /
                                                                )     `-------/ /
                                                               (               /
                                                                \              |
                                                                ,'\       ,    ,'
                                                                `-'\  ,---\   | \
                                                                   _) )    `. \ /
                                                                  (__/       ) )
                                                                            (_/
                • Larry Bump
                  ... From: trygvesson@aol.com ... And we could multiply examples. I am also unhappy and uncomfortable with repeating lines soley to make meter . ... Blue
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 19, 2006
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                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: trygvesson@...

                    > Aye, Psalm 119x came to mind as I was writing
                    > today, as well as 117a and 41a.

                    And we could multiply examples. I am also unhappy and uncomfortable with
                    repeating lines soley to "make meter".

                    > BTW, what Psalter did the RPCNA use prior to 1973,

                    "Blue Psalter", I believe it is the "Psalm of David with Music".
                    I was an evil little Papist at the time, so I never used it. I do own a
                    couple, but that's it.

                    > and what were the stated reasons for making the change to the current
                    > Psalter?

                    I dunno. Maybe Pastor Pockras would know. I do know that some
                    congregations and families were sundered by it.
                    OK, I called him. Basically to modernize/improve translations, get "more
                    sigable" tunes, and all that sort of thing.

                    Larry
                  • Glenn Ferrell
                    Psalms for Singing (RPCNA) does appear to be an improvement over the 1912 UPCNA Psalter. The Trinity Hymnal, with has a limited number of metrical psalms
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 19, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Psalms for Singing (RPCNA) does appear to be an improvement over the 1912 UPCNA Psalter.  The Trinity Hymnal, with has a limited number of metrical psalms relied too much on the 1912.  Psalms from that Psalter tended to be much more like paraphrases and the tunes were in a key too high. 
                       
                      I've been critical of the attempts to sing Psalms from the Trinity Hymnal because:
                       
                      1)  Limited selection.
                      2)  Loose paraphrases.
                      3)  People are not aware they are singing from God's Word.
                      4)  The most unsingable tunes, providing a negative experience and causing members of the congregation to think they don't like singing Psalms.
                       
                      Glenn
                      Pastor, SRPC
                      Boise, Idaho
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 6:16 PM
                      Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalters


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: trygvesson@aol. com

                      > Aye, Psalm 119x came to mind as I was writing
                      > today, as well as 117a and 41a.

                      And we could multiply examples. I am also unhappy and uncomfortable with
                      repeating lines soley to "make meter".

                      > BTW, what Psalter did the RPCNA use prior to 1973,

                      "Blue Psalter", I believe it is the "Psalm of David with Music".
                      I was an evil little Papist at the time, so I never used it. I do own a
                      couple, but that's it.

                      > and what were the stated reasons for making the change to the current
                      > Psalter?

                      I dunno. Maybe Pastor Pockras would know. I do know that some
                      congregations and families were sundered by it.
                      OK, I called him. Basically to modernize/improve translations, get "more
                      sigable" tunes, and all that sort of thing.

                      Larry

                    • Glenn Ferrell
                      You may find a downloadable zipped file of Scottish and Irish Psalm tunes in the files section of my Songs of Zion Yahoo discussion group:
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 19, 2006
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                        You may find a downloadable zipped file of Scottish and Irish Psalm tunes in the files section of my Songs of Zion Yahoo discussion group:
                         
                         
                        Not a lot of traffic there lately.  But this discussion here is the sort of stuff I'd like to see.
                         
                        Glenn
                        Boise, Idaho
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 6:08 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Psalters

                        In a message dated 8/19/2006 5:30:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jglennferrell@ msn.com writes:
                        If you examine the tunes of the Scottish and Irish split leaf Psalters, you will find they are simple and reverent.  I’ve worshiped with Scottish and Irish congregations, in which few individuals had any musical training, but where they sung enthusiastically and reverently.  Psalms and tunes sung over and over become part of these believers piety.  While living in Scotland, my wife experienced on a congregational outing bus trip: someone called out a Psalm by number, announced a tune, and everyone on the bus joined in singing from memory. 
                         
                        Complexity in church music is part of the same sinful tendency that desires to add our invention and efforts to what God has done.  Yes, human intelligence and ability must translate the Scriptures into the vernacular, put the Psalms in metrical form, and provide music for their singing.  However, there should be a minimal display of ourselves in what we provide. 
                        Pastor Ferrell,
                         
                        I appreciate your thoughts on this subject, especially those above. Thank you for interacting with my questions.
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
                        Christopher Coombes

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                      • trygvesson@aol.com
                        In a message dated 8/19/2006 8:18:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lbump@earthlink.net writes: And we could multiply examples. I am also unhappy and
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 19, 2006
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                          In a message dated 8/19/2006 8:18:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lbump@... writes:
                          "And we could multiply examples. I am also unhappy and uncomfortable with
                          repeating lines soley to "make meter"."
                           
                          Aye, we could definitely multiply examples.  Though at least we do not have the sad situation of a Psalter that cuts out the portions of God's word which made the editors uncomfortable :-)
                           
                          In a message dated 8/19/2006 8:18:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lbump@... writes:
                          > CSC: and what were the stated reasons for making the change to the current
                          >
                          Psalter?


                          "I dunno. Maybe Pastor Pockras would know. I do know that some
                          congregations and families were sundered by it.
                          OK, I called him. Basically to modernize/improve translations, get "more
                          sigable" tunes, and all that sort of thing."
                          Larry, considering a prior Psalter which had even less singable tunes than this one is a bit sad. Even sadder is the report that the change to our current Psalter sundered congregations and families. Not liking a particular Psalter that one must use is one thing, but dividing the body of Christ over it is quite another. My personable preference is for a split leaf staffed Psalter such as the Irish RPs use, but I hope my personal preference, even with practical considerations in mind, would never rend a family or Christ's church! It must have been quite an issue at the time.
                           
                          I do remember one RP family I visited out west who had come into the RPCNA from the APS merger, and they had a box full of split leaf Psalters which they had used when they were APS members.
                           
                          Out of curiosity, when was the last year that the Psalms of David in Meter was widely used throughout the RPCNA?
                           
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          Christopher Coombes

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