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Re: [Covenanted Reformation] church

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  • Larry Bump
    Would you mind telling me who this was, off list? lbump@earthlink.net RPCNA elder. Frankly, I disagree with him, and would know who gave this advice. Larry
    Message 1 of 12 , May 21, 2006
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      Would you mind telling me who this was, off list?
      lbump@...

      RPCNA elder.
      Frankly, I disagree with him, and would know who gave this advice.

      Larry
      Elder, RPCNA


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "CRYSTAL SATHER" <crystal.sather@...>
      To: <covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 4:11 PM
      Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] church


      I am amazed at some "reformed" ministers. I was talking to one in the RPCNA
      here in our area and he told me to find a church that is as close to what I
      believe as I can find. Give it 1 month before deciding if I want to belong
      there. He gave me some "good" ones that sing hymns, even though he himself
      is an exclusive psalmist. I said if you won't go there to worship, why
      would I go if I am an exclusive psalmist? He said I need to go to church
      somewhere.!!!!! Get that!!!??


      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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    • Jasper
      He said I need to go to church somewhere.!!!!! its better to not belong to any church, than one that would call for compromise. These men are confused and
      Message 2 of 12 , May 21, 2006
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        "He said I need to go to church somewhere.!!!!!"
         
         
        "its better to not belong to any church, than one that would call for compromise."
         
         
        "These men are confused and shouldn't hold positions they hold for they
        are dangerous."
         
         
        Is there absolutely no "compromise" permitted for attending the public worship of God?  None whatsoever?
         
        If there is any "compromise" at all permitted for attending the public worship of God, how is that determined?  (admittedly I think this premise is denied in this forum)
         
        Jasper

        Larry Bump <lbump@...> wrote:
        Would you mind telling me who this was, off list?
        lbump@...

        RPCNA elder.
        Frankly, I disagree with him, and would know who gave this advice.

        Larry
        Elder, RPCNA


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "CRYSTAL SATHER" <crystal.sather@...>
        To: <covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 4:11 PM
        Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] church


        I am amazed at some "reformed" ministers.  I was talking to one in the RPCNA
        here in our area and he told me to find a church that is as close to what I
        believe as I can find. Give it 1 month before deciding if I want to belong
        there.  He gave me some "good" ones that sing hymns, even though he himself
        is an exclusive psalmist.  I said if you won't go there to worship, why
        would I go if I am an exclusive psalmist?  He said I need to go to church
        somewhere.!!!!! Get that!!!??


        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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      • Deejay
        Well I wasn t intending to speak for others here. Its why I pre-cursed with for me at least but for me that would be in attending public worship, not being
        Message 3 of 12 , May 21, 2006
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          Well I wasn't intending to speak for others here.  Its why I pre-cursed with "for me at least"  but for me that would be in attending public worship, not being called to take part in what I consider sinful practices.  (in this case offering polluted sacrifices)  And how can one attend, even if one doesn't take part, without seeing to condone what you yourself couldn't offer to God in good cosncience and would consider sinful to do so?

          ~Deejay

          Jasper wrote:

           
           
          "its better to not belong to any church, than one that would call for compromise."
           
           

        • Deejay
          I could be wrong here, but it also seems to me, that for anyone to think one needs to attend public worship at any cost, is a bit along the lines of folks
          Message 4 of 12 , May 21, 2006
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            I could be wrong here, but it also seems to me, that  for anyone to think one needs to attend public worship at any cost, is a bit along the lines of folks thinking going to church makes you a "real Christian" and we all know that isn't so.  But there are a lot of Sunday Christians, who go to church believing it to be so. 

            I'm not meaning you Jasper, just what was said in the original post about "needing to go to church"

            ~Deejay

            Jasper wrote:
            "He said I need to go to church somewhere.!!!!!"
             
             
            "its better to not belong to any church, than one that would call for compromise."
             
             
            "These men are confused and shouldn't hold positions they hold for they
            are dangerous."
             
             
            Is there absolutely no "compromise" permitted for attending the public worship of God?  None whatsoever?
             
            If there is any "compromise" at all permitted for attending the public worship of God, how is that determined?  (admittedly I think this premise is denied in this forum)
             
            Jasper

            L

          • James
            James replies: I agree. That is way too strict to demand that a Christian attend church no matter what. What if a person is ill, or they live in a place
            Message 5 of 12 , May 21, 2006
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              James replies:

              I agree. That is way too strict to demand that a Christian attend
              church no matter what. What if a person is ill, or they live in a
              place where there are no real Christian churches, only pretend ones?


              In Christ,

              James
            • Nikolai
              ... Jasper, you re quite right in pointing out the difficulty, that is, if there could be a compromise, how do we determine what would qualify one practice to
              Message 6 of 12 , May 21, 2006
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                Jasper wrote:

                > Is there absolutely no "compromise" permitted for attending the public
                > worship of God? None whatsoever?
                >
                > If there is any "compromise" at all permitted for attending the public
                > worship of God, how is that determined? (admittedly I think this
                > premise is denied in this forum)


                Jasper,
                you're quite right in pointing out the difficulty, that is, if there
                could be a compromise, how do we determine what would qualify one
                practice to be a compromise as opposed to another practice (or
                non-practice for that matter) which is non-negotiable. Therefore, it
                seems to me, the only two options for a believer are:

                1. no compromises
                2. I myself will determine what can be compromised in worship practice

                The 1st option is obviously the toughest to practice and leaves a lot of
                reformed folk without a church to go to.

                Nikolai
              • Jasper
                Thank you Deejay. As you say, thinking that attendance at public worship makes one a Christian is extreme and ridden with error. Likewise, the idea that the
                Message 7 of 12 , May 22, 2006
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                  Thank you Deejay.  As you say, thinking that attendance at public worship makes one a Christian is extreme and ridden with error.  Likewise, the idea that the assembly for public worship must be free of all error (or some say "sin") and utterly without compromise in order for it to be proper for a believer to attend, is also flawed.  One of my concerns is that those who proclaim this idea may be inconsistent and hypocritical on that matter.  Those who do attend public worship are doing so within a group of somewhat varying beliefs, understandings, practices, depths of faith, etc.; all being imperfect in their public worship.  Those who do not attend public worship may be more consistent but still just as wrong on the point - and if they conduct "family worship" in lieu of public worship, they are faced with the same issues as those at public worship described above - worshipping among imperfect worship.  I think that if we are honest we will agree that at least some level of what was termed "compromise" is not only permitted, but in fact necessary, and assumed by the scriptures wherein we are admonished to assemble together for worship.  Imperfect Christians are to assemble together for the public worship of God, knowing that their worship of God is imperfect.
                   
                  Men who place a high importance on attending the public worship of God are not necessarily "dangerous".
                   
                  Jasper


                  Deejay <group.only@...> wrote:
                  I could be wrong here, but it also seems to me, that  for anyone to think one needs to attend public worship at any cost, is a bit along the lines of folks thinking going to church makes you a "real Christian" and we all know that isn't so.  But there are a lot of Sunday Christians, who go to church believing it to be so. 

                  I'm not meaning you Jasper, just what was said in the original post about "needing to go to church"

                  ~Deejay

                  Jasper wrote:
                  "He said I need to go to church somewhere.!!!!!"
                   
                   
                  "its better to not belong to any church, than one that would call for compromise."
                   
                   
                  "These men are confused and shouldn't hold positions they hold for they are dangerous."
                   
                   
                  Is there absolutely no "compromise" permitted for attending the public worship of God?  None whatsoever?
                   
                  If there is any "compromise" at all permitted for attending the public worship of God, how is that determined?  (admittedly I think this premise is denied in this forum)
                   
                  Jasper



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                • friendly_little_soul
                  ... wrote: I understand what you re saying Jasper, and don t disagree per se. From personal experience, I can only say that attending public
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 22, 2006
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                    --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Jasper
                    <jasperh98@...> wrote:

                    I understand what you're saying Jasper, and don't disagree per se.
                    From personal experience, I can only say that attending public worship
                    and deliberately being part of of an act of impure worship, has never
                    caused me so much conflict when actually in a worship service. Its
                    not just about not wanting to attend, to take part in a knowingly act
                    that I consider sinful in worship, it also makes for great discomfort,
                    even shame before God. No one should be put in the position of going
                    to worship God, and being forced into the middle of a warzone
                    internally, and that's a little how it felt.


                    ~Deejay
                    >
                    > Thank you Deejay. As you say, thinking that attendance at public
                    worship makes one a Christian is extreme and ridden with error.
                    Likewise, the idea that the assembly for public worship must be free
                    of all error (or some say "sin") and utterly without compromise in
                    order for it to be proper for a believer to attend, is also flawed.
                    One of my concerns is that those who proclaim this idea may be
                    inconsistent and hypocritical on that matter. Those who do attend
                    public worship are doing so within a group of somewhat varying
                    beliefs, understandings, practices, depths of faith, etc.; all being
                    imperfect in their public worship. Those who do not attend public
                    worship may be more consistent but still just as wrong on the point -
                    and if they conduct "family worship" in lieu of public worship, they
                    are faced with the same issues as those at public worship described
                    above - worshipping among imperfect worship. I think that if we are
                    honest we will agree that at least some level
                    > of what was termed "compromise" is not only permitted, but in fact
                    necessary, and assumed by the scriptures wherein we are admonished to
                    assemble together for worship. Imperfect Christians are to assemble
                    together for the public worship of God, knowing that their worship of
                    God is imperfect.
                    >
                    > Men who place a high importance on attending the public worship of
                    God are not necessarily "dangerous".
                    >
                    > Jasper
                    >
                    >
                    > Deejay <group.only@...> wrote:
                    > I could be wrong here, but it also seems to me, that for anyone
                    to think one needs to attend public worship at any cost, is a bit
                    along the lines of folks thinking going to church makes you a "real
                    Christian" and we all know that isn't so. But there are a lot of
                    Sunday Christians, who go to church believing it to be so.
                    >
                    > I'm not meaning you Jasper, just what was said in the original post
                    about "needing to go to church"
                    >
                    > ~Deejay
                    >
                    > Jasper wrote: "He said I need to go to church somewhere.!!!!!"
                    >
                    >
                    > "its better to not belong to any church, than one that would call
                    for compromise."
                    >
                    >
                    > "These men are confused and shouldn't hold positions they hold for
                    they are dangerous."
                    >
                    >
                    > Is there absolutely no "compromise" permitted for attending the
                    public worship of God? None whatsoever?
                    >
                    >
                    > If there is any "compromise" at all permitted for attending the
                    public worship of God, how is that determined? (admittedly I think
                    this premise is denied in this forum)
                    >
                    > Jasper
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                  • Nikolai
                    ... Just to clarify, my suggestion about some men being dangerous was in reference to those who are confused and yet hold a teaching office in the church.
                    Message 9 of 12 , May 22, 2006
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                      Jasper wrote:

                      > Men who place a high importance on attending the public worship of God
                      > are not necessarily "dangerous".

                      Just to clarify, my suggestion about some men being dangerous was in
                      reference to those who are confused and yet hold a teaching office in
                      the church.

                      Nikolai
                    • friendly_little_soul
                      I was using this quote somewhere else, and it seemed to speak to what you were speaking of, so thought to post it here: Though you cannot perform duty without
                      Message 10 of 12 , May 26, 2006
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                        I was using this quote somewhere else, and it seemed to speak to what you were speaking of, so thought to post it here:

                         
                        "Though you cannot perform duty without infirmity, yet you do perform duty without known hypocrisy.  Though you offend in the manner of performance, yet you would not be false in the end principle of doing.  The sincerity of your heart herein maybe your comfort, and from such, though the spirit may withdraw for a while yet it will not be long before He returns again."  T Christopher Love from Sermon 6 on the Flesh and the Spirit.


                        Quote_woman aka Deejay


                        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Jasper <jasperh98@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Thank you Deejay. As you say, thinking that attendance at public worship makes one a Christian is extreme and ridden with error. Likewise, the idea that the assembly for public worship must be free of all error (or some say "sin") and utterly without compromise in order for it to be proper for a believer to attend, is also flawed. One of my concerns is that those who proclaim this idea may be inconsistent and hypocritical on that matter. Those who do attend public worship are doing so within a group of somewhat varying beliefs, understandings, practices, depths of faith, etc.; all being imperfect in their public worship. Those who do not attend public worship may be more consistent but still just as wrong on the point - and if they conduct "family worship" in lieu of public worship, they are faced with the same issues as those at public worship described above - worshipping among imperfect worship. I think that if we are honest we will agree that at least some level
                        > of what was termed "compromise" is not only permitted, but in fact necessary, and assumed by the scriptures wherein we are admonished to assemble together for worship. Imperfect Christians are to assemble together for the public worship of God, knowing that their worship of God is imperfect.
                        >

                      • Edgar A. Ibarra Jr.
                        Thank you so much for sharing this quote by Covenanter minister Christopher Love. This so describes the faithful Covenanters of yesteryear and of today, in the
                        Message 11 of 12 , May 31, 2006
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                          Thank you so much for sharing this quote by Covenanter minister Christopher Love.

                          This so describes the faithful Covenanters of yesteryear and of today, in the performance of duty and such!

                          Yours in Christ,

                          Edgar Ibarra

                          www.PresbiterianoReformado.org

                          www.AlbanyCRPC.org


                          --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "friendly_little_soul" <group.only@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I was using this quote somewhere else, and it seemed to speak to what
                          > you were speaking of, so thought to post it here:
                          >
                          > "Though you cannot perform duty without infirmity, yet you do perform
                          > duty without known hypocrisy. Though you offend in the manner of
                          > performance, yet you would not be false in the end principle of doing.
                          > The sincerity of your heart herein maybe your comfort, and from such,
                          > though the spirit may withdraw for a while yet it will not be long
                          > before He returns again." T Christopher Love from Sermon 6 on the Flesh
                          > and the Spirit.
                          >
                          >
                          > Quote_woman aka Deejay
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Jasper jasperh98@
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Thank you Deejay. As you say, thinking that attendance at public
                          > worship makes one a Christian is extreme and ridden with error.
                          > Likewise, the idea that the assembly for public worship must be free of
                          > all error (or some say "sin") and utterly without compromise in order
                          > for it to be proper for a believer to attend, is also flawed. One of my
                          > concerns is that those who proclaim this idea may be inconsistent and
                          > hypocritical on that matter. Those who do attend public worship are
                          > doing so within a group of somewhat varying beliefs, understandings,
                          > practices, depths of faith, etc.; all being imperfect in their public
                          > worship. Those who do not attend public worship may be more consistent
                          > but still just as wrong on the point - and if they conduct "family
                          > worship" in lieu of public worship, they are faced with the same issues
                          > as those at public worship described above - worshipping among imperfect
                          > worship. I think that if we are honest we will agree that at least some
                          > level
                          > > of what was termed "compromise" is not only permitted, but in fact
                          > necessary, and assumed by the scriptures wherein we are admonished to
                          > assemble together for worship. Imperfect Christians are to assemble
                          > together for the public worship of God, knowing that their worship of
                          > God is imperfect.
                          > >
                          >

                        • deejay@spectacle-unto-god.crazycalvinist
                          I m glad it was profitable. And I m also pleased to know of another admirer of Christopher Love, one of my very favourite Puritan writers, but thus far,
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jun 1, 2006
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                            I'm glad it was profitable.  And I'm also pleased to know of another admirer of  Christopher Love, one of my very favourite Puritan writers, but thus far, haven't know anyone else besides Jerry to esteem him so highly too.


                            ~Deejay

                            Edgar A. Ibarra Jr. wrote:

                            Thank you so much for sharing this quote by Covenanter minister Christopher Love.

                            This so describes the faithful Covenanters of yesteryear and of today, in the performance of duty and such!

                            Yours in Christ,

                            Edgar Ibarra

                            www.PresbiterianoReformado.org

                            www.AlbanyCRPC.org


                            -


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