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[Covenanted Reformation] Re: Covenanter Groups

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  • Edgar A. Ibarra Jr.
    Ok, so you know when you are trying to remember something really hard, and it is on the tip of your tongue but JUST can t remember!!! URGH!!! So you walk away
    Message 1 of 33 , Jan 11, 2006
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      Ok, so you know when you are trying to remember something really hard, and it is on the tip of your tongue but JUST can't remember!!! URGH!!!

      So you walk away from the situation and are busy doing something else and BONG!!!! you rememeber!!! 

      Ok, that just happened to me.

      It was Puritan Evangelical Church of America, founded and pastored by Rev. Wallace Bell.  A congregation formerly of the OPC.  Their main doctrinal distinctives were/are Exclusive Psalmody w/o instruments AND they denied the doctrine of the Free Offer of the Gospel and denied Common grace.  What some call Hyper-Calvinists?  They also axed out all holy-days.  Being new to FOG and common grace, I was ignorant of what all that entailed  --back then, not now.  They also mandated that their leadership and aspiring leaders do open air "preaching" at the beach and be fire and brimstone.  One thing, if I recall, was they were not convinced of Head-Coverings, and I believe this was one thing that kept them from joining Richard Bacon's newly formed denomination.

      When DiLella arrived, I remember Richard Bacon telling me that he would be the end of that little church.  When DiLella did leave and I found this out, I sent a letter (when I was in San Francisco, CA) to the session of Puritan Evangelical Church asking them to remove me from their tape ministry mailing list and proceeded to advise them that they were unjustly persecuting a Covenanter minster (as I recognized him) and that they were joining the ranks of those persecuting parties that did the same in times past against faithful Covenanted ministers.

        When I did eventually join the PRCE (pre-RPNA), I heard that DiLella was still in Southern California and was contacting fellow brethren that were adherents of the PRCE.   I then arranged an e-mail conversation between Pastor Greg Price and Pastor Fred DiLella to try and work out their differences.  The brethren of the Southern California and I were cc'ed into the e-mail conversations.  As I recall, (my record of the e-mails are on an old computer which I don't know if it still works), Rev. DiLella would not readily engage Pastor Price and address the issues being raised by Pastor Price and Rev. DiLella did not desire to continue the conversations soon after.

      Hope that helps, maybe more than you all wanted to know??

      Regards,


      Edgar Ibarra

       

    • forisraelssake
      Guys, I see better now what Christopher s point was all along. It is not that we have (like in Bacon s church) a practice of differing requirements for the
      Message 33 of 33 , Jan 21, 2006
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        Guys,

        I see better now what Christopher's point was all along. It is not
        that we have (like in Bacon's church) a practice of differing
        requirements for the Lord's supper depending on whether you are a
        member, elder, or non-member, but that we have a distinction between a
        member of our church and a member who has sustained their examination
        to come to the Lord's supper. Whether we have erred in this respect or
        not, I am not certain.

        But I do know that if you allow children of members to be considered
        members of our church and under the love, fellowship, oversight, and
        discipline of the church, and able to be baptized, and receive family
        visits by the elders, all while being in a state of ignorance and not
        able to sustain their examination to come to the Lord's table...

        then it seems that as long as a person is like a child in the faith,
        even though in secular respects an adult, they can be members of a
        church but not ready to come to the Lord's table and partake on the
        sacrament. An obedient child lives a blameless life, and is working
        towards attaining the knowledge and understanding needing to come
        worthily to the Lord's supper; the seeking of that state is a moral
        duty of all Christians.

        "I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it."
        1 Corinthians 3:2

        "For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to
        teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need
        milk, not solid food, for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in
        the word of righteousness, since he is a child." Hebrews 5:12-13

        Christ's elders have to minister to all sorts of people, the weaker
        and the stronger, and the children on the one hand and the men in the
        faith on the other. Maybe this won't satisfy you, especially if you
        think historical testimony of the Church of Scotland in her faithful
        days is against us. And maybe the RPNA has erred and needs to reform.
        But I don't totally see that.

        Can a recent adult convert out of heathenism be baptized and under the
        authority of the elders without being a member of the church? It
        doesn't make much sense to me. But surely we don't withhold baptism
        or formal elder oversight until the person is brought up to speed on
        the Reformation from Popery, the Westminster Standards, the nature and
        practice of covenanting, and why our church keeps itself separate from
        all the denominations? It seems pretty clear to me that the church
        takes these people in as like unto children and trains them up in the
        way they should go.

        Hope this helps.

        Chris
        Edmonton, AB
        RPNA

        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, gmw
        <raging.calvinist@v...> wrote:
        >
        > Christopher,
        >
        > I'm not in the RPNA, and as I mentioned in previous posts, I don't
        quite
        > understand their position on the two-tiered membership (I've been
        > pointed towards materials to read, which I'll get to when I have
        time).
        > I do know that in the past, RP's have given out tokens to those who
        have
        > been examined and found worthy of partaking. This assumes that some
        > members may not be admitted to the Lord's Table for reasons touched on
        > in the Catechism questions provided. But outside of that, I guess I
        > have the same question that you have. What is this initial membership
        > that is not communicant membership? Is it like being a Catechumen in
        > the early church? I'm still trying to figue this all out myself.
        >
        > gmw.
        >
        > trygvesson@a... wrote:
        >
        > > *In a message dated 1/21/2006 9:12:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
        > > raging.calvinist@v... writes:*
        > > "This is why some Churches "fence" the Table, and refrain from
        serving
        > > it to those who are found to be ignorant, scandalous,
        impenitentand/or
        > > hypocrites. To do so, requires some examination.
        > >
        > > gmw."
        > >
        > >
        > > *Gerry,*
        > >
        > > *Perhaps you will be able to answer this. Now, I agree with fencing
        > > the table and session controlled communion, and in an age when the
        > > standards of the church are more distinct from other denominations
        and
        > > we do not have similar or duplicate denominations as we do now [take
        > > the RPCNA, RPCS, and the RPCI for example] I agree with close
        communion. *
        > > **
        > > *What I do not understand is, if I am reading recent posts rightly,
        > > how can an adult be interviewed and admitted to membership in the
        RPNA
        > > but that same adult membership not also be communicant membership?*
        > > **
        > > *I was under the impression that the standards for adult admission to
        > > the membership of the church were the same as those for communion.*
        > > **
        > > *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        > > Christopher Coombes
        > > Lynchburg Reformed Presbyterian Fellowship,
        > > Lynchburg, VA
        > > Member, Triangle RPC
        > > RPCNA**
        > >
        > > _
        > > / )
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        > > ) ( ) )
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        > > ) `-------/ /
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        > > ,'\ , ,'
        > > `-'\ ,---\ | \
        > > _) ) `. \ /
        > > (__/ ) )
        > > (_/*
        > >
        > >
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