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Re: Covenanter Groups

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  • Whit
    I ve a copy of the RPCNA Constitution, which has the WCF and the RPCNA Testimony. Their Testimony is their qualification of the WCF, and some of it denies
    Message 1 of 33 , Jan 10, 2006
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      I've a copy of the RPCNA Constitution, which has the WCF and the
      RPCNA Testimony. Their Testimony is their qualification of the WCF,
      and some of it denies parts of the WCF sometimes without explanation
      (such as the chapter on the Magistrate).

      Whit

      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Edgar A. Ibarra
      Jr." <puritanpresbyterian@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Susan and Jerry,
      >
      > Thank you so very much for clearing this up. Jerry as you
      know,
      > I have tried to tip toe around specifics last year and this time
      > around just mentioned two. As you said, it is best to keep this
      in-
      > house until things are worked out, that way our discussions can be
      > worked out without an environment of mockery or jeering, which
      does
      > not help anything. I too pray that the two remaining Covenanter
      > groups in the United States/Canada will one day be united on Truth
      > and love.
      >
      > As for the RPNA as it stands today we were formed as the RPNA in
      > 2000 and due to the issue surrounding birth control, the
      Presbytery
      > dissolved as one of the ministers voluntarily left the other 3
      > elders that remain in our "General Meeting", a term used before,
      > after the atrocious Revolution Settlement.
      >
      > I and I believe Jerry is of the same mind (?) will not air our
      > problems/differences here, that would be UNWISE and unproductive,
      so
      > I respectful will not answer, personally if any one else does I
      hope
      > they do so with caution and wisdom, questions pertaining to this.
      >
      > Respectful in Christ,
      >
      > Edgar Ibarra
      > RPNA in Albany, NY
      > www.ReformedPresbytery.org
      > www.TrueCovenanter.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "susanandcrew"
      > <gpyp@p...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Oh, see? I should have just stayed quiet.
      > >
      > > Yeah, what Jerry said...
      > >
      > > Susan
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "gmw"
      > > <raging.calvinist@v...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Not my favorite subject, but....
      > > >
      > > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "nodelink7"
      > > > <gjgriff@y...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > OK, Sean. I think you're asking about what's the difference
      > > among the
      > > > > people behind:
      > > > >
      > > > > -covenanter.org
      > > >
      > > > That would be ~person~... the PERSON behind covenanter.org.
      > > >
      > > > 1 The wicked man's transgression
      > > > within my heart thus says,
      > > > Undoubtedly the fear of God
      > > > is not before his eyes.
      > > >
      > > > 2 Because himself he flattereth
      > > > in his own blinded eye,
      > > > Until the hatefulness be found
      > > > of his iniquity.
      > > >
      > > > 3 Words from his mouth proceeding are,
      > > > fraud and iniquity:
      > > > He to be wise, and to do good,
      > > > hath left off utterly.
      > > >
      > > > 4 He mischief, lying on his bed,
      > > > most cunningly doth plot:
      > > > He sets himself in ways not good,
      > > > ill he abhorreth not.
      > > > (Psalm 36)
      > > >
      > > > Many of us scorned by the man, but still holding to the cause,
      > are
      > > > associated with:
      > > >
      > > > > -truecoveanter.com
      > > >
      > > > Essentially the same bunch of people, mostly from
      Pennsylvania.
      > We
      > > > are in many things, including the six terms of communion, in
      > > agreement
      > > > with
      > > >
      > > > > -reformedpresbytery.org
      > > >
      > > > though there are some issues that have not as of yet been
      worked
      > > out,
      > > > things I don't like to discuss in public. I remember us
      trying
      > to
      > > do
      > > > so once, much to the amusement of mockers and jeerers
      everywhere!
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > > 2. What are the reasons for these "Covenanter" groups
      > > maintaining a
      > > > > > distinct and separate existence from each other?
      > > >
      > > > A quick answer is first, that the groups in question arose
      > > separately
      > > > one from another, in two different countries, and second, that
      > > there
      > > > are some issues of concern that have as of yet not been worked
      > out.
      > > >
      > > > > > 3. How do these distinct communions give support to the
      > claims
      > > > > of "Covenanters," when groups agreeing with each other on
      the
      > > binding
      > > > > obligation of the Solemn League and Covenant (a document
      > claimed
      > > to be
      > > > > the most perfect vehicle of visible church unity) cannot
      > maintain
      > > > > visible church unity with each other on that basis?
      > > >
      > > > Who specifically made that claim, btw? Just wondering.
      > > >
      > > > Division in the Church of Jesus Christ is a terrible thing, to
      be
      > > > lamented. Indeed, one might ask how the visible Church as a
      > whole
      > > > gives support to the claims of Scripture, when so many groups,
      > > > agreeing with each other on the binding nature of Scriptural
      > > teaching,
      > > > cannot maintain visible unity with each other on that basis.
      > > >
      > > > As someone once sang, "There's trouble in the kingdom, send a
      > > message
      > > > to the King!"
      > > >
      > > > My God mend the breaches and grant unity to His Church!
      > > >
      > > > gmw.
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • forisraelssake
      Guys, I see better now what Christopher s point was all along. It is not that we have (like in Bacon s church) a practice of differing requirements for the
      Message 33 of 33 , Jan 21, 2006
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        Guys,

        I see better now what Christopher's point was all along. It is not
        that we have (like in Bacon's church) a practice of differing
        requirements for the Lord's supper depending on whether you are a
        member, elder, or non-member, but that we have a distinction between a
        member of our church and a member who has sustained their examination
        to come to the Lord's supper. Whether we have erred in this respect or
        not, I am not certain.

        But I do know that if you allow children of members to be considered
        members of our church and under the love, fellowship, oversight, and
        discipline of the church, and able to be baptized, and receive family
        visits by the elders, all while being in a state of ignorance and not
        able to sustain their examination to come to the Lord's table...

        then it seems that as long as a person is like a child in the faith,
        even though in secular respects an adult, they can be members of a
        church but not ready to come to the Lord's table and partake on the
        sacrament. An obedient child lives a blameless life, and is working
        towards attaining the knowledge and understanding needing to come
        worthily to the Lord's supper; the seeking of that state is a moral
        duty of all Christians.

        "I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it."
        1 Corinthians 3:2

        "For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to
        teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need
        milk, not solid food, for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in
        the word of righteousness, since he is a child." Hebrews 5:12-13

        Christ's elders have to minister to all sorts of people, the weaker
        and the stronger, and the children on the one hand and the men in the
        faith on the other. Maybe this won't satisfy you, especially if you
        think historical testimony of the Church of Scotland in her faithful
        days is against us. And maybe the RPNA has erred and needs to reform.
        But I don't totally see that.

        Can a recent adult convert out of heathenism be baptized and under the
        authority of the elders without being a member of the church? It
        doesn't make much sense to me. But surely we don't withhold baptism
        or formal elder oversight until the person is brought up to speed on
        the Reformation from Popery, the Westminster Standards, the nature and
        practice of covenanting, and why our church keeps itself separate from
        all the denominations? It seems pretty clear to me that the church
        takes these people in as like unto children and trains them up in the
        way they should go.

        Hope this helps.

        Chris
        Edmonton, AB
        RPNA

        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, gmw
        <raging.calvinist@v...> wrote:
        >
        > Christopher,
        >
        > I'm not in the RPNA, and as I mentioned in previous posts, I don't
        quite
        > understand their position on the two-tiered membership (I've been
        > pointed towards materials to read, which I'll get to when I have
        time).
        > I do know that in the past, RP's have given out tokens to those who
        have
        > been examined and found worthy of partaking. This assumes that some
        > members may not be admitted to the Lord's Table for reasons touched on
        > in the Catechism questions provided. But outside of that, I guess I
        > have the same question that you have. What is this initial membership
        > that is not communicant membership? Is it like being a Catechumen in
        > the early church? I'm still trying to figue this all out myself.
        >
        > gmw.
        >
        > trygvesson@a... wrote:
        >
        > > *In a message dated 1/21/2006 9:12:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
        > > raging.calvinist@v... writes:*
        > > "This is why some Churches "fence" the Table, and refrain from
        serving
        > > it to those who are found to be ignorant, scandalous,
        impenitentand/or
        > > hypocrites. To do so, requires some examination.
        > >
        > > gmw."
        > >
        > >
        > > *Gerry,*
        > >
        > > *Perhaps you will be able to answer this. Now, I agree with fencing
        > > the table and session controlled communion, and in an age when the
        > > standards of the church are more distinct from other denominations
        and
        > > we do not have similar or duplicate denominations as we do now [take
        > > the RPCNA, RPCS, and the RPCI for example] I agree with close
        communion. *
        > > **
        > > *What I do not understand is, if I am reading recent posts rightly,
        > > how can an adult be interviewed and admitted to membership in the
        RPNA
        > > but that same adult membership not also be communicant membership?*
        > > **
        > > *I was under the impression that the standards for adult admission to
        > > the membership of the church were the same as those for communion.*
        > > **
        > > *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        > > Christopher Coombes
        > > Lynchburg Reformed Presbyterian Fellowship,
        > > Lynchburg, VA
        > > Member, Triangle RPC
        > > RPCNA**
        > >
        > > _
        > > / )
        > > (\__/) ( (
        > > ) ( ) )
        > > ={ }= / /
        > > ) `-------/ /
        > > ( /
        > > \ |
        > > ,'\ , ,'
        > > `-'\ ,---\ | \
        > > _) ) `. \ /
        > > (__/ ) )
        > > (_/*
        > >
        > >
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