Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

[Covenanted Reformation] Re: Calvin's Preface to the Psalter (EP)

Expand Messages
  • Nikolai
    ... Psalms, the qualification for being able to write songs meant for worship was one had to be a prophet. or prophetess. I don t think Charles Wesley
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 3, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      <crazy_calvinist@y...> wrote:


      >>Well as far as I can see, whether other songs from Scripture or the
      Psalms, the qualification for being able to write songs meant for
      worship was one had to be a prophet. or prophetess. I don't think
      Charles Wesley qualifies.<<


      Deejay,
      those wishing to sing Wesley's song deny there's such a requirement
      and I agree with them, there's no such requirement found in Scripture.
      Our position, IMO, rests entirely on the Regulative Principle (WCF
      ch.XXI). Those who say they accept ch.XXI of the Confession as truly
      reflecting scriptural view of worship and at the same engage in
      un-scriptural worship practice such as hymn signing are either
      confused or lying.

      Nikolai
      EPC od Australia, Brisbane
    • gmw
      I agree about the Regulative Principle of Worship, which of course is of great importance in the discussion of Exclusive Psalmody. However, I must agree with
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 3, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        I agree about the Regulative Principle of Worship, which of course is
        of great importance in the discussion of Exclusive Psalmody. However,
        I must agree with Deejay about the significance that the "psalm,
        hymns, and spiritual song" composers spoken of in Scripture are
        specifically said to be prophets or prophetesses.

        From Brian Schwertley's work on Psalmody:

        "A careful examination of the Scripture passages which discuss the
        songs used in worship and how worship songs were composed reveals that
        God only authorizes and accepts divinely inspired songs for the praise
        of Himself. 'If when the Bible speaks of the source of worship song,
        it portrays the text as one produced by divine inspiration, then
        inspiration is a biblical norm for this ordinance as well.'

        "There are so many examples in the Bible which show the connection
        between writing songs of praise for the church and prophetic
        inspiration that it is astounding that this point has been largely
        ignored by those who claim to hold to the regulative principle. There
        is the example of the prophetess Miriam who, by divine inspiration,
        composed a song to celebrate God’s deliverance of Israel from Egypt
        (Ex. 15:20-21). We also have the inspired song of Deborah the
        prophetess (Jdg. 5). There are the Spirit-inspired songs of the
        prophet Isaiah (e.g. 5:1, 26:1 ff., etc.) as well as the divinely
        inspired song of Mary (Lk. 1:46 ff.). If 1 Corinthians 14:26 refers to
        Christians composing songs for public worship, these songs were 'as is
        universally admitted, charismatic songs and therefore products of the
        immediate inspiration of the Holy Spirit.' (The question of whether
        the new covenant church should sing divinely inspired songs outside of
        the book of Psalms is dealt with below.)

        "The Old Testament saints whom God used to write the Psalter wrote by
        the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Note once again that prophetic
        inspiration and the writing of songs of praise go hand in hand. King
        David, whom the Bible calls a prophet (2 Chr. 29:25-30), wrote his
        songs by a special gift of the Holy Spirit (2 Sam. 23:1, 2; Ac. 1:16).
        The New Testament repeatedly refers to David as a prophet when it
        quotes his songs (cf. Mt. 22:43-44; Mk. 12:36; Ac. 1:16-17; 2:29-31;
        4:24-25). The worship of the temple musicians and singers is referred
        to as prophecy in Scripture (1 Chr. 25:1-7). This designation, when
        applied to song content, obviously means that what they sang was the
        product of divine inspiration. Thus, the temple musicians and singers
        who were involved in writing songs for worship did so under the
        special operation of the Spirit. Heman (who was appointed by David as
        a worship leader of the sanctuary) is called a 'seer' (1 Chr. 25:5) in
        Scripture; a term synonymous with the word 'prophet.' Bushell writes,
        'Prophetic titles and roles are consistently attributed to the chief
        temple musicians and singers. Asaph, for example, one of David’s
        principle musicians (1 Chr. 6:39; 15:17; 16:5 ff.; 2 Chr. 5:12),
        appointed by him over the service of song and by Solomon in the Temple
        service, is also called a ‘seer’ and placed alongside David as far as
        authority in Temple music is concerned (2 Chr. 29:30). Nor ought we to
        miss the significance of the fact that some 12 of the Old Testament
        Psalms (50, 73-83) are attributed to Asaph, thus confirming his role
        as a writer of inspired worship song. Jeduthun, another chief temple
        singer, is also called a "seer" (2 Chr. 35:15; cf. 25:1; and Pss. 39,
        62, and 77 titles).' The writing of worship songs in the Old Testament
        was so intimately connected with prophetic inspiration that 2 Kings
        23:2 and 2 Chronicles 34:30 use the term 'Levite' and 'prophet'
        interchangeably. The worship of Jehovah is so important that nothing
        less than infallible Spirit-inspired lyrics are acceptable for praise
        in the church."

        -- see more on this subject, as well as the footnotes re: the
        quotations, in point 5 of Chapter 2 at
        http://www.reformed.com/pub/psalms.htm

        gmw.

        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Nikolai"
        <psalmos@s...> wrote:

        >
        > Deejay,
        > those wishing to sing Wesley's song deny there's such a requirement
        > and I agree with them, there's no such requirement found in Scripture.
        > Our position, IMO, rests entirely on the Regulative Principle (WCF
        > ch.XXI). Those who say they accept ch.XXI of the Confession as truly
        > reflecting scriptural view of worship and at the same engage in
        > un-scriptural worship practice such as hymn signing are either
        > confused or lying.
        >
        > Nikolai
        > EPC od Australia, Brisbane
        >
      • Nikolai
        ... All I can gather from Mr. Schwertley s quote is that the songs recorded in scripture are inspired. Nobody disputes that or at least no Bible believing
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 4, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          gmw wrote:

          >>From Brian Schwertley's work on Psalmody:
          >
          > "A careful examination of the Scripture passages which discuss the
          > songs used in worship and how worship songs were composed reveals that
          > God only authorizes and accepts divinely inspired songs for the praise
          > of Himself.


          All I can gather from Mr. Schwertley's quote is that the songs recorded
          in scripture are inspired. Nobody disputes that or at least no Bible
          believing Christian does. The contention is not about whether or not the
          songs in the Bible are inspired, the contention is about can we sing
          uninspired songs in worship. I simply think insisting that Biblical song
          writers were inspired prophets will not impress someone wishing to sing
          hymns in worship. After all, we do listen to uninspired scripture
          exposition and prayer every Lord's day. Analogically, there seems to be
          nothing wrong with singing uninspired songs. The only way, in my
          opinion, to actually defeat those wishing to sing uninspired songs is by
          invoking the Regulative Principle, that is, *they* must, not us, to
          produce a scriptural warrant for their practice. This is when the two
          passages from Ephesians and Colossians are brought up but they are of no
          help for them of course.

          Obviously, with those denying the Regulative Principle altogether
          different methods should be used but eventually, the goal is still to
          show that God should not be worshiped according to imaginations of men
          or suggestions of Satan no matter who we're speaking to, Reformed,
          Baptists, Charismatics or whoever.

          Nikolai
          EPC of Australia, Brisbane
        • gmw
          Hi Nikolai, Some quick comments below: ... But the very quote you included in your response here says much more than simply songs recorded in Scripture are
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 4, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Nikolai,

            Some quick comments below:

            Nikolai wrote:

            > gmw wrote:
            >
            > >>From Brian Schwertley's work on Psalmody:
            > >
            > > "A careful examination of the Scripture passages which discuss the
            > > songs used in worship and how worship songs were composed reveals that
            > > God only authorizes and accepts divinely inspired songs for the praise
            > > of Himself.
            >
            >
            > All I can gather from Mr. Schwertley's quote is that the songs recorded
            > in scripture are inspired.


            But the very quote you included in your response here says much more
            than simply "songs recorded in Scripture are inspired." It's saying
            that the songs which God provides and accepts of, to be used in worship,
            are inspired. And so, Scripture only gives warrant for the use of
            inspired songs in worship.

            > Nobody disputes that or at least no Bible
            > believing Christian does.

            No Bible believing Christian disputes what you said, but obviously not
            all Christians believe what Schwertley was actually saying -- that
            Scripture only gives warrant for the use of divinely inspired songs in
            worship.

            > The contention is not about whether or not the
            > songs in the Bible are inspired, the contention is about can we sing
            > uninspired songs in worship.

            Yes, agreed, of course. I've surely not denied this.

            > I simply think insisting that Biblical song
            > writers were inspired prophets will not impress someone wishing to sing
            > hymns in worship.

            Someone wishing to sing hymns in worship (hymns here meaning uninspired
            songs as opposed to the inspired hymns commonly called the Psalms) will
            not likely be impressed with anything we insist! Someone wishing to
            worship God biblically, however, may very well be impressed with the
            nature of the songs used in worship given by inspired prophets and
            prophetesses. Now, no one is "simply" insisting that our worship songs
            must be inspired without also having an eye to the Regulative Principle
            of Worship. What I'm saying is this:

            Given the Regulative Principle of Worship, we must have Scriptural
            warrant for our acts of worship. Scripture gives warrant for the use of
            inspired songs in worship, which songs were delivered by inspired men
            and women. Scripture gives warrant for no other type of song.
            Therefore, we only have warrant from Scripture to sing inspired songs
            delivered by inspired people, in worship.

            How we come to limit those songs to the 150 Psalms, is, of course,
            another (yet related) issue.

            > After all, we do listen to uninspired scripture
            > exposition and prayer every Lord's day.

            Of course, and both uninspired (strictly speaking) preaching and prayer
            have Scriptural warrant.

            > The only way, in my
            > opinion, to actually defeat those wishing to sing uninspired songs is by
            > invoking the Regulative Principle, that is, *they* must, not us, to
            > produce a scriptural warrant for their practice. This is when the two
            > passages from Ephesians and Colossians are brought up but they are of no
            > help for them of course.


            And I agree with this. If you are understanding anything I'm saying to
            disagree with your statement of yours, then either I'm being unclear, or
            you are misunderstanding me, friend.

            The issue is not that God commands us to /sing only divinely inspired
            Psalms/, but that God /only commands us to sing divinely inspired
            Psalms/. Given the Regulative Principle, this is enough to warrant
            Psalmody, and nothing else.

            Good'ay.
            gmw.

            >
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.