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Calvin's Preface to the Psalter (EP)

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  • Whit Roberts
    I used to be EP until a few months ago and that from reading Calvin s Preface to the Genevan Psalter. I don t see how Calvin in that Preface concludes that the
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 1, 2006
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      I used to be EP until a few months ago and that from reading
      Calvin's Preface to the Genevan Psalter. I don't see how Calvin in
      that Preface concludes that the Psalms are to be sung exclusively
      and the distinction between prayer and song. I am open to an
      explanation since if EP is affirmed by Calvin and commanded by
      Scripture, then I am willing to go back to EP.

      Whit
    • gmw
      What if it s commanded by Scripture, but not affirmed by Calvin? Then what? gmw.
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 1, 2006
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        What if it's commanded by Scripture, but not affirmed by Calvin? Then what?

        gmw.

        Whit Roberts wrote:

        > I used to be EP until a few months ago and that from reading
        > Calvin's Preface to the Genevan Psalter. I don't see how Calvin in
        > that Preface concludes that the Psalms are to be sung exclusively
        > and the distinction between prayer and song. I am open to an
        > explanation since if EP is affirmed by Calvin and commanded by
        > Scripture, then I am willing to go back to EP.
        >
        > Whit
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • Edgar A. Ibarra Jr.
        Whit, Do the Scriptures allow for man-made hymns? If so where? Scripture, not man or men, are our ONLY rule for faith and pratice (WSC #2, #3). If the Word of
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 1, 2006
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          Whit,

          Do the Scriptures allow for man-made hymns? If so where?

          Scripture, not man or men, are our ONLY rule for faith and pratice
          (WSC #2, #3). If the Word of God allows it in the public worship of
          God, then we can, if not, then we cannot.


          Sleepless in Albany typing
          away some Westminster Standards
          in Spanish,

          Edgar

          Your Reformed homie





          --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Whit Roberts"
          <covie_pres.1646@v...> wrote:
          >
          > I used to be EP until a few months ago and that from reading
          > Calvin's Preface to the Genevan Psalter. I don't see how Calvin in
          > that Preface concludes that the Psalms are to be sung exclusively
          > and the distinction between prayer and song. I am open to an
          > explanation since if EP is affirmed by Calvin and commanded by
          > Scripture, then I am willing to go back to EP.
          >
          > Whit
          >
        • Whit Roberts
          ... Then what? ... Then I will follow Scripture, which is alone infallible. Whit
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 1, 2006
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            --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, gmw
            <raging.calvinist@v...> wrote:
            >
            > What if it's commanded by Scripture, but not affirmed by Calvin?
            Then what?
            >
            > gmw.
            >

            Then I will follow Scripture, which is alone infallible.

            Whit
          • Whit Roberts
            ... of ... I don t have a Scriptural warrant for you. Your exhortation is wise. I need to consider whom I am following regarding this area, and if I am
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 1, 2006
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              --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Edgar A. Ibarra
              Jr." <puritanpresbyterian@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Whit,
              >
              > Do the Scriptures allow for man-made hymns? If so where?
              >
              > Scripture, not man or men, are our ONLY rule for faith and pratice
              > (WSC #2, #3). If the Word of God allows it in the public worship
              of
              > God, then we can, if not, then we cannot.
              >
              >

              I don't have a Scriptural warrant for you.

              Your exhortation is wise. I need to consider whom I am following
              regarding this area, and if I am following man, then I need to
              repent.

              Whit
            • Don Nelson
              ... I am perplexed. It seems to me that if such hymns were included in the Scriptures, then that would make them inspired. There are many songs in the
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 2, 2006
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                > > Do the Scriptures allow for man-made hymns?

                I am perplexed. It seems to me that if such hymns were
                included in the Scriptures, then that would make them
                inspired. There are many songs in the Scriptures other
                than in the Book of Psalms, and singing is encouraged
                in places where specific content is not recorded.

                Consider an analogous situation: man-man speaking.
                Hours of sermons are included in our public worship. I
                do not understand how a comparatively few minutes of
                singing is such a problem. Logically then, the
                forbidden thing is the singing voice. Would it be OK
                to recite a hymn as long as we do not sing it?

                Don N



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              • Whit Roberts
                ... What of the other inspired hymns in Scripture such as Mary s canticle and the inspired songs of Israel during the time preceding the Psalms? Whit
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 2, 2006
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                  --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Don Nelson
                  <donstudybible@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > > > Do the Scriptures allow for man-made hymns?
                  >
                  > I am perplexed. It seems to me that if such hymns were
                  > included in the Scriptures, then that would make them
                  > inspired. There are many songs in the Scriptures other
                  > than in the Book of Psalms, and singing is encouraged
                  > in places where specific content is not recorded.
                  >
                  > Consider an analogous situation: man-man speaking.
                  > Hours of sermons are included in our public worship. I
                  > do not understand how a comparatively few minutes of
                  > singing is such a problem. Logically then, the
                  > forbidden thing is the singing voice. Would it be OK
                  > to recite a hymn as long as we do not sing it?
                  >
                  > Don N
                  >

                  What of the other inspired hymns in Scripture such as Mary's
                  canticle and the inspired songs of Israel during the time preceding
                  the Psalms?

                  Whit
                • Nikolai
                  ... Whit, attempting to argue for EP position by showing that it is commanded by Scripture will always end in a failure. There s simply no such command in
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 2, 2006
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                    Whit Roberts wrote:
                    > I am open to an
                    > explanation since if EP is affirmed by Calvin and commanded by
                    > Scripture, then I am willing to go back to EP.

                    Whit,
                    attempting to argue for EP position by showing that it is commanded by
                    Scripture will always end in a failure. There's simply no such command
                    in Scripture. This, however, does not mean we are left in the dark as to
                    what do we sing in worship. For example, one can easily show that psalms
                    were used in worship and therefore we use them in worship too. The
                    burden is then entirely on those wishing to sing something else to show
                    on what basis, scripturally speaking, are we to accept their innovation.
                    If they wish to add un-inspired hymns to worship singing, let them
                    provide a scriptural warrant for it, else all such innovations are
                    nothing but will-worship, a worship driven by imaginations of men rather
                    than God's will.

                    Nikolai
                    EPC of Australia, Brisbane
                  • Nikolai
                    ... Don, to sing anything but the Psalms, you would need to show that what you are referring to as songs (in Scripture) was used in worship in the same way you
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 2, 2006
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                      Don Nelson wrote:

                      > I am perplexed. It seems to me that if such hymns were
                      > included in the Scriptures, then that would make them
                      > inspired. There are many songs in the Scriptures other
                      > than in the Book of Psalms, and singing is encouraged
                      > in places where specific content is not recorded.


                      Don,
                      to sing anything but the Psalms, you would need to show that what you
                      are referring to as songs (in Scripture) was used in worship in the same
                      way you intend to use these songs in worship. Similarly, if you intend
                      to use un-inspired poetry in worship for singing, the burden once again
                      is entirely on you to provide a scriptural warrant for such worship
                      practice. It is no different if I were to propose to the session that in
                      addition to Scripture reading on the Lord's day, we are to read a
                      commentary, maybe some Christian poetry or even perhaps a newspaper. The
                      burden would be entirely on me to scripturally justify my proposals. For
                      reason one hardly can explain, there's a widespread belief in, as
                      strange as it may appear, reformed churches that singing is exempt from
                      the Regulative Principle of Worship. Maybe it is because singing is no
                      longer important?


                      > Consider an analogous situation: man-man speaking.
                      > Hours of sermons are included in our public worship. I
                      > do not understand how a comparatively few minutes of
                      > singing is such a problem.

                      I'm sure Nadab and Abihu didn't see any problem either offering a fire
                      to the Lord "which he commanded them not" (Leviticus 10:1). Please note
                      how such seemingly innocent offence was penalized by the Lord. Singing,
                      considering how much effect it can have on our minds, seems to me much
                      more serious matter than burning fire.



                      > Logically then, the
                      > forbidden thing is the singing voice. Would it be OK
                      > to recite a hymn as long as we do not sing it?


                      Don, if Regulative Principle of Worship has any meaning to you, then
                      logically as well as scripturally the burden is on you to provide a
                      warrant for singing or reciting poetry, prose or what not. We do have a
                      warrant for psalm singing, we do have a warrant for reading of
                      scripture, we do have a warrant for prayer as well for exposition and
                      teaching of scripture. If someone wishes to stage drama, a rock concert
                      or anything else they may fancy, let them provide a warrant. Until then,
                      all we need to remember is "the acceptable way of worshiping the true
                      God is instituted by himself, and so limited by his own revealed will,
                      that he may not be worshiped according to the imaginations and devices
                      of men, or the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representation,
                      or any other way not prescribed in the Holy Scripture."

                      It seems to me, the "not prescribed in the Holy Scripture" clause has
                      little bearing on Christian minds in modern reformed churches all the
                      while "the suggestions of Satan" have all the green light the evil one
                      wants.

                      Nikolai
                      EPC of Australia, Brisbane
                    • Edgar A. Ibarra Jr.
                      ... Alas, the dilema for supporters of singing man-made hymns. They would not argue so anyways. If God allowed man to write their own songs to offer up as a
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 2, 2006
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                        >Don Nelson <donstudybible@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > > > Do the Scriptures allow for man-made hymns?
                        >
                        > I am perplexed. It seems to me that if such hymns were
                        > included in the Scriptures, then that would make them
                        > inspired. There are many songs in the Scriptures other
                        > than in the Book of Psalms, and singing is encouraged
                        > in places where specific content is not recorded.

                        Alas, the dilema for supporters of singing man-made hymns. They
                        would not argue so anyways. If God allowed man to write their own
                        songs to offer up as a sacrifice of praise in the public worship of
                        God we would have some form of indication of that in the NT, but we
                        do not. Do not mis-understand me, I believe there are many
                        beautiful and wonderful hymns, my favorite was "Christ shall have
                        dominion" which is a parapharse of a Psalm. Now for those who would
                        argue that we can sing the song of Mary, for example, then that line
                        of argumentation is still not an argument in favor of man-made
                        hymns, but of inspired hymnody and you are still limited as to the
                        number of hymns outside of the Psalms. Many in Geneva did sing
                        other songs besides the Psalms, but they were INSPIRED hymns. The
                        counter to singing such hymns is this, were those hymns intended for
                        public worship or just an expression of the people overtaken by the
                        Holy Spirit and the work of God that was upon them? The Psalms were
                        meant for worship, but the "inspired hymns" were not. As for the
                        hymns before the Psalter, that was allowed as God was still
                        revealing Himself (i.e. progressive revelation was occuring) to man
                        and until He settled things, there was some liberty in certain
                        areas. HOWEVER, when the Psalter was completed, that was it, no
                        more were to be added, like the closing of the canon of Scripture.
                        We see the Song of Moses for example incorporated into the Psalter.

                        >
                        > Consider an analogous situation: man-man speaking.
                        > Hours of sermons are included in our public worship. I
                        > do not understand how a comparatively few minutes of
                        > singing is such a problem. Logically then, the
                        > forbidden thing is the singing voice. Would it be OK
                        > to recite a hymn as long as we do not sing it?

                        Now man-made sermons are allowed in the public worship of God as God
                        states that His ministers are to teach and instruct and open the
                        Word of God unto His people. That is part and parcel of the office
                        of the Teaching Elder or Pastor. Examples of this are replete in
                        the NT, especially in the book of Acts, starting in Ch. 2. It would
                        not be ok to recite hymns as a means to get around the prohibition,
                        that is dishonest at best and blasphemous at worse. The only
                        elements of worship that are allowed to be man-made are prayer and
                        sermons. Just like we would not read a chapter out of Calvin's
                        Institutes followed by a chapter out of the Bible, we cannot sing a
                        man-made hymn followed by a Psalm (now even one wants to get cute
                        and reverse the order it is still not acceptable).

                        Keep it simple and stick to the Word of God and all will be well.

                        >
                        > Don N

                        Thank you Don & Whit for your questions and I hope they are
                        helpful. Although my answer(s) are short and therefore may not
                        totally satisfy I hope they aid in some way. If you want to study
                        the issue more there are great resources on this subject on
                        www.truecovenanter.com and sermons by Pastor Greg L. Price via
                        sermonaudio.

                        Sola Scriptura,

                        Edgar Ibarra
                        Albany, NY
                        RPNA-Covenanter in belief & practice
                      • Crazy Calvinist
                        Well as far as I can see, whether other songs from Scripture or the Psalms, the qualification for being able to write songs meant for worship was one had to
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jan 3, 2006
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                          Well as far as I can see,  whether other songs from Scripture or the Psalms, the qualification for being able to write songs meant for worship was one had to be a prophet. or prophetess. I don't think Charles Wesley qualifies.
                           
                          ~Deejay

                          "Edgar A. Ibarra Jr." <puritanpresbyterian@...> wrote:
                          >Alas, the dilema for supporters of singing man-made hymns.  They
                          would not argue so anyways.  If God allowed man to write their own
                          songs to offer up as a sacrifice of praise in the public worship of
                          God we would have some form of indication of that in the NT, but we
                          do not.  Do not mis-understand me, I believe there are many
                          beautiful and wonderful hymns, my favorite was "Christ shall have
                          dominion" which is a parapharse of a Psalm.  Now for those who would
                          argue that we can sing the song of Mary, for example, then that line
                          of argumentation is still not an argument in favor of man-made
                          hymns, but of inspired hymnody and you are still limited as to the
                          number of hymns outside of the Psalms.  Many in Geneva did sing
                          other songs besides the Psalms, but they were INSPIRED hymns.  The
                          counter to singing such hymns is this, were those hymns intended for
                          public worship or just an expression of the people overtaken by the
                          Holy Spirit and the work of God that was upon them?  The Psalms were
                          meant for worship, but the "inspired hymns" were not.  As for the
                          hymns before the Psalter, that was allowed as God was still
                          revealing Himself (i.e. progressive revelation was occuring) to man
                          and until He settled things, there was some liberty in certain
                          areas.  HOWEVER, when the Psalter was completed, that was it, no
                          more were to be added, like the closing of the canon of Scripture. 
                          We see the Song of Moses for example incorporated into the Psalter.

                          >


                          Yahoo! Cars NEW - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online search now

                        • Nikolai
                          ... Psalms, the qualification for being able to write songs meant for worship was one had to be a prophet. or prophetess. I don t think Charles Wesley
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jan 3, 2006
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                            <crazy_calvinist@y...> wrote:


                            >>Well as far as I can see, whether other songs from Scripture or the
                            Psalms, the qualification for being able to write songs meant for
                            worship was one had to be a prophet. or prophetess. I don't think
                            Charles Wesley qualifies.<<


                            Deejay,
                            those wishing to sing Wesley's song deny there's such a requirement
                            and I agree with them, there's no such requirement found in Scripture.
                            Our position, IMO, rests entirely on the Regulative Principle (WCF
                            ch.XXI). Those who say they accept ch.XXI of the Confession as truly
                            reflecting scriptural view of worship and at the same engage in
                            un-scriptural worship practice such as hymn signing are either
                            confused or lying.

                            Nikolai
                            EPC od Australia, Brisbane
                          • gmw
                            I agree about the Regulative Principle of Worship, which of course is of great importance in the discussion of Exclusive Psalmody. However, I must agree with
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jan 3, 2006
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                              I agree about the Regulative Principle of Worship, which of course is
                              of great importance in the discussion of Exclusive Psalmody. However,
                              I must agree with Deejay about the significance that the "psalm,
                              hymns, and spiritual song" composers spoken of in Scripture are
                              specifically said to be prophets or prophetesses.

                              From Brian Schwertley's work on Psalmody:

                              "A careful examination of the Scripture passages which discuss the
                              songs used in worship and how worship songs were composed reveals that
                              God only authorizes and accepts divinely inspired songs for the praise
                              of Himself. 'If when the Bible speaks of the source of worship song,
                              it portrays the text as one produced by divine inspiration, then
                              inspiration is a biblical norm for this ordinance as well.'

                              "There are so many examples in the Bible which show the connection
                              between writing songs of praise for the church and prophetic
                              inspiration that it is astounding that this point has been largely
                              ignored by those who claim to hold to the regulative principle. There
                              is the example of the prophetess Miriam who, by divine inspiration,
                              composed a song to celebrate God’s deliverance of Israel from Egypt
                              (Ex. 15:20-21). We also have the inspired song of Deborah the
                              prophetess (Jdg. 5). There are the Spirit-inspired songs of the
                              prophet Isaiah (e.g. 5:1, 26:1 ff., etc.) as well as the divinely
                              inspired song of Mary (Lk. 1:46 ff.). If 1 Corinthians 14:26 refers to
                              Christians composing songs for public worship, these songs were 'as is
                              universally admitted, charismatic songs and therefore products of the
                              immediate inspiration of the Holy Spirit.' (The question of whether
                              the new covenant church should sing divinely inspired songs outside of
                              the book of Psalms is dealt with below.)

                              "The Old Testament saints whom God used to write the Psalter wrote by
                              the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Note once again that prophetic
                              inspiration and the writing of songs of praise go hand in hand. King
                              David, whom the Bible calls a prophet (2 Chr. 29:25-30), wrote his
                              songs by a special gift of the Holy Spirit (2 Sam. 23:1, 2; Ac. 1:16).
                              The New Testament repeatedly refers to David as a prophet when it
                              quotes his songs (cf. Mt. 22:43-44; Mk. 12:36; Ac. 1:16-17; 2:29-31;
                              4:24-25). The worship of the temple musicians and singers is referred
                              to as prophecy in Scripture (1 Chr. 25:1-7). This designation, when
                              applied to song content, obviously means that what they sang was the
                              product of divine inspiration. Thus, the temple musicians and singers
                              who were involved in writing songs for worship did so under the
                              special operation of the Spirit. Heman (who was appointed by David as
                              a worship leader of the sanctuary) is called a 'seer' (1 Chr. 25:5) in
                              Scripture; a term synonymous with the word 'prophet.' Bushell writes,
                              'Prophetic titles and roles are consistently attributed to the chief
                              temple musicians and singers. Asaph, for example, one of David’s
                              principle musicians (1 Chr. 6:39; 15:17; 16:5 ff.; 2 Chr. 5:12),
                              appointed by him over the service of song and by Solomon in the Temple
                              service, is also called a ‘seer’ and placed alongside David as far as
                              authority in Temple music is concerned (2 Chr. 29:30). Nor ought we to
                              miss the significance of the fact that some 12 of the Old Testament
                              Psalms (50, 73-83) are attributed to Asaph, thus confirming his role
                              as a writer of inspired worship song. Jeduthun, another chief temple
                              singer, is also called a "seer" (2 Chr. 35:15; cf. 25:1; and Pss. 39,
                              62, and 77 titles).' The writing of worship songs in the Old Testament
                              was so intimately connected with prophetic inspiration that 2 Kings
                              23:2 and 2 Chronicles 34:30 use the term 'Levite' and 'prophet'
                              interchangeably. The worship of Jehovah is so important that nothing
                              less than infallible Spirit-inspired lyrics are acceptable for praise
                              in the church."

                              -- see more on this subject, as well as the footnotes re: the
                              quotations, in point 5 of Chapter 2 at
                              http://www.reformed.com/pub/psalms.htm

                              gmw.

                              --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Nikolai"
                              <psalmos@s...> wrote:

                              >
                              > Deejay,
                              > those wishing to sing Wesley's song deny there's such a requirement
                              > and I agree with them, there's no such requirement found in Scripture.
                              > Our position, IMO, rests entirely on the Regulative Principle (WCF
                              > ch.XXI). Those who say they accept ch.XXI of the Confession as truly
                              > reflecting scriptural view of worship and at the same engage in
                              > un-scriptural worship practice such as hymn signing are either
                              > confused or lying.
                              >
                              > Nikolai
                              > EPC od Australia, Brisbane
                              >
                            • Nikolai
                              ... All I can gather from Mr. Schwertley s quote is that the songs recorded in scripture are inspired. Nobody disputes that or at least no Bible believing
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jan 4, 2006
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                                gmw wrote:

                                >>From Brian Schwertley's work on Psalmody:
                                >
                                > "A careful examination of the Scripture passages which discuss the
                                > songs used in worship and how worship songs were composed reveals that
                                > God only authorizes and accepts divinely inspired songs for the praise
                                > of Himself.


                                All I can gather from Mr. Schwertley's quote is that the songs recorded
                                in scripture are inspired. Nobody disputes that or at least no Bible
                                believing Christian does. The contention is not about whether or not the
                                songs in the Bible are inspired, the contention is about can we sing
                                uninspired songs in worship. I simply think insisting that Biblical song
                                writers were inspired prophets will not impress someone wishing to sing
                                hymns in worship. After all, we do listen to uninspired scripture
                                exposition and prayer every Lord's day. Analogically, there seems to be
                                nothing wrong with singing uninspired songs. The only way, in my
                                opinion, to actually defeat those wishing to sing uninspired songs is by
                                invoking the Regulative Principle, that is, *they* must, not us, to
                                produce a scriptural warrant for their practice. This is when the two
                                passages from Ephesians and Colossians are brought up but they are of no
                                help for them of course.

                                Obviously, with those denying the Regulative Principle altogether
                                different methods should be used but eventually, the goal is still to
                                show that God should not be worshiped according to imaginations of men
                                or suggestions of Satan no matter who we're speaking to, Reformed,
                                Baptists, Charismatics or whoever.

                                Nikolai
                                EPC of Australia, Brisbane
                              • gmw
                                Hi Nikolai, Some quick comments below: ... But the very quote you included in your response here says much more than simply songs recorded in Scripture are
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jan 4, 2006
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                                  Hi Nikolai,

                                  Some quick comments below:

                                  Nikolai wrote:

                                  > gmw wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >>From Brian Schwertley's work on Psalmody:
                                  > >
                                  > > "A careful examination of the Scripture passages which discuss the
                                  > > songs used in worship and how worship songs were composed reveals that
                                  > > God only authorizes and accepts divinely inspired songs for the praise
                                  > > of Himself.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > All I can gather from Mr. Schwertley's quote is that the songs recorded
                                  > in scripture are inspired.


                                  But the very quote you included in your response here says much more
                                  than simply "songs recorded in Scripture are inspired." It's saying
                                  that the songs which God provides and accepts of, to be used in worship,
                                  are inspired. And so, Scripture only gives warrant for the use of
                                  inspired songs in worship.

                                  > Nobody disputes that or at least no Bible
                                  > believing Christian does.

                                  No Bible believing Christian disputes what you said, but obviously not
                                  all Christians believe what Schwertley was actually saying -- that
                                  Scripture only gives warrant for the use of divinely inspired songs in
                                  worship.

                                  > The contention is not about whether or not the
                                  > songs in the Bible are inspired, the contention is about can we sing
                                  > uninspired songs in worship.

                                  Yes, agreed, of course. I've surely not denied this.

                                  > I simply think insisting that Biblical song
                                  > writers were inspired prophets will not impress someone wishing to sing
                                  > hymns in worship.

                                  Someone wishing to sing hymns in worship (hymns here meaning uninspired
                                  songs as opposed to the inspired hymns commonly called the Psalms) will
                                  not likely be impressed with anything we insist! Someone wishing to
                                  worship God biblically, however, may very well be impressed with the
                                  nature of the songs used in worship given by inspired prophets and
                                  prophetesses. Now, no one is "simply" insisting that our worship songs
                                  must be inspired without also having an eye to the Regulative Principle
                                  of Worship. What I'm saying is this:

                                  Given the Regulative Principle of Worship, we must have Scriptural
                                  warrant for our acts of worship. Scripture gives warrant for the use of
                                  inspired songs in worship, which songs were delivered by inspired men
                                  and women. Scripture gives warrant for no other type of song.
                                  Therefore, we only have warrant from Scripture to sing inspired songs
                                  delivered by inspired people, in worship.

                                  How we come to limit those songs to the 150 Psalms, is, of course,
                                  another (yet related) issue.

                                  > After all, we do listen to uninspired scripture
                                  > exposition and prayer every Lord's day.

                                  Of course, and both uninspired (strictly speaking) preaching and prayer
                                  have Scriptural warrant.

                                  > The only way, in my
                                  > opinion, to actually defeat those wishing to sing uninspired songs is by
                                  > invoking the Regulative Principle, that is, *they* must, not us, to
                                  > produce a scriptural warrant for their practice. This is when the two
                                  > passages from Ephesians and Colossians are brought up but they are of no
                                  > help for them of course.


                                  And I agree with this. If you are understanding anything I'm saying to
                                  disagree with your statement of yours, then either I'm being unclear, or
                                  you are misunderstanding me, friend.

                                  The issue is not that God commands us to /sing only divinely inspired
                                  Psalms/, but that God /only commands us to sing divinely inspired
                                  Psalms/. Given the Regulative Principle, this is enough to warrant
                                  Psalmody, and nothing else.

                                  Good'ay.
                                  gmw.

                                  >
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