Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: Reformation Art - A Major Update

Expand Messages
  • Linda A
    Justifiable homicide....this list is my only link to sanity this time of year. I m afraid I m all by my lonesome. Linda A ... From: gmw
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 9, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Justifiable homicide....this list is my only link to sanity this time of
      year. I'm afraid I'm all by my lonesome.
      Linda A
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "gmw" <raging.calvinist@...>
      To: <covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 12:13 PM
      Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: Reformation Art - A Major Update


      >
      > Oh, I suppose it is! I shall kill it then.
      >
      > Sorry that got thru, folks.
      >
      > gmw.
      >
      > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Linda A"
      > <blwkk2@c...> wrote:
      >>
      >> I'm confused..this is an ad for christmas gifts on a Reformation
      > list?
      >> Linda A
      >> ----- Original Message -----
      >> From: "Andrew Moody" <moodyclan@g...>
      >> To: <covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com>
      >> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 10:07 PM
      >> Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Reformation Art - A Major Update
      >>
      >>
      >> > Greetings,
      >> > I'm writing to let you know that we have updated our site
      >> >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Ginny Dohms
      ... It can be a tough time if you have no support from like-minded family or friends. How long has it been since you stopped celebrating on Dec 25? If it is
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 9, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        >I'm afraid I'm all by my lonesome.
        > Linda A

        It can be a tough time if you have no support from like-minded family or
        friends. How long has it been since you stopped celebrating on Dec 25? If
        it is any encouragement, it does get easier to ignore the HoHo season as
        each year passes. It has been 10-15 years since we last observed the day,
        (I can't quite remember the year but it was somewhere around 1992, I
        believe) and basically now (other than the blasphemy of the name where the
        mass is assigned to Christ), it is nothing more than an annoyance - too many
        shoppers in the stores when I just need to buy my groceries, or some small
        item from Wal Mart. The line-ups are endless, the shoppers are frantic and
        the tellers are frazzled.

        But we remember the first few years as being tough times, when we knew that
        our family was all gathered together in someone's house fellowshipping
        together, and we were absent. That is the ONLY part I miss - the warm fuzzy
        times, like sitting up late with my sister eating chocolates and nuts while
        we gabbed into the wee hours of the morning. I can still do that with her,
        just not at this time of year.

        If there is anything we can do to help you through the next few weeks, just
        let us know.

        Ginny
      • Linda A
        Hi Ginny, I haven t put up a tree, sent cards, etc for several years and I have told my family and some friends how I feel about the holyday but, I m the
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 9, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Ginny, I haven't put up a tree, sent cards, etc for several years and I
          have told my family and some friends how I feel about the "holyday" but,
          I'm the grandmother of 10 and the mother of 3 and the "celebration" is at my
          house....even though it is not decorated. Folks put their gifts on the chair
          in the living room. I don't do gifts but I do give the children money. So,
          you see, I'm a hypicrite. My husband doesn't share my views but he doesn't
          complain about my not celebrating. He would rather I did the warm fuzzies
          but never says anything. One daughter agrees with me, one daughter thinks
          I'm crazy, one son agrees with this sister, one friend thinks religion has
          driven me crazy, another friend agrees with me but goes along with the
          celebrations and house decorating. I'm at a loss as to how so many folks can
          be so blind. When my children were growing up, I hated Santa and thought we
          should get to the "real meaning" of xmas. Now I think that doing the Santa
          thing would be less harmful than pretending there was a religious reason for
          this craziness. I'll just be glad when it's over. I'm feeling very
          disobedient.
          Linda A
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Ginny Dohms" <gdawn@...>
          To: <covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 3:56 PM
          Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: Reformation Art - A Major Update


          > >I'm afraid I'm all by my lonesome.
          >> Linda A
          >
          > It can be a tough time if you have no support from like-minded family or
          > friends. How long has it been since you stopped celebrating on Dec 25?
          > If
          > it is any encouragement, it does get easier to ignore the HoHo season as
          > each year passes. It has been 10-15 years since we last observed the day,
          > (I can't quite remember the year but it was somewhere around 1992, I
          > believe) and basically now (other than the blasphemy of the name where the
          > mass is assigned to Christ), it is nothing more than an annoyance - too
          > many
          > shoppers in the stores when I just need to buy my groceries, or some small
          > item from Wal Mart. The line-ups are endless, the shoppers are frantic
          > and
          > the tellers are frazzled.
          >
          > But we remember the first few years as being tough times, when we knew
          > that
          > our family was all gathered together in someone's house fellowshipping
          > together, and we were absent. That is the ONLY part I miss - the warm
          > fuzzy
          > times, like sitting up late with my sister eating chocolates and nuts
          > while
          > we gabbed into the wee hours of the morning. I can still do that with
          > her,
          > just not at this time of year.
          >
          > If there is anything we can do to help you through the next few weeks,
          > just
          > let us know.
          >
          > Ginny
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • trygvesson@aol.com
          In a message dated 12/9/2005 4:03:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdawn@wraezor.com writes: It can be a tough time if you have no support from like-minded family
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 9, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            In a message dated 12/9/2005 4:03:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, gdawn@... writes:
            "It can be a tough time if you have no support from like-minded family or friends.  How long has it been since you stopped celebrating on Dec 25?"
             
             
            Ginny,
             
            Greetings! This is a good topic, and very practical for most who come to a P&R understanding of the vulgarity of observance of such holy days.
             
            For me, it has been 11 years since I came to embrace the confessional view and abandon the practice of observing Christ-mass, and for my wife and I together as a family, it has been the 7 years we have been married. We find this to be very liberating and freeing, and as well appreciate and look forward all the more each of our 52 commanded holy days per year :-)
             
            Linda, I will pray for you, as I remember what it was like to be the only one.
             
            It is good to have friends who are like minded in their confessional approach to such Romish practices. For many a year when I was in the OPC, I was the only one at the OPC church who did not practice the celebration of Christ-mass. I received quite a bit of harassing and chiding from the other OPC members, and though their harassment never caused me to waver in my position, it made for a very lonely and remarkably boring month.
             
            Then, around late 2001, our RPCNA pastor moved into the area, we joined the RPCNA, the Lynchburg RPCNA mission work was begun, and we have been blessed to have many more friends who also do not capitulate to the papist high holy day.
             
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            Christopher Coombes
            Lynchburg Reformed Presbyterian Fellowship,
            Lynchburg, VA
            Member, Triangle RPC
            RPCNA


                                                                            _
                                                                           / )
                                                         (\__/)         ( (
                                                          )    (           ) )
                                                       ={      }=       / /
                                                          )     `-------/ /
                                                         (               /
                                                          \              |
                                                          ,'\       ,    ,'
                                                          `-'\  ,---\   | \
                                                             _) )    `. \ /
                                                            (__/       ) )
                                                                      (_/
          • gmw
            Great thread, guys! For me and my family, it s been the past 4 or 5 years we haven t kept X-Mass (can t right remember exactly). We had been coming to the
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 9, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Great thread, guys!

              For me and my family, it's been the past 4 or 5 years we haven't kept
              X-Mass (can't right remember exactly). We had been coming to the
              conclusion that X-Mass was not good for a little while before we
              finally made the decision to announce to our loved ones that we
              wouldn't be observing X-Mass or Ishtar anymore. I have an Aunt and
              Uncle that still hate us for it. I had arguments with several family
              members (some of which eventually came around to our position!). It
              still gets funny at work -- no one in the office has put up
              decorations yet, but I have my X-Mass DECLARATIONS ready to hang up
              around my desk at first sight of lights and tinsel.

              It can be lonely, but I find it kinda fun too.

              "Now kids, what are we going to say if there's a Santa in this store
              wishing us a merry Christmas?"

              "I don't believe in you or your wicked day, you wretched troll!"

              "That's right, kids! Let's go shopping, then."

              :)

              gmw.

              --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, trygvesson@a...
              wrote:
              >
              >
              > In a message dated 12/9/2005 4:03:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
              > gdawn@w... writes:
              > "It can be a tough time if you have no support from like-minded
              family or
              > friends. How long has it been since you stopped celebrating on
              Dec 25?"
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Ginny,
              >
              > Greetings! This is a good topic, and very practical for most who
              come to a
              > P&R understanding of the vulgarity of observance of such holy
              days.
              >
              > For me, it has been 11 years since I came to embrace the
              confessional view
              > and abandon the practice of observing Christ-mass, and for my wife
              and I
              > together as a family, it has been the 7 years we have been
              married. We find this
              > to be very liberating and freeing, and as well appreciate and look
              forward all
              > the more each of our 52 commanded holy days per year :-)
              >
              > Linda, I will pray for you, as I remember what it was like to be
              the only
              > one.
              >
              > It is good to have friends who are like minded in their
              confessional
              > approach to such Romish practices. For many a year when I was in
              the OPC, I was the
              > only one at the OPC church who did not practice the celebration of
              > Christ-mass. I received quite a bit of harassing and chiding from
              the other OPC
              > members, and though their harassment never caused me to waver in
              my position, it
              > made for a very lonely and remarkably boring month.
              >
              > Then, around late 2001, our RPCNA pastor moved into the area, we
              joined the
              > RPCNA, the Lynchburg RPCNA mission work was begun, and we have
              been blessed
              > to have many more friends who also do not capitulate to the papist
              high holy
              > day.
              >
              > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              > Christopher Coombes
              > Lynchburg Reformed Presbyterian Fellowship,
              > Lynchburg, VA
              > Member, Triangle RPC
              > RPCNA
              >
              > _
              > / )
              > (\__/) ( (
              > ) ( ) )
              > ={ }= / /
              > ) `-------/ /
              > ( /
              > \ |
              > ,'\ , ,'
              > `-'\ ,---\ | \
              > _) ) `. \ /
              > (__/ ) )
              > (_/
              >
            • Ginny Dohms
              Hi Linda, Your situation is very challenging, and a much harder struggle than what most of us here have to face. We have the support and encouragement of our
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 9, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Linda,

                Your situation is very challenging, and a much harder struggle than what
                most of us here have to face. We have the support and encouragement of our
                spouse and children. No one is here to judge you, nor call you a hypocrite,
                nor call you disobedient. We want to encourage and support you at this
                time. I do feel for you in your difficult dilemma, and I will pray for you,
                that God will sustain you over the next 16 days, and give you His peace for
                your faithfulness to Him.

                Ginny
              • Edgar A. Ibarra Jr.
                Rage Against Xmas, I had a similiar exprience last December of 04. My office pinned up XMAS lights and junk like that to celebrate the season. So I pinned
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 9, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Rage Against Xmas,

                  I had a similiar exprience last December of '04. My office pinned
                  up XMAS lights and junk like that to celebrate the season. So I
                  pinned up verses against Idolatry and some Protestant HoHo carols
                  that J.D. penned. When they played the carols I voiced my
                  opposition. As a Supervisor many could not tell me to back down,
                  but a peer took the issue to our boss. I told him my position.
                  Seeing that the argument against this paganism using the Bible
                  explicitly would not fly due to company policy, I used company
                  policy to challenge the observance in such a public manner in the
                  office. I took this to Human Resources and said that I was offended
                  by this and that it was a religious observance that had no place in
                  the work place. Based on that and that company policy will not
                  allow any group to be "discriminated against" they told local
                  management to not put up anything that celebrates the season in the
                  office. I was, by God's grace, able to extirpate Xmas from my
                  office!!! Off the record, I did present a Biblical case against the
                  observance with them, but I knew that would not persuade them to
                  cease the observance, so I used their own policy to ge rid of the
                  observance.

                  GMW, may be you can use the same tactic to get rid of Xmas
                  observance from your office?

                  Oh, that the Lord's Day were so venerated and more!

                  Edgar Ibarra
                  Reformed Presbytery of North America
                  Albany, New York


                  --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "gmw"
                  <raging.calvinist@v...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Great thread, guys!
                  >
                  > For me and my family, it's been the past 4 or 5 years we haven't
                  kept
                  > X-Mass (can't right remember exactly). We had been coming to the
                  > conclusion that X-Mass was not good for a little while before we
                  > finally made the decision to announce to our loved ones that we
                  > wouldn't be observing X-Mass or Ishtar anymore. I have an Aunt
                  and
                  > Uncle that still hate us for it. I had arguments with several
                  family
                  > members (some of which eventually came around to our position!).
                  It
                  > still gets funny at work -- no one in the office has put up
                  > decorations yet, but I have my X-Mass DECLARATIONS ready to hang
                  up
                  > around my desk at first sight of lights and tinsel.
                  >
                  > It can be lonely, but I find it kinda fun too.
                  >
                  > "Now kids, what are we going to say if there's a Santa in this
                  store
                  > wishing us a merry Christmas?"
                  >
                  > "I don't believe in you or your wicked day, you wretched troll!"
                  >
                  > "That's right, kids! Let's go shopping, then."
                  >
                  > :)
                  >
                  > gmw.
                  >
                  > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, trygvesson@a...
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > In a message dated 12/9/2005 4:03:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                  > > gdawn@w... writes:
                  > > "It can be a tough time if you have no support from like-minded
                  > family or
                  > > friends. How long has it been since you stopped celebrating on
                  > Dec 25?"
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Ginny,
                  > >
                  > > Greetings! This is a good topic, and very practical for most
                  who
                  > come to a
                  > > P&R understanding of the vulgarity of observance of such holy
                  > days.
                  > >
                  > > For me, it has been 11 years since I came to embrace the
                  > confessional view
                  > > and abandon the practice of observing Christ-mass, and for my
                  wife
                  > and I
                  > > together as a family, it has been the 7 years we have been
                  > married. We find this
                  > > to be very liberating and freeing, and as well appreciate and
                  look
                  > forward all
                  > > the more each of our 52 commanded holy days per year :-)
                  > >
                  > > Linda, I will pray for you, as I remember what it was like to
                  be
                  > the only
                  > > one.
                  > >
                  > > It is good to have friends who are like minded in their
                  > confessional
                  > > approach to such Romish practices. For many a year when I was
                  in
                  > the OPC, I was the
                  > > only one at the OPC church who did not practice the celebration
                  of
                  > > Christ-mass. I received quite a bit of harassing and chiding
                  from
                  > the other OPC
                  > > members, and though their harassment never caused me to waver
                  in
                  > my position, it
                  > > made for a very lonely and remarkably boring month.
                  > >
                  > > Then, around late 2001, our RPCNA pastor moved into the area,
                  we
                  > joined the
                  > > RPCNA, the Lynchburg RPCNA mission work was begun, and we have
                  > been blessed
                  > > to have many more friends who also do not capitulate to the
                  papist
                  > high holy
                  > > day.
                  > >
                  > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  > > Christopher Coombes
                  > > Lynchburg Reformed Presbyterian Fellowship,
                  > > Lynchburg, VA
                  > > Member, Triangle RPC
                  > > RPCNA
                  > >
                  > > _
                  > > / )
                  > > (\__/) ( (
                  > > ) ( ) )
                  > > ={ }= / /
                  > > ) `-------/ /
                  > > ( /
                  > > \ |
                  > > ,'\ , ,'
                  > > `-'\ ,---\ | \
                  > > _) ) `. \ /
                  > > (__/ ) )
                  > > (_/
                  > >
                  >
                • Andrew Moody
                  just a wee note... I find it intriguing that such can be said of me on this list, Toleration of idolatry and pluralism of contradictory doctrines is rampant
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 10, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    just a wee note...

                    I find it intriguing that such can be said of me on this list,

                    "Toleration of idolatry and pluralism of contradictory doctrines
                    is rampant in modern day "Reformed" churches. The guy that posted
                    that incorrectly assumed that we faithful Covenanters buy into that
                    junk. The Seminaries of today are good for historical revision, but
                    those that buy into these gross errors and idolatry will be quickly
                    reminded of the fact that Reformers are not to tolerate such
                    garbage, as the prior posts have aptly demonstrated."

                    Meanwhile Linda is allowed to buy into such rampant Paganism and to
                    support her children and grandchildren in it. Please show a little
                    consistency. It's always easy to take pot shots at a cyber-somebody
                    who isn't directly involved in the conversation. However, even if
                    you don't direct such remarks directly toward Linda, she knows
                    you're thinking them because of how you talk about others.

                    My post was a form post sent out to many. I was not personally
                    aware that this group was so strongly set against "that holiday
                    which must not be named" on Dec. 25. If I would've known that, any
                    references to it would've been deleted.

                    Flat out, it was not an advertisement for Christmas. It was an
                    advertisement for Presbyterian and Reformed historical artwork.

                    Personally, being a member of that far left liberal group (the OPC),
                    my family doesn't do "Santa" or the like. I do teach my children
                    about the emptiness of secular Christmas, and the centrality of
                    Christ in all things. However, if people use this time of year to
                    get their families together to celebrate the incarnation (which we
                    do every Sunday), I don't see a reason to berate them for it.
                    Moreover, I wouldn't teach my children to disrespect strangers in
                    the mall by calling them "trolls", in the same way I wouldn't have
                    them calling people "faggots" or "papist hell-mongors." They know of
                    the detestable sin of homosexuality and the grave errors of Rome,
                    but are not prideful that they have the truth, rather they are
                    humbled by it in submission to Christ. I seriously doubt that name-
                    calling and putting up "Christmas Declarations" (however nice they
                    may be) is going to help bring anyone to the truth. An engaging
                    patient conversation might be more productive.

                    Well, that's my 2 cents worth. You can get back to your bickering
                    now.

                    By His Grace,
                    Andrew Moody




                    --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Ginny Dohms"
                    <gdawn@w...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Linda,
                    >
                    > Your situation is very challenging, and a much harder struggle
                    than what
                    > most of us here have to face. We have the support and
                    encouragement of our
                    > spouse and children. No one is here to judge you, nor call you a
                    hypocrite,
                    > nor call you disobedient. We want to encourage and support you at
                    this
                    > time. I do feel for you in your difficult dilemma, and I will
                    pray for you,
                    > that God will sustain you over the next 16 days, and give you His
                    peace for
                    > your faithfulness to Him.
                    >
                    > Ginny
                    >
                  • Linda A
                    Andrew, I m sorry thay you are upset. When I clicked on your link, the first thing I saw was Christmas Special, order 3 prints, etc and I thought it odd on
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 10, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Andrew, I'm sorry thay you are upset. When I clicked on your link, the first
                      thing I saw was "Christmas Special, order 3 prints, etc" and I thought it
                      odd on this list. I have been on this list for several years, although I
                      rarely post and I know everybody's beliefs on the subject. This time of year
                      brings mixed emotions for me because I feel that I'm doing the wrong thing
                      by going along with the "rampant paganism" even if after registering my
                      complaints with my family. As far as the list goes, I'm not looking for
                      absolution from them. I very much realize what I need to do and I pray that
                      I'll do it one day. I o appreciate their prayers. And that's all I got from
                      the posts....not a pass.
                      Linda A
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Andrew Moody" <moodyclan@...>
                      To: <covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 11:55 AM
                      Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: Reformation Art - A Major Update


                      > just a wee note...
                      >
                      > I find it intriguing that such can be said of me on this list,
                      >
                      > "Toleration of idolatry and pluralism of contradictory doctrines
                      > is rampant in modern day "Reformed" churches. The guy that posted
                      > that incorrectly assumed that we faithful Covenanters buy into that
                      > junk. The Seminaries of today are good for historical revision, but
                      > those that buy into these gross errors and idolatry will be quickly
                      > reminded of the fact that Reformers are not to tolerate such
                      > garbage, as the prior posts have aptly demonstrated."
                      >
                      > Meanwhile Linda is allowed to buy into such rampant Paganism and to
                      > support her children and grandchildren in it. Please show a little
                      > consistency. It's always easy to take pot shots at a cyber-somebody
                      > who isn't directly involved in the conversation. However, even if
                      > you don't direct such remarks directly toward Linda, she knows
                      > you're thinking them because of how you talk about others.
                      >
                      > My post was a form post sent out to many. I was not personally
                      > aware that this group was so strongly set against "that holiday
                      > which must not be named" on Dec. 25. If I would've known that, any
                      > references to it would've been deleted.
                      >
                      > Flat out, it was not an advertisement for Christmas. It was an
                      > advertisement for Presbyterian and Reformed historical artwork.
                      >
                      > Personally, being a member of that far left liberal group (the OPC),
                      > my family doesn't do "Santa" or the like. I do teach my children
                      > about the emptiness of secular Christmas, and the centrality of
                      > Christ in all things. However, if people use this time of year to
                      > get their families together to celebrate the incarnation (which we
                      > do every Sunday), I don't see a reason to berate them for it.
                      > Moreover, I wouldn't teach my children to disrespect strangers in
                      > the mall by calling them "trolls", in the same way I wouldn't have
                      > them calling people "faggots" or "papist hell-mongors." They know of
                      > the detestable sin of homosexuality and the grave errors of Rome,
                      > but are not prideful that they have the truth, rather they are
                      > humbled by it in submission to Christ. I seriously doubt that name-
                      > calling and putting up "Christmas Declarations" (however nice they
                      > may be) is going to help bring anyone to the truth. An engaging
                      > patient conversation might be more productive.
                      >
                      > Well, that's my 2 cents worth. You can get back to your bickering
                      > now.
                      >
                      > By His Grace,
                      > Andrew Moody
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Ginny Dohms"
                      > <gdawn@w...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> Hi Linda,
                      >>
                      >> Your situation is very challenging, and a much harder struggle
                      > than what
                      >> most of us here have to face. We have the support and
                      > encouragement of our
                      >> spouse and children. No one is here to judge you, nor call you a
                      > hypocrite,
                      >> nor call you disobedient. We want to encourage and support you at
                      > this
                      >> time. I do feel for you in your difficult dilemma, and I will
                      > pray for you,
                      >> that God will sustain you over the next 16 days, and give you His
                      > peace for
                      >> your faithfulness to Him.
                      >>
                      >> Ginny
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • gmw
                      No doubt others will speak for themselves concerning those things spoken of them. I shall address one thing concerning a thing spoken ... A poor woman
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 10, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        No doubt others will speak for themselves concerning those things
                        spoken of them. I shall address one thing concerning a thing spoken
                        of me, after making some other comments:

                        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Moody"
                        <moodyclan@g...> wrote:

                        > Meanwhile Linda is allowed to buy into such rampant Paganism and to
                        > support her children and grandchildren in it. Please show a little
                        > consistency.

                        A poor woman suffering through X-Mass celebrations that make her
                        cringe, because she is subjected to those things by other members of
                        her family, doing things that grieve her conscience not knowing what
                        else to do in her difficult situation,

                        and,

                        Someone pitching a Christmas sale, which can be nothing else but using
                        this holiday to get in the money changing done in Christ's name,

                        are not one and the same thing, and so showing pity towards one, and
                        overturning the tables of the other, is not to show inconsistency. At
                        least I don't see how it is.

                        > Flat out, it was not an advertisement for Christmas. It was an
                        > advertisement for Presbyterian and Reformed historical artwork.

                        Some of it is very nice work, by the way.

                        > However, if people use this time of year to
                        > get their families together to celebrate the incarnation (which we
                        > do every Sunday), I don't see a reason to berate them for it.

                        Who told you it was Jesus' birthday? Where did you get the idea to
                        celebrate the incarnation of Christ in a special way on December 25th?

                        > Moreover, I wouldn't teach my children to disrespect strangers in
                        > the mall by calling them "trolls", in the same way I wouldn't have
                        > them calling people "faggots" or "papist hell-mongors."

                        Read what I wrote again, and perhaps this time it might be apparent to
                        you that the reference to the troll, was to those who dress up like
                        fat ELVES and lie to children about being omniscient and omnipresent
                        and able to fulfill their wishes. THAT is who I am instructing my
                        children to refer to as a troll, which is not far off from an elf,
                        only less cuddly and loveable in connotation.

                        Concerning the other epitomes you brought up, I would suggest that
                        there are times when those titles are duly used. For example, Calvin
                        (that man you have pictures of at your website), in oh so many sermons
                        of his, frequently calls the Pope, "his shavelings," and the Romanish
                        Church things like beasts, devils, people possessed by the devil,
                        AntiChrist, dogs, pigs, "a very harlot", and the like. Of course, he
                        does so in Christian love to his people, warning them of their
                        diabolical wickednesses.

                        > I seriously doubt that name-
                        > calling and putting up "Christmas Declarations" (however nice they
                        > may be) is going to help bring anyone to the truth.

                        The Reformed and Presbyterian churches, in their purest times,
                        declared what God's word says about humanly devised pagan holidays. I
                        have typed some of those things up, and if the professing Christians
                        in my office begin to participate in pagan idolatry BY DECORATING MY
                        DESK, I'm going to hang up the declarations that, oddly enough, DO
                        PRODUCE ENGAGING AND PATIENT CONVERSATIONS. Sitting there with my
                        mouth shut while people hang lights and junk around MY DESK does
                        NOTHING by make it appear that I agree with their pagan merry-making
                        in the name of my King and Savior.

                        > Well, that's my 2 cents worth. You can get back to your bickering
                        > now.

                        There was not bickering going on about this particular topic. We've
                        all agreed so far!

                        gmw.
                      • gmw
                        LOL! I m an uneducated moronic blockhead, and sometimes the public gets a peak of it too! I, of course, meant to type epithet. gmw.
                        Message 11 of 15 , Dec 10, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          LOL! I'm an uneducated moronic blockhead, and sometimes the public gets
                          a peak of it too!

                          I, of course, meant to type "epithet."

                          gmw.

                          gmw wrote:

                          > Concerning the other epitomes you brought up,
                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        • gmw
                          And, I, of course, meant peek ! Ugh... gmw.
                          Message 12 of 15 , Dec 10, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            And, I, of course, meant "peek"!

                            Ugh...

                            gmw.

                            gmw wrote:

                            >
                            > LOL! I'm an uneducated moronic blockhead, and sometimes the public gets
                            > a peak of it too!
                            >
                            > I, of course, meant to type "epithet."
                            >
                            > gmw.
                            >
                            > gmw wrote:
                            >
                            > > Concerning the other epitomes you brought up,
                            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > SPONSORED LINKS
                            > True religion
                            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=True+religion&w1=True+religion&w2=Reformed+church&w3=Theology&c=3&s=54&.sig=SOHXdZ-CR3OiXyEMUmYqyw>
                            > Reformed church
                            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Reformed+church&w1=True+religion&w2=Reformed+church&w3=Theology&c=3&s=54&.sig=el09INBmGQx3Rvs6aLGvvg>
                            > Theology
                            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theology&w1=True+religion&w2=Reformed+church&w3=Theology&c=3&s=54&.sig=kODNWR3farjnEy6FTJcp3A>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                            >
                            > * Visit your group "covenantedreformationclub
                            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/covenantedreformationclub>" on
                            > the web.
                            >
                            > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > covenantedreformationclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > <mailto:covenantedreformationclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                            >
                            > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                            > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            >
                          • Larry Bump
                            I thought you did it on purpose, myself. Thought it was a pretty good joke, too. ... From: gmw ... -- Internal Virus Database
                            Message 13 of 15 , Dec 10, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I thought you did it on purpose, myself. Thought it was a pretty good joke,
                              too.

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "gmw" <raging.calvinist@...>

                              > And, I, of course, meant "peek"!

                              > > LOL! I'm an uneducated moronic blockhead, and sometimes the public gets
                              > > a peak of it too!



                              --
                              Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
                              Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                              Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 267.13.10 - Release Date: 11/29/2005
                            • gmw
                              I wish I could make the claim! Alas, it was not on purpose. It s such a fine line between stupid, and clever. gmw.
                              Message 14 of 15 , Dec 10, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I wish I could make the claim! Alas, it was not on purpose.

                                "It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever."

                                gmw.

                                Larry Bump wrote:

                                > I thought you did it on purpose, myself. Thought it was a pretty good
                                > joke,
                                > too.
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "gmw" <raging.calvinist@...>
                                >
                                > > And, I, of course, meant "peek"!
                                >
                                > > > LOL! I'm an uneducated moronic blockhead, and sometimes the
                                > public gets
                                > > > a peak of it too!
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --
                                > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
                                > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                                > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 267.13.10 - Release Date: 11/29/2005
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > SPONSORED LINKS
                                > True religion
                                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=True+religion&w1=True+religion&w2=Reformed+church&w3=Theology&c=3&s=54&.sig=SOHXdZ-CR3OiXyEMUmYqyw>
                                > Reformed church
                                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Reformed+church&w1=True+religion&w2=Reformed+church&w3=Theology&c=3&s=54&.sig=el09INBmGQx3Rvs6aLGvvg>
                                > Theology
                                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theology&w1=True+religion&w2=Reformed+church&w3=Theology&c=3&s=54&.sig=kODNWR3farjnEy6FTJcp3A>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                >
                                > * Visit your group "covenantedreformationclub
                                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/covenantedreformationclub>" on
                                > the web.
                                >
                                > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > covenantedreformationclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > <mailto:covenantedreformationclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                >
                                > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                >
                              • Andrew Moody
                                Thanks for the clarification, and the amicable reply. I am aware of the Reformer s use of strong rhetoric. I m not accusing you of this, but I ve had
                                Message 15 of 15 , Dec 10, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Thanks for the clarification, and the amicable reply.

                                  I am aware of the Reformer's use of strong rhetoric. I'm not
                                  accusing you of this, but I've had discussions with several
                                  individuals over the past years who bring it up only to justify
                                  their slanderous and schismatic use of their tongues.

                                  The Reformers were not without sin, although I thank God for their
                                  strength and resolve during particularly perilous times. However,
                                  their fight was within the church. In my sinfulness, I need
                                  constant reminder to do as Paul instructed in Col 4:5-6,
                                  "Conduct yourselves wisely(1 )toward outsiders, making the best use
                                  of the time. 6 Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with
                                  salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person."

                                  I feel my previous post was not "well-seasoned", and for that I
                                  apologize and ask your forgiveness.

                                  With regard to Linda, I understand the awkwardness of the situation,
                                  peer pressure, etc.. However, I am not convinced (as it appears you
                                  all are) that sharing family time on December 25 is Satanic. I do
                                  not believe that December 25 is "Jesus' Birthday", I merely said
                                  some celebrate the incarnation on that day, to which I added, we
                                  should be doing year round. However, I do not think it inherently
                                  evil to do so, and I believe that Christ's people can celebrate his
                                  birth in good conscience.

                                  I have no desire to get into a debate over a matter where you
                                  already have made up your mind. Moreover, I don't have the time to
                                  do so.

                                  However, to Linda. I, differing from others on this list would
                                  counsel you to enjoy your time with your family, and not spend it
                                  with guilt and loathing. Moreover, look to your spiritual ancestors
                                  in Scotland who had much greater struggles to endure. Let them be
                                  an example of faithfulness despite suffering, even to the martyr's
                                  tomb. Moreover, look to Christ who for the joy set before him
                                  endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right
                                  hand of God. Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility
                                  against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. In
                                  your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of
                                  shedding your blood. (Hebrews 12:3-4).

                                  Take heart dear sister, Christ has overcome the world!

                                  May the Lord bless you all, and may we all be blessed by the means
                                  of grace he has provided, primarily the preaching of his Word that
                                  we are to have hte privelage of sitting under (and proclaiming for
                                  some of us) tomorrow on His Sabbath.

                                  By His Grace,
                                  Andrew Moody








                                  --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "gmw"
                                  <raging.calvinist@v...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > No doubt others will speak for themselves concerning those things
                                  > spoken of them. I shall address one thing concerning a thing
                                  spoken
                                  > of me, after making some other comments:
                                  >
                                  > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Moody"
                                  > <moodyclan@g...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Meanwhile Linda is allowed to buy into such rampant Paganism and
                                  to
                                  > > support her children and grandchildren in it. Please show a
                                  little
                                  > > consistency.
                                  >
                                  > A poor woman suffering through X-Mass celebrations that make her
                                  > cringe, because she is subjected to those things by other members
                                  of
                                  > her family, doing things that grieve her conscience not knowing
                                  what
                                  > else to do in her difficult situation,
                                  >
                                  > and,
                                  >
                                  > Someone pitching a Christmas sale, which can be nothing else but
                                  using
                                  > this holiday to get in the money changing done in Christ's name,
                                  >
                                  > are not one and the same thing, and so showing pity towards one,
                                  and
                                  > overturning the tables of the other, is not to show
                                  inconsistency. At
                                  > least I don't see how it is.
                                  >
                                  > > Flat out, it was not an advertisement for Christmas. It was an
                                  > > advertisement for Presbyterian and Reformed historical artwork.
                                  >
                                  > Some of it is very nice work, by the way.
                                  >
                                  > > However, if people use this time of year to
                                  > > get their families together to celebrate the incarnation (which
                                  we
                                  > > do every Sunday), I don't see a reason to berate them for it.
                                  >
                                  > Who told you it was Jesus' birthday? Where did you get the idea to
                                  > celebrate the incarnation of Christ in a special way on December
                                  25th?
                                  >
                                  > > Moreover, I wouldn't teach my children to disrespect strangers
                                  in
                                  > > the mall by calling them "trolls", in the same way I wouldn't
                                  have
                                  > > them calling people "faggots" or "papist hell-mongors."
                                  >
                                  > Read what I wrote again, and perhaps this time it might be
                                  apparent to
                                  > you that the reference to the troll, was to those who dress up like
                                  > fat ELVES and lie to children about being omniscient and
                                  omnipresent
                                  > and able to fulfill their wishes. THAT is who I am instructing my
                                  > children to refer to as a troll, which is not far off from an elf,
                                  > only less cuddly and loveable in connotation.
                                  >
                                  > Concerning the other epitomes you brought up, I would suggest that
                                  > there are times when those titles are duly used. For example,
                                  Calvin
                                  > (that man you have pictures of at your website), in oh so many
                                  sermons
                                  > of his, frequently calls the Pope, "his shavelings," and the
                                  Romanish
                                  > Church things like beasts, devils, people possessed by the devil,
                                  > AntiChrist, dogs, pigs, "a very harlot", and the like. Of course,
                                  he
                                  > does so in Christian love to his people, warning them of their
                                  > diabolical wickednesses.
                                  >
                                  > > I seriously doubt that name-
                                  > > calling and putting up "Christmas Declarations" (however nice
                                  they
                                  > > may be) is going to help bring anyone to the truth.
                                  >
                                  > The Reformed and Presbyterian churches, in their purest times,
                                  > declared what God's word says about humanly devised pagan
                                  holidays. I
                                  > have typed some of those things up, and if the professing
                                  Christians
                                  > in my office begin to participate in pagan idolatry BY DECORATING
                                  MY
                                  > DESK, I'm going to hang up the declarations that, oddly enough, DO
                                  > PRODUCE ENGAGING AND PATIENT CONVERSATIONS. Sitting there with my
                                  > mouth shut while people hang lights and junk around MY DESK does
                                  > NOTHING by make it appear that I agree with their pagan merry-
                                  making
                                  > in the name of my King and Savior.
                                  >
                                  > > Well, that's my 2 cents worth. You can get back to your
                                  bickering
                                  > > now.
                                  >
                                  > There was not bickering going on about this particular topic.
                                  We've
                                  > all agreed so far!
                                  >
                                  > gmw.
                                  >
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.