- G'day Edgar!
Yes, Spain was the home of the Vatican Inquisition and invented the
Iron Maiden. Unfortunately for reformers there, Ferdinand and
Isabella happened to be on the throne, and they were mad on
uniformity in worship of the beast. Also in torturing Indians and
extracting gold under the fictitious "Donation". Americans fought
various wars against Spain, under the crown of London and later
under the presidents, because of the brutal history towards the
Chris Columbus was the pirate "buccaneer" who made it all possible
for the Castillians to claim the New World and even threaten the
throne of Elizabeth, and yet Americans actually have a "holiday" to
celebrate the man they fought against. Weird! At least the former
Spanish and Portugese lands know better.
What a pity their never was a reformation in Spain, Austria, or
Italy. It would have been great to see Charles V side with Luther
and claim all of Central Europe, the Balkans, Germania, Borgia lands
and Castillian lands from the Popes and Ottomans. Rome would have
been totally surrounded, and cut off from France and Poland. Oh
well. Maybe next time!
Towards a Covenanted Presbyterian Re-unified Western Church.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Edgar A. Ibarra
Jr." <puritanpresbyterian@y...> wrote:
> SWRB and other stores as well. Try a Google search to get the
> No Covenanters in Spain, the Protestant Reformation was totally
> squashed and short-lived. Protestantism is slowly coming into
> but mostly the Charismatics & Baptists. There is a smallPrebyterian
> church there.the
> --- In email@example.com, "Whit"
> <covie_pres.1646@v...> wrote:
> > > First Thomas M'Crie, the church biographer that re-introduced
> > Presbyterians of his day to John Knox, also the author of theread
> > of the Reformation in Spain.
> > Where can I purchase that book? SWRB? I have always wanted to
> > about Spain's relation to the reforming Church. (I was therelast
> yearHence, I
> > and could not find any good Covenanter church or society.
> > elected for private worship and didn't attend church thatSunday.)
> > Whit
- Not likely to happen unless there is a major revival in the Southern
lands. I just don't see "Mad Dog" Adair and Gerry Adams allowing
anyone to live in peace if they can help it. I wish they would both
follow the example of Bobby Sands and go on hungar strike. I don't
think either would be missed.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Whit"
> Charles II as King of Ireland? Jumping Jehosaphat! Charles II is
> nothing more than a Ursurper both regarding the Covenanted
> Reformation (after he broke the Covenants) and Ireland. I long
> the day of a re-united Ireland (i.e, re-united under theCovenants)
> and a re-united Three Kingdoms.continue
> --- In email@example.com, "Edgar A. Ibarra
> Jr." <puritanpresbyterian@y...> wrote:
> > ¡Bienvienido Hermano!
> > The term "Steelites" was given to the Covenanters that
> > to adhere to the entire Second Reformation of 1638-1649(inclusive)
> > and to the faithful Covenanters during the "Killing Times" of1660-
> > 1688, of today. The few Covenanters that were left at thethe
> > Revolution of King William of Orange, refused to join the re-
> > established Church of Scotland, since it was re-established on
> > King's terms and not on the terms of the Church. In 1650, whenhe
> > Charles II assumed the throne to Scotland, England, & Ireland,
> > swore that he would uphold the Solemn League and Covenant andthat
> > he would punish any who sought to overturn it. His taking theSolemn
> > throne to be King was dependant upon his faithfulness to the
> > League and Covenant. He swore that he would maintain it and toit
> > break it meant he no longer could sit as King. Well, he broke
> > and unleashed a brutal persecution against any that stood in hisruthless
> > way. King James II, his Papist brother, continued it. Richard
> > Cameron and other faithful Covenanters resisted the King and
> > continued to worship God as He had commanded and refused to go
> > with the King's usurpation. The civil magistrates became
> > tyrants and used all means necessary (torturing the laypeople,imprisonment,
> > (also known as the cess), confiscation of property,
> > rape of women, and murder) to hunt down and kill the ministersof
> > Christ that still held the Covenants. King Charles passed theActs
> > Recissory stating that the Covenants were "seditious,treasonable,
> > and against his crown, the very covenant he had sworn to uphold,he
> > very covenant that defined him as a lawful civil magistrate and
> > allowed him to be lawfully on the throne. At the Revolution
> > Settlement, King William did not rescind the Acts Recessiory and
> > set up the Church of Scotland on his terms. Only theWestminster
> > Confession of Faith was allowed to be the standard of the churchof
> > without allowance of the others. When he and parliament (most
> > who were part of the persecution) had laid out how the Church ofand
> > Scotland was to be restored, he called a GA the following year
> > told them how they were to be structured.the
> > The few remaining Covenanters protested and would not join
> > vast majority of already sold out/indulged ministers (these werespare
> > those that made compromises to King Charles & King James to
> > their lives, in exchange they had to submit to the Bishops andto
> > that the Covenants were treasonable and they held no allegiance
> > them, among other things). When 3 ministers from theCovenanters
> > tried to persuade the other ministers to press the King torescind
> > the Acts Recissory and renew the Solemn League and Covenant and1649,
> > the Standards the charter of the Church as it was during 1638-
> > the 3 were rebuked and scolded. The 3 submitted and joined thePresbyterian
> > Revolution Church and the most prolonged division in
> > history began. That being the Covenanters, that remainedfaithful
> > to the Church of Scotland and the Westminster Standards of 1638-descend
> > vs. the Revolution Church, which was a brand new Presbyterian
> > with her own new constitution and charter.
> > All but two Presbyterian churches in the United States
> > from this Revolution Settlement Church (In Europe it is asimilar
> > situation). The two that do not are the Reformed PresbyterianRPCNA
> > Church of North America (RPCNA) and the Reformed Presbytery of
> > America (RPNA).
> > Here is where we get to the heart of your question. The
> > held to the Covenanters' testimony until they changed theirSolemn
> > constitution in the mid-1800's and no longer held that the
> > League & Covenant was binding upon the United States of America,the
> > although I am not sure if they still believe it is on the United
> > Kingdom. They also adopted other items that were contrary to
> > Standards of Westminster and further broke their Covenantedoath.
> > They continue to believe in the ordinance of Covenanting, sothis
> > therefore they call themselves Covenanters because of that, but
> > do not hold to what the original Covenanters held to. During
> > defection of the RPCNA, one of their ministers along with somedesire
> > Church Officers protested this defection. When there was no
> > on the part of the Synod to repent of their Covenant breaking,they
> > left the RPCNA to continue the faithful Covenanted Church andCovenanted
> > the Reformed Presbytery of North America (RPNA). The leading
> > was David Steele. These officers sought to maintain the
> > Testimony and to continue to uphold the Covenanted Reformationof
> > against all defection and back-sliding.
> > So, when the Puritan Reformed Church in Edmonton rediscovered
> > these Covenanted truths and decided to adopt them and thereby
> > to the faithful paths of true Biblical Presbyterianism they
> > of their participation as a Church of being part of the schism
> > the Revolution Church/Settlement and of having backslidden fromthe
> > Covenanted Second Reformation (1638-1649) and having adoptedElders
> > doctrines contrary to the Covenanted Second Reformation Church.
> > Many decried them and wrote extensive papers against these
> > and were named "Steelites" by their opponents for beingfollowers
> > David Steele. Many attributing the doctrinal distinctives as
> > and made up by David Steele. Only a very few of our opponentshold
> > recognize that we are Camerionian Covenanters, i.e. those who
> > still that the Solemn League and Covenant is binding upon theUK,
> > USA, Canada, and Australia (all of these being offspring of UKand
> > since the Solemn League & Covenant bound all of her posterity,so
> > then these nations are so bound). I have all of this (thewww.espanol.albanycrpc.org
> > of Westminster) translated into Spanish:
> > I am a member of the RPNA and live in Albany NY. Our doctrine
> > NOT new as even a brief glance of history pre-1700's will mostis
> > readily demonstrate. The main problem in Presbyterianism today
> > the rampant mindset of American pluralism and toleration ofother
> > religions. This is most visible in the revision of theWestminster
> > Standards in 1782, of ch. 23. In there it is notPresbyterianism
> > that is of divine right and to be the only recognized Churchform
> > government in the Country nor the Westminster doctrines either,
> > se. Instead the new revision states that the government willNow
> > acknowledge ALL Christian denominations and protect them all.
> > the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, the Presbyterian Church inthe
> > America, and another (I cannot recall which) are the larger of
> > Presbyterian Churches that hold to this. Most of the smallerPRC,
> > Presbyterian churches do not, including the RPNA, RPCNA, the
> > and other smaller ones. Although they are all offspring of the1649.
> > Revolution Church (Except the RPCNA & RPNA).
> > The RPNA seeks to promote unity in the body of Christ WITHOUT
> > compromising the Covenanted Reformation Attainments of 1638-
> > The Church of then achieved a Covenanted Uniformity of religionand
> > wherein all in the 3 kingdoms were of One Doctrine, One Worship,
> > Government, and One Discipline and based on the Solemn League
> > Covenant, which Covenant was in keeping with the HolyScriptures.
> > Sure not ALL in the UK did join in this unity, but it was thebrief
> > reality and fulfillment of John 17. This Covenant was promotedand
> > upheld by all the Westminster Divines, including the Scottishto
> > Comissioners: Alexander Henderson, George Gillespie, Samuel
> > Rutherford & etc. One of the English Covenanters that is well
> > known, Christopher Love died in prison under Oliver Cromwell,
> > because he refused to renounce the Covenant. The King was about
> > martyr Samuel Rutherford for the same, but God took him a fewdays
> > before the King could kill him.at
> > It is a hard stand for us to be separated from our brethren
> > this time, but we believe, as did the Covenanters of old thatcalls
> > loyalty to God and His Truth is to be valued and upheld above
> > to compromise for the sake of a shaky and covenant breakingunity
> > NOT based on that maintaince of Truth, even if it means a low-murderous
> > intensity persecution or ridiculing on the part of fellow
> > The Covenanters during the "Killing Times" suffered more from
> > Indulged Presbyterians than by the ravenous King and his
> > soldiers.The
> > Below are links to historical works written by ministers.
> > first two are written by ministers of the Reformed Presbyterianthe
> > Church of Scotland, the sister church to the RPCNA, back in the
> > 1800's. The first is brief summary of the history and rise of
> > Reformed Presbyterians (another term used to describeCovenanters)
> > and the second outlines the reality of the Revolution SettlementCovenanters
> > what it brought about. The third is a work written by
> > in 1806 and what they stood for and why they remained separate(you
> > will find that what the RPNA holds to today is exactly what theyto
> > in 1806 and this PRE-DATES David Steele). The last one is the
> > official history from the beginning of the First Reformation up
> > and including the founding of the RPNA under David Steele. Itis
> > one of the Covenanter's Standards today (I plan to translatethis
> > late next year or early 2007, if the Lord wills and gives me thethis
> > ability).
> > http://www.covenanter.org/RPScotland/Principles/lecture1.htm
> > http://www.covenanter.org/RPScotland/Principles/lecture4.htm
> > www.covenanter.org/RefPres/shortaccount.htm
> > www.gutenberg.org/dirs/1/3/2/0/13200/13200.txt
> > Now there is another Covenanter group, which the Moderador of
> > group belongs too, but they do not have any Church Officers,
> > although we in the RPNA love these brethren very dearly and we
> > friends. Gerry (the Moderator), I count as a friend and fellowtogether, I
> > upholder of the Covenanter Testimony. Why were are not
> > rather not touch that here, now. Suffice it to say we are a lotthat
> > closer than many think, IMO. I thought I would just mention
> > however, to be fair that the RPNA are not the only Camerionianseems
> > Covenanters still around.
> > I know that my post will generate many upset posts and make re-
> > stir debates long debated on this e-group once again. That
> > be the legacy of the schism of the Revolution Church that
> > the Covenanted Church of Scotland BIBLICALLY established andthis
> > promoted by faithful General Assemblies between 1638-1649, to
> > day. Not until the decendents of the Revolution Churchrecognize
> > their continuing schism and covenant-breaking from the lawfullyand
> > faithfully established Church, established upon Biblicalexamples
> > true Covenanted Reformation, and repent of it and rejoin the
> > Covenanted Church of Scotland, as we of the RPNA have, will the
> > debate end.
> > I hope that aids to answer your question. I am sure many
> > will arise, however.sigue
> > Hermano, lo siento sí se oye duro mi carta, pero la Verdad
> > siendo atacado, y soy firme en mantenerlo. Por otro tema,¿conoce
> > Ud a Ismael Nova? Se comunicó conmigo, pero su correoelectrónico
> > no fue aceptado cuando le conteste. Sí lo conoce, porque es dekeeping
> > Colombia y mencionó que es de una iglesia Presbiteriana pequeña,
> > como Ud lo mencionó, ¿favor de decirle que me escriba de nuevo?
> > También me encantaría tener díagolo con Ud y otros hermanos de
> > Colombia. He aquí mí correo personal: PuritanPresbyterian@y...
> > No offense brethren, I am bilingual and always speak both
> > languages. I do not believe in American assimilation nor in
> > my language and culture in my house alone and private. I rejectcomes
> > that part of the Right Wing rubbish (to put it mildly) that
> > across the talk radio and by other American Nationalists (and Iwas
> > a U.S. Marine for 8 yrs), I know who were the first immigrantsSteelites
> > pilgrims.
> > Assimilation, HAH!!!
> > Yours in Christ Jesus,
> > in whom this Darwinian
> > separation of peoples
> > is null and void,
> > Edgar Ibarra
> > Communicant Member
> > Reformed Presbytery of North America
> > Albany, New York
> > --- In
> > firstname.lastname@example.org, "theophilus_murray"
> > <theophilus_murray@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello, I am new here. I am from Colombia and I belong to a
> > > Presbyterian Church in my country.
> > >
> > > I would like to know what is the different between the
> > and
> > > the other covenanters?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
- --- In email@example.com, "Whit"
> > First Thomas M'Crie, the church biographer that re-introduced the
> Presbyterians of his day to John Knox, also the author of the History
> of the Reformation in Spain.
> Where can I purchase that book? SWRB?
How to Find a Book
Reformed Publishers Online
I have always wanted to read
> about Spain's relation to the reforming Church. (I was there lastyear
> and could not find any good Covenanter church or society. Hence, I
> elected for private worship and didn't attend church that Sunday.)