Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: Steelites

Expand Messages
  • trygvesson@aol.com
    In a message dated 11/6/2005 8:57:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... debates long debated on this e-group once again.
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 6, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      In a message dated 11/6/2005 8:57:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, lbump@... writes:
      >> I know that my post will generate many upset posts and make re-stir debates long debated on this e-group once again.<<

      "Not upset, just disappointed that you continue to misrepresent us as willful rebels rather than brothers seeking to be true to God and His Covenant(s), properly understood and applied.."
       
      Edgar,
       
      Aye, I must agree with Elder Bump, and join him in being disappointed that you continue to misrepresent us as willful rebels rather than brothers seeking to be true to God and His Covenant.
       
      I would also add that the idea that some number of folks decided in the 1990s to declare themselves the real RP church and castigate all other historic confessional Presbyterian bodies to be backslidden covenant breakers, would be extremely funny were it not so very sad.
       
      I have heard report that when one of the Presbyterian denominations in Scotland received word in the early 2000s that there was a small group of people in Edmonton Canada declaring themselves to be the real Covenanters and only faithful Presbyterian church upholding the covenants, that their general assembly actually broke out in prolonged laughter.
       
      Edgar, perhaps this illustration might help you understand how this looks both funny and also sad to someone such as myself who grew in the faith by reading the writings and histories of the reformation:
       
      This is like Bob the dogsledder from Lake Laberge, Yukon, suddenly deciding he is really the last true spiritual descendant of the last Russian Czar Nikolai Alexandrovich Romanov II. He further declares himself to be the true Czar Expatriate, the only legitimate and faithful Russian government, and demands all folk descended of Russian citizenship all throughout the world, no matter their actual country of birth or citizenship, and who's great great grandfathers wrote Cyrillic, to submit to their great great Russian ancestors debt of fealty to the Czar and by extension to him. All this, simply because he declares that he philosophically and spiritually holds to Nikolai Alexandrovich Romanov II's Czar beliefs.
       
      It would be like the guy with a smidgen of French blood who runs the local convenience store down the road from me declaring himself and a handful of others to be the true Huguenots simply because they stumble upon the Protestant Huguenots constitution and happen to agree with it, and they then proceed to declare any remaining Huguenots in France to be mere pretenders. No, what such a thing would make them, is a handful of Americans who happen to agree with Huguenot principles. Such would not at all make them the REAL Huguenot church!
       
      To my point, you are simply incapable of really upholding the SL&C. No, you disagree? Well, how are YOU really and actively upholding the SL&C and NC today? By being the discussion forum police? Do you think that is what the Scots really had in mind, or what the document demands? For an answer, I want more than yet another suggested link or another lengthy cut and paste job in terms of providing mere lip service. If you have the audacity to make the repeated accusations you make against us and continually accuse us as knowing covenant breakers and backsiders, then I think it is entirely fair to turn this around and ask the question, and I want to really know in your own words how YOU and those you know personally in the RPNA are really and actively upholding the SL&C and NC today. Not just lip service on the Internet by being the SL&C e-mail police, but how is this being done on a day to day basis?
       
      What are you doing according to your place and calling, in this common cause of religion, liberty, and peace of the kingdoms, to assist and defend all those that enter into or have entered into the League and Covenant? What are you currently doing for reformation and defense of religion, the honour and happiness of the King, and the peace and safety, of the three kingdoms of Scotland, England, and Ireland?
       
      Answer this honestly for yourself, not using a hermeneutic to interpret the obligations of the covenant that is similar in execution to how the Framework Hypothesis is used by the liberals to interpret Genesis, but really and honestly grammatically historically look at the parties and outlined obligations of the covenant, and explain to me how you actually fulfill those obligations.
       
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Christopher Coombes
      Lynchburg Reformed Presbyterian Fellowship,
      Lynchburg, VA
      Member, Triangle RPC
      RPCNA


                                                                      _
                                                                     / )
                                                   (\__/)         ( (
                                                    )    (           ) )
                                                 ={      }=       / /
                                                    )     `-------/ /
                                                   (               /
                                                    \              |
                                                    ,'\       ,    ,'
                                                    `-'\  ,---\   | \
                                                       _) )    `. \ /
                                                      (__/       ) )
                                                                (_/
    • Larry Bump
      My first ancestor on this continent (Fortune, 1621) was Edouad Boumpasse, French Huguenot refugee from France, through Leyden then London. Maybe I could pull
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 6, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        My first ancestor on this continent (Fortune, 1621) was Edouad Boumpasse,
        French Huguenot refugee from France, through Leyden then London.

        Maybe I could pull this off?

        Wait a minute, does this mean I should be bound to any French covenants as
        well as Scot? This could get confusing.

        Larry

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <trygvesson@...>

        > It would be like the guy with a smidgen of French blood who runs the
        local
        > convenience store down the road from me declaring himself and a handful
        of
        > others to be the true Huguenots simply because they stumble upon the
        Protestant
        > Huguenots constitution and happen to agree with it, and they then proceed
        to
        > declare any remaining Huguenots in France to be mere pretenders. No, what
        > such a thing would make them, is a handful of Americans who happen to
        agree with
        > Huguenot principles. Such would not at all make them the REAL Huguenot
        > church!




        --
        Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
        Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
        Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 267.12.5 - Release Date: 10/24/2005
      • gmw
        ... My first ancestor on this continent (Fortune, 1621) was Edouad Boumpasse, French Huguenot refugee from France, through Leyden then London. Maybe I could
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 6, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Larry Bump wrote:
          -----
          My first ancestor on this continent (Fortune, 1621) was Edouad Boumpasse,
          French Huguenot refugee from France, through Leyden then London.

          Maybe I could pull this off?

          Wait a minute, does this mean I should be bound to any French covenants as
          well as Scot? This could get confusing.

          Larry
          ------

          Theophilus,

          What you are now witnessing is an elder of the Reformed Presbyterian
          Church of North America (called Covenanters) mocking the descending
          obligations of national covenants, one of the distinctive doctrines of
          their Church when it first came to America. This phenomena is something
          that puzzles me. They hold to the Westminster Confession of Faith, and
          yet testify against it, and they can assert the descending obligations
          of the National Covenant and the Solemn League and Covenant on a web
          page ( http://www.bright.net/~covvie/who.html -- "Two basic covenants
          we're still bound by are the National Covenant of 1638
          <http://www.swrb.com/newslett/actualnls/NatCov.htm> and the Solemn
          League and Covenant
          <http://www.swrb.com/newslett/actualnls/CRTSol.htm>."), while an elder
          from that very congregation mocks the same doctrine.

          Fortunately, elders mocking have no bearing on whether what they are
          mocking is truth or not. Matthew 26:57, 67, 68

          Those labelled Steelites own the original Westminster Standards, and the
          descending obligation of the Covenants, without testifying against them
          or mocking them, like the RPCNA used to do when they first came to this
          country, even after the "Steelites" left them (the original split had
          more to do with the issue of voluntary association with people of other
          religious professions, and the refusal of the RPCNA to even discuss this
          issue).

          See:
          http://truecovenanter.com/deedcons.html

          http://reformedpresbytery.com/books/rpcna/rpcna.htm

          gmw.
        • Larry Bump
          ... From: gmw ... No, you see one mocking the continued mis-application of them. There is a significant difference. I do not
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 6, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "gmw" <raging.calvinist@...>
            >
            > Theophilus,
            >
            > What you are now witnessing is an elder of the Reformed Presbyterian
            > Church of North America (called Covenanters) mocking the descending
            > obligations of national covenants,

            No, you see one mocking the continued mis-application of them. There is a
            significant difference.
            I do not mock the Standards, but the application of obligations of related
            persons of the past to the present.

            I do not even mock those making that mis-application, as you should be able
            to see, just the poor philosophy of them. I really do love Edgar as a
            brother; that's why I am disappointed in his presentation.

            Can you see this difference? If so, now what? If not, why not?

            Larry Bump



            --
            Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
            Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
            Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 267.12.5 - Release Date: 10/24/2005
          • trygvesson@aol.com
            In a message dated 11/6/2005 5:58:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, lbump@bright.net writes: I do not even mock those making that mis-application, as you should be
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 6, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              In a message dated 11/6/2005 5:58:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, lbump@... writes:
              "I do not even mock those making that mis-application, as you should be able to see, just the poor philosophy of them.  I really do love Edgar as a brother; that's why I am disappointed in his presentation.

              Can you see this difference?  If so, now what?  If not, why not?

              Larry Bump"
               
               
              Aye, I must add my wholehearted agreement with this above, as it is exactly as I regard this entire issue.
               
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              Christopher Coombes
              Lynchburg Reformed Presbyterian Fellowship,
              Lynchburg, VA
              Member, Triangle RPC
              RPCNA


                                                                              _
                                                                             / )
                                                           (\__/)         ( (
                                                            )    (           ) )
                                                         ={      }=       / /
                                                            )     `-------/ /
                                                           (               /
                                                            \              |
                                                            ,'\       ,    ,'
                                                            `-'\  ,---\   | \
                                                               _) )    `. \ /
                                                              (__/       ) )
                                                                        (_/
            • Whit
              ... Boumpasse, ... covenants as ... I ve wondered the same (obligation to the French Confession or other Huguenot subordinate standards and covenants) as I
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 10, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Bump"
                <lbump@b...> wrote:
                >
                > My first ancestor on this continent (Fortune, 1621) was Edouad
                Boumpasse,
                > French Huguenot refugee from France, through Leyden then London.
                >
                > Maybe I could pull this off?
                >
                > Wait a minute, does this mean I should be bound to any French
                covenants as
                > well as Scot? This could get confusing.
                >
                I've wondered the same (obligation to the French Confession or other
                Huguenot subordinate standards and covenants) as I also have Huguenot
                ancestry (through Forsyth who came through England).

                Whit
              • Fred blahous
                G day Whit. Since France was under James VI at the time, perhaps they would be covered by the National Covenant. Probably not though, since it doesn,t seem to
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 12, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  G'day Whit.

                  Since France was under James VI at the time, perhaps they would be
                  covered by the National Covenant. Probably not though, since it
                  doesn,t seem to have been sworn outside Scotland. Is there still a
                  Huguenot Church under the Belgic Confession? I don't think the denom
                  exists anymore.

                  All the best,
                  Fred.

                  --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Whit"
                  <covie_pres.1646@v...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Bump"
                  > <lbump@b...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > My first ancestor on this continent (Fortune, 1621) was Edouad
                  > Boumpasse,
                  > > French Huguenot refugee from France, through Leyden then London.
                  > >
                  > > Maybe I could pull this off?
                  > >
                  > > Wait a minute, does this mean I should be bound to any French
                  > covenants as
                  > > well as Scot? This could get confusing.
                  > >
                  > I've wondered the same (obligation to the French Confession or
                  other
                  > Huguenot subordinate standards and covenants) as I also have
                  Huguenot
                  > ancestry (through Forsyth who came through England).
                  >
                  > Whit
                  >
                • Whit
                  The only Huguenot church in existence to my belief is the one in Charleston, SC. Not sure how compliant to the attainments of the original Huguenots though.
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 17, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    The only Huguenot church in existence to my belief is the one in
                    Charleston, SC. Not sure how compliant to the attainments of the
                    original Huguenots though.

                    Whit

                    --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Fred blahous"
                    <fritzbau@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > G'day Whit.
                    >
                    > Since France was under James VI at the time, perhaps they would be
                    > covered by the National Covenant. Probably not though, since it
                    > doesn,t seem to have been sworn outside Scotland. Is there still a
                    > Huguenot Church under the Belgic Confession? I don't think the
                    denom
                    > exists anymore.
                    >
                    > All the best,
                    > Fred.
                    >
                    > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Whit"
                    > <covie_pres.1646@v...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Bump"
                    > > <lbump@b...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > My first ancestor on this continent (Fortune, 1621) was Edouad
                    > > Boumpasse,
                    > > > French Huguenot refugee from France, through Leyden then
                    London.
                    > > >
                    > > > Maybe I could pull this off?
                    > > >
                    > > > Wait a minute, does this mean I should be bound to any French
                    > > covenants as
                    > > > well as Scot? This could get confusing.
                    > > >
                    > > I've wondered the same (obligation to the French Confession or
                    > other
                    > > Huguenot subordinate standards and covenants) as I also have
                    > Huguenot
                    > > ancestry (through Forsyth who came through England).
                    > >
                    > > Whit
                    > >
                    >
                  • Edgar A. Ibarra Jr.
                    Actually the Huguenot Church denomination does exist in France. Then there is one that sounds conservative in the USA in South Carolina that Whit mentioned:
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 17, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Actually the Huguenot Church denomination does exist in France.
                      Then there is one that sounds conservative in the USA in South
                      Carolina that Whit mentioned:
                      http://www.frenchhuguenotchurch.org/main.html



                      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Whit"
                      <covie_pres.1646@v...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The only Huguenot church in existence to my belief is the one in
                      > Charleston, SC. Not sure how compliant to the attainments of the
                      > original Huguenots though.
                      >
                      > Whit
                      >
                      > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Fred blahous"
                      > <fritzbau@y...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > G'day Whit.
                      > >
                      > > Since France was under James VI at the time, perhaps they would
                      be
                      > > covered by the National Covenant. Probably not though, since it
                      > > doesn,t seem to have been sworn outside Scotland. Is there still
                      a
                      > > Huguenot Church under the Belgic Confession? I don't think the
                      > denom
                      > > exists anymore.
                      > >
                      > > All the best,
                      > > Fred.
                      > >
                      > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Whit"
                      > > <covie_pres.1646@v...> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Bump"
                      > > > <lbump@b...> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > My first ancestor on this continent (Fortune, 1621) was
                      Edouad
                      > > > Boumpasse,
                      > > > > French Huguenot refugee from France, through Leyden then
                      > London.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Maybe I could pull this off?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Wait a minute, does this mean I should be bound to any
                      French
                      > > > covenants as
                      > > > > well as Scot? This could get confusing.
                      > > > >
                      > > > I've wondered the same (obligation to the French Confession or
                      > > other
                      > > > Huguenot subordinate standards and covenants) as I also have
                      > > Huguenot
                      > > > ancestry (through Forsyth who came through England).
                      > > >
                      > > > Whit
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Whit
                      While I was only referring to North America, Edgar is indeed right about the Huguenot church in France. Whit ... the ... would ... it ... still ... Bump ...
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 18, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        While I was only referring to North America, Edgar is indeed right
                        about the Huguenot church in France.

                        Whit

                        --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Edgar A. Ibarra
                        Jr." <puritanpresbyterian@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Actually the Huguenot Church denomination does exist in France.
                        > Then there is one that sounds conservative in the USA in South
                        > Carolina that Whit mentioned:
                        > http://www.frenchhuguenotchurch.org/main.html
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Whit"
                        > <covie_pres.1646@v...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > The only Huguenot church in existence to my belief is the one in
                        > > Charleston, SC. Not sure how compliant to the attainments of
                        the
                        > > original Huguenots though.
                        > >
                        > > Whit
                        > >
                        > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Fred blahous"
                        > > <fritzbau@y...> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > G'day Whit.
                        > > >
                        > > > Since France was under James VI at the time, perhaps they
                        would
                        > be
                        > > > covered by the National Covenant. Probably not though, since
                        it
                        > > > doesn,t seem to have been sworn outside Scotland. Is there
                        still
                        > a
                        > > > Huguenot Church under the Belgic Confession? I don't think the
                        > > denom
                        > > > exists anymore.
                        > > >
                        > > > All the best,
                        > > > Fred.
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Whit"
                        > > > <covie_pres.1646@v...> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Larry
                        Bump"
                        > > > > <lbump@b...> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > My first ancestor on this continent (Fortune, 1621) was
                        > Edouad
                        > > > > Boumpasse,
                        > > > > > French Huguenot refugee from France, through Leyden then
                        > > London.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Maybe I could pull this off?
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Wait a minute, does this mean I should be bound to any
                        > French
                        > > > > covenants as
                        > > > > > well as Scot? This could get confusing.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > I've wondered the same (obligation to the French Confession
                        or
                        > > > other
                        > > > > Huguenot subordinate standards and covenants) as I also have
                        > > > Huguenot
                        > > > > ancestry (through Forsyth who came through England).
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Whit
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.