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Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Ill-will, the New Topic, the so called RoP

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  • Larry Bump
    ... From: persons1n3 ... Dude, first you need to take some language and grammar classes. Then, some writing and logic. Then you may
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 4, 2005
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "persons1n3" <persons1n3@...>

      > Where was the Church for this "over thousand year period?"
      > Isn't "over a thousand years" longer than the time since the
      > Reformational '1517' Sola Fide inception? If you are of good-will,
      > as Christ Jesus My Lord desires, you will respond.

      Dude, first you need to take some language and grammar classes. Then, some
      writing and logic. Then you may be able to ask coherent questions.

      Anyway, the established church before the Reformation inhered in the morass
      of the Catholic Church. Thanks to God, His people left when the apostasy
      went over the line!

      Larry



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    • Matthew Winzer
      As good Hilary said, even in his time the church had ceased to be found in the institution, and was to be sought for in the wilderness. Or is that a tradition
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 4, 2005
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        As good Hilary said, even in his time the church had ceased to be found in the institution, and was to be sought for in the wilderness.  Or is that a tradition that Roman Catholicism repudiates?
         
        Yours sincerely,
        Matthew Winzer
         
         
        Where was the Church for this "over thousand year period?"
        Isn't "over a thousand years" longer than the time since the
        Reformational '1517' Sola Fide inception? If you are of good-will,
        as Christ Jesus My Lord desires, you will respond.

        persons1n3
      • persons1n3
        Matt, Thank you for your good-willed input into this dialogue. I am not sure why you would regard the opinion of Hilary, as authoritative. What kind of
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 5, 2005
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          Matt,

          Thank you for your good-willed input into this dialogue.

          I am not sure why you would regard the opinion of Hilary, as
          authoritative. What kind of authority did Hilary have, do you suppose,
          to make such a comment?

          In history, leaders of the Church, even the likes of Peter, who is a
          saint (I do not think I need to tell you that; but it is for the
          benefit of others) and an Apostle, ruled as bishop of Antioch, before
          he ended up in Rome, where he died. That is to say, if you regard the
          Church as necessarily having to be in a single place, in order for it
          to be extant, history will not bear this out, even in RC'ism. It's
          leadership can move, of necessity, even to the wilderness. Correct me
          if I am mistaken, but I do not see Hilary saying that all its
          presbyters were dead...i.e, no leadership.

          Fair enough?

          persons1n3

          --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew Winzer"
          <mwinzer@p...> wrote:
          > As good Hilary said, even in his time the church had ceased to be
          found in the institution, and was to be sought for in the wilderness.
          Or is that a tradition that Roman Catholicism repudiates?
          >
          > Yours sincerely,
          > Matthew Winzer
          >
          >
          > Where was the Church for this "over thousand year period?"
          > Isn't "over a thousand years" longer than the time since the
          > Reformational '1517' Sola Fide inception? If you are of good-will,
          > as Christ Jesus My Lord desires, you will respond.
          >
          > persons1n3
        • mwinzer
          ... Please feel free to call me Matthew. If Hilary s opinion doesn t contribute to the tradition of the church, why should the opinion of any of the fathers.
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 5, 2005
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            > Matt,
            >
            > Thank you for your good-willed input into this dialogue.
            >
            > I am not sure why you would regard the opinion of Hilary, as
            > authoritative. What kind of authority did Hilary have, do you
            > suppose, to make such a comment?

            Please feel free to call me Matthew.

            If Hilary's opinion doesn't contribute to the tradition of the church, why
            should the opinion of any of the fathers. He was declared a doctor of the
            Church by pope Pius IX., if memory serves me correctly.

            > In history, leaders of the Church, even the likes of Peter, who is
            > a saint (I do not think I need to tell you that; but it is for the
            > benefit of others) and an Apostle, ruled as bishop of Antioch,
            > before he ended up in Rome, where he died. That is to say, if you
            > regard the Church as necessarily having to be in a single place, in
            > order for it to be extant, history will not bear this out, even in
            > RC'ism. It's leadership can move, of necessity, even to the
            > wilderness. Correct me if I am mistaken, but I do not see Hilary
            > saying that all its presbyters were dead...i.e, no leadership.

            By wilderness and institution he was not referring to particular places.
            The point is, that he himself saw the instituted church, with its
            leadership, as corrupted even in the 4th century.

            Yours sincerely,
            Matthew Winzer
          • persons1n3
            Matthew, my apologies...no disrespect intended. I wasn t sure which Hilary you were talking about. There are quite a few that go by that name. What I would
            Message 5 of 5 , Jul 6, 2005
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              Matthew, my apologies...no disrespect intended.

              I wasn't sure which Hilary you were talking about. There are quite a
              few that go by that name. What I would prefer to see is tha actual
              quote. Things can get distorted, when working off memory. Hilary as
              doctor of the Church, does not, by virtue of the title, guarantee he
              is speaking authoritatively. My hunch is, that is he said what you
              claim, it was his opnion. He would definitlely not leave "the
              Church." In my Lord Jesus Christ's day, the Church was corrupt as
              well, to the point of murdering its Lord.

              persons1n3


              --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "mwinzer"
              <mwinzer@p...> wrote:
              > > Matt,
              > >
              > > Thank you for your good-willed input into this dialogue.
              > >
              > > I am not sure why you would regard the opinion of Hilary, as
              > > authoritative. What kind of authority did Hilary have, do you
              > > suppose, to make such a comment?
              >
              > Please feel free to call me Matthew.
              >
              > If Hilary's opinion doesn't contribute to the tradition of the
              church, why
              > should the opinion of any of the fathers. He was declared a
              doctor of the
              > Church by pope Pius IX., if memory serves me correctly.
              >
              > > In history, leaders of the Church, even the likes of Peter, who
              is
              > > a saint (I do not think I need to tell you that; but it is for
              the
              > > benefit of others) and an Apostle, ruled as bishop of Antioch,
              > > before he ended up in Rome, where he died. That is to say, if
              you
              > > regard the Church as necessarily having to be in a single
              place, in
              > > order for it to be extant, history will not bear this out, even
              in
              > > RC'ism. It's leadership can move, of necessity, even to the
              > > wilderness. Correct me if I am mistaken, but I do not see
              Hilary
              > > saying that all its presbyters were dead...i.e, no leadership.
              >
              > By wilderness and institution he was not referring to particular
              places.
              > The point is, that he himself saw the instituted church, with its
              > leadership, as corrupted even in the 4th century.
              >
              > Yours sincerely,
              > Matthew Winzer
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