Re: "My Mormon Encounter" by Joseph Y. Lee
- It seems a little strange to me, that you would spend time
witnessing to someone when you are unfamiliar with their beliefs. It
would be a bit like witnessing to Jews without having any
familiarity of the Talmud or Gershon's legal code. Wouldn't you be
more effective if you read and understood the book of Mormon?
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, josephylee@a...
> My Mormon Encounteratheist.
> by Joseph Yosuk Lee
> It was spring of 1995. I met two Mormons outside my apartment.
> They were witnessing to me and my Irvine Valley College friend.
> I showed them a lot of errors in the Book of Mormon, and I blew
> those Mormons away. They were shocked that I knew a lot about
> their errors and contradictions, and they suggested to me that
> I talked to Mr. Johnson [alias name], the lawyer of the Latter
> -Day Saints Institute. Mr. Johnson is the head honcho of the
> Mormon cult at Irvine. He read the Book of Mormon and the New
> Testament 50 times. He studied the Book of Mormon and the
> Bible eight hours a day, and I am going to present my
> insignificant amount of knowledge to him.
> I said, "Mr. Johnson, do you know that the Book of Mormon has
> thousands of errors?"
> He said, "Of course, and I also believe that the Bible has
> errors too. I do not believe that the Bible is inerrant. Even
> some evangelical don't believe that the Bible is inerrant. "
> "Then how do you know what the Book of Mormon said is the
> Word of God when you read it?"
> "I know that the Book of Mormon is the Word of God when
> Holy Spirit gives me a powerful and burning sensation in my
> bosom, and I knew at that time what the Book of Mormon said
> is true."
> "Mr. Johnson, I heard a voice, which claimed to be from God.
> The voice said that I will win three Noble Prizes in physics
> and that I will marry a beautiful Korean Christian wife, who
> is a virgin. I also had a powerful and burning sensation in
> my bosom and throughout my body from a mysterious force, and
> I concluded that it is not from God. Does it occur to you
> that Joseph Smith and I never heard Gods voice but actually
> heard a voice from a demon?"
> "Well, Joseph Smith heard Gods voice and saw God. You claimed
> to hear Gods voice but didn't actually see him."
> "Did the Bible say that anyone, who saw God, dies."
> "Moses saw God, and he did not die. How can you explain that
> error in the Bible?"
> "Well, if you read Hebrews 11:27, you will see that Moses
> experienced the invisible God and never actually saw God
> the Father."
> "Well, lets look at the translation from NIV and the New
> Jerusalem Bible. I want you to know the New Jerusalem Bible
> is a highly regarded translation of the Bible by most
> theologians. By the way, have you ever heard about the New
> Jerusalem Bible?"
> "No, and should I really hear about it?"
> "Why, of course. I just cant believe that your pastor kept
> you in the dark about the New Jerusalem Bible. The New
> Jerusalem Bible is considered to be a more superior translation
> compared to NIV. Well, lets see. If you read John 1:18, it
> said that no one can see God and live, but if you read the
> New Jerusalem Bible, it said that there is no way to translate
> it. So, they left it blank. Oh my goodness! If you look at
> another verse in the NIV Bible, it said that Moses saw God,
> who is invisible. On the other hand, the New Jerusalem Bible
> said that Moses saw God as if he were invisible. Now, you see
> a huge difference between both translations."
> "Wait a minute. I don't see any major differences about Moses
> seeing the invisible God."
> "Obviously, you are not an English major."
> Although Mr. Johnson insulted me, I was not angered by what he
> said to me. I can see that Mr. Johnson is an excellent debater
> and a scholar.
> "Joseph, I am telling you your Bible has errors."
> "Mr. Johnson, do you believe that Jesus is God?"
> "Yes, I do."
> "Then, how do you know that Jesus is God if the Bible has
> "Well, I know that Jesus is God through the second testimony
> of Jesus Christ through the Book of Mormon."
> "You said that the Book of Mormon has thousand of errors."
> "But they are grammatical errors."
> "Mr. Johnson, if there exist grammatical errors in the Book
> of Mormon and the Bible, then this implies that there exist
> errors in its doctrine."
> "Joseph. Do you remember what I tell you? I said that Holy
> Spirit gives me a powerful and burning sensation in my bosom.
> At that point, I know the Book of Mormon is true. The Book of
> Mormon has grammatical errors. It contains no doctrinal errors."
> "Well, I read some parts of the Book of Mormon, and it said
> that there exists a King Benjamin and Joseph Smith, later on,
> changed it saying that there exists a King Mosiah. I hardly
> call that a grammatical error. In fact, I considered it a
> factual and historical error."
> "So, do you really want to see the original writings of the
> 1830 version of the Book of Mormon? I have it here in my office.
> We can read all of the grammatical errors together... Joseph.
> Joseph. I know all of your arguments. They are not new to me.
> I knew them all before you came to me. Try to present something
> new to me. Kent, [a brother in Christ friend], presented me with
> many good questions and observations about the Bible and Book of
> Mormon. Why cant you do the same?. I am telling you that you got
> to read the Book of Mormon."
> "I will think about it."
> "Then I will see you later."
> We shook hands, and we left. Later on, I called Mr. Johnson and
> left a message on his phone answering machine.
> "Mr. Johnson, if you want to talk to me again, it has to be in
> my terms. I am willing to talk to you at another time if you
> are willing to talk to me and to my pastor. I find you
> intelligent, but I really don't believe that you are a Christian
> or a Mormon. You and Tony are both alike when both you and Tony
> are intelligent. You believe that the Book of Mormon or the Bible
> has errors, and I am telling you. If there are some grammatical
> errors in the Bible or Book of Mormon, then there are errors in
> its doctrines. Whenever I talked to you, you talked like an
> If I hurt your feelings, I am sorry. May God be with you. Good-bye."
> The next day, Mr. Johnson called me back.
> "Joseph, you called me an atheist. I want to clarify that Pastor
> Chuck Smith thinks that there are errors in the Bible." [Please
> note that Pastor Chuck Smith does believe that the Bible is
> "If he believes that there are errors in the Bible, then I guess
> is not a Christian."unique."
> "Are you saying that Chuck Smith is not a Christian?"
> "Mr. Johnson, I don't worship Chuck Smith as my god. He is only
> a human being."
> As I stun Mr. Johnson that I don't respect Pastor Chuck Smith, I
> said, "Mr. Johnson, Joseph Smiths and my experiences are not
> "Joseph. I can see that you were devastated by what I have told
> You probably went to your pastor getting his emotional supportfrom
> your lack of security in your faith."
> "Mr. Johnson."
> "Call me Richard."
> "I find you very rude."
> "Hold on for a moment. You called me and Pastor Chuck Smith an
> "Mr. Johnson, I have told you. If there are errors in the Book of
> Mormon, then there are errors in its doctrine."
> "Joseph. What have I told you?"
> "You told me that Joseph Smith saw God."
> "No. That's not it."
> "You told me that there are errors in the Bible."
> "No. That's not it. I told you that the Book of Mormon is true
> when Holy Spirit gives you a powerful and burning sensation
> in your bosom."
> "And I told you that I have the same experience and that it
> is not from God."
> "Well, obviously, you had a mental problem."
> When Mr. Johnson attacked my mental disability, I found him
> extremely ignorant about manic depressive illness. He was
> insensitive and rude.
> "Mr. Johnson, I find you very insulting. Not many Christians,
> whom I know, can tolerate your abuse and your rudeness."
> "Joseph. Read the Book of Mormon from start to finish. At least
> 10 pages a day. If you read that fast, you will finish reading
> the Book of Mormon in two months."
> "Mr. Johnson. I do not read my Bible that much."
> "You have time to read the Book of Mormon. You read all of that
> anti-Mormon literature. Why cant you read the Book of Mormon for
> 10 pages a day for two months?"
> "I am not a disciplined as you, Mr. Johnson."
> "Joseph, I am telling you. Read the Book of Mormon."
> "I think we have enough, Mr. Johnson. But if you like to talk to
> me and my pastor, I would be happy to do so."
> "I don't want to talk to your pastor. Joseph, read the Book of
> Mormon. You told all of your atheist friends to read the Bible.
> So, I am telling you to read the Bible."
> "Mr. Johnson. I believe that we have enough talk."
> "Ill see you later."
> I feel that I have lost the debate and that I failed to sway Mr.
> Johnson's views or to change his beliefs. However, I heard rumors
> from another Mormon that Mr. Johnson went through a divorce and,
> later on, was remarried to another woman. Please pray for him.
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