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Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Site Update

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  • Edgar A. Ibarra Jr.
    For starters, like most Reformed churches of today, he stops at the 5-points of Calvinism. Most Presbyterian & Reformed churches & theologians of today
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 6, 2004
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      For starters, like most "Reformed" churches of today, he stops at
      the 5-points of Calvinism. Most "Presbyterian" & "Reformed"
      churches & theologians of today deny the Regulative Principle of
      Worship & hence partake of the Romish fundamental sin of will-worship
      (man, not God, determines what is acceptable to offer up to God in
      public worship, i.e. singing man-made hymns [Watts, Welsey, et al],
      breaking the Lord's Day, observing Xmas, Good Friday, & Easter),
      denying true Biblical Presbyterianism, denying the whole doctrine of
      Covenanting, denying that the Papacy is the Anti-Christ, &
      tolerating denominationalism and making excuses for the serious
      division that exists in Christ's body.

      I am sure others can add to this...

      Reformed/Presbyterian/Calvinsim is the most purest & faithful
      expression of Christianity...the doctrine...not necessarily always
      the adherents...and the Covenanted Reformation was the crowning
      jewel until Oliver Cromwell and the Stuarts came in to crush the
      Truth and the compromised Presbyterians propogated it (the
      suppresion)...even until this day...

      For the Covenanted Reformation
      that brings true biblical unity,

      Edgar Ibarra
      Albany NY
      RPNA

      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Robbie Stark
      <igrus@o...> wrote:
      > Packer I understand as he sold his soul BACK to Rome, (So to
      speak), but, what is your issue/problem with Sproul? Calling him
      NOT Reformed? I am all ears
      >
      > Robbie ( Who firmly believes calling Rome the most evil
      institution on earth, to be an understatement!)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Theodore Letis
      > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 10:23 AM
      > Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Site Update
      >
      >
      > Keith,
      >
      > You handled this perfectly. This is the rot that is coming out
      of PCA/OPC semianries, and from the Sproul/Packer pastor-graduates
      from these schools of the addle-minded. You nailed them justifiably
      by pointing out they are no more Puritan (or Reformed, for that
      matter) than are modern Methodists. But they are too ignorant to be
      able to blush when this is pointed out to them. The internet has
      done us much good, but that bad it has accomplished in turning knats
      in to draggons under the magnification of "attention-getting" from
      being someone in cyberspace, almost makes me wish for an earlier
      time, pre-internet "academics."
      >
      > Ted
      >
      > keith dotzler <kdotz@e...> wrote:
      > Bro Ted,
      >
      > You've said it all in that short post! Sadly, it is a rare
      occasion when one comes across a professed "protestant," who isn't a
      futurist or a preterist. In fact, outside of this list, I can count
      on one hand the number of truly Reformed Protestants that I've met
      AT PROTESTANT AND PURITAN DISCUSSION BOARDS....and I've been
      discussing this topic all over the web for around 3 years now!
      >
      > In case you weren't a member of this list when I made
      reference to Matt McMahon, founder of a website and discussion board
      called A Puritan's Mind, have a gander at the following. All of the
      citations come from members of his so-called "puritan" discussion
      board. In fact, they are all statements made by McMahon and his
      discussion board administrators...one and all professing to be of a
      puritan's mind...whatever that means in this day and age. What
      follows was originally formatted to be included as an appendix to my
      recent site update.
      >
      > Hold on to your hat....
      >
      >
      >
      > I offer the following, from another who claims to be reformed
      and a Calvinist, yet opposes Calvin and the rest of the Reformers,
      as well as the very ones after whom he has named himself ("puritan
      sailor"), in denying the Pope to be the antichrist! -
      >
      > "Here again, you are assuming the Antichrist is the Pope.
      You have not yet proven that. Just because the Reformers thought so
      doesn't make it right. Please give me your exegetical grounds for
      your perspective....Just because martyrs may identify someone as the
      antichrist doesn't mean they are correct. I must rely in Scripture
      alone. So if you can't give me your exegesis then at least give me
      theirs." (emphasis added)
      >
      > Not only has this puritan pretender trampled upon the blood of
      every last Christian martyr who named the Pope as the antichrist,
      but the brother to whom that whole paragraph was directed has a
      website PACKED with the testimony of the saints through the ages,
      all of which was at this puritan pretender's fingertips, had he been
      so inclined to acquaint himself with the subject matter at hand,
      before publicly making a fool of himself. This so-called "puritan"
      pretends to be in search of a proper "exegesis" of Scripture
      regarding antichrist's identity, yet seems to be wholly oblivious to
      the fact that numerous works abounded during the Reformation era,
      and afterward, all of which prove the Pope of Rome to be that
      antichrist and man of sin foretold in Scripture, his false Church
      being Mystery Babylon. He was just a mouse-click away from that
      which he sought, yet still had the unmitigated gall to ask for
      exegesis that proved the Pope of Rome to be the Antichrist!
      >
      > How is one who throws around words like "exegesis" to be taken
      seriously, when he obviously hasn't educated himself in the works of
      those whom he claims as spiritual brethren, such as the Reformers
      and the Puritans? If he rejects THEIR exegesis of Revelation
      chapters 13 and 17, or that of 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, what on
      earth, then, would suddenly cause him to accept the exegesis of the
      brother with whom he was having this discussion? Who can call
      themselves a Puritan or a Reformed Protestant, and REJECT ALL of
      what the Reformers and Puritans taught concerning the identities of
      THE Antichrist, THE man of sin, and Mystery Babylon?
      >
      > This so-called "puritan sailor" begs for exegesis...ANY
      exegesis...proving the Pope of Rome to be THE antichrist --, yet
      what do you suppose he did with it, when it was offered? The
      exegesis of one William Perkins (a true Puritan) was offered to this
      puritan pretender, in the form of an excerpt from An Excellent
      Sermon Plainly Proving That Rome is Babylon, and That Babylon is
      Fallen (1595),as was Francis Turretin's 7th Disputation, Whether It
      Can Be Proven the Pope of Rome is the Antichrist (circa 1661). How
      did the "puritan sailor" respond to the former?
      >
      > "Using Perkin's [sic] quote above, I find some flaws in
      exegesis."
      >
      > There you have it. Not only would this arrogant puritan
      pretender reject the exegesis of anyone and everyone who would claim
      the Pope to be the Antichrist, but he obviously isn't even familiar
      enough with the real Puritan, with whom he finds these so-called
      flaws in exegesis, to know that his last name is NOT Perkin!
      Strangely, he had nothing to say about Turretin's
      exegesis...probably because he didn't bother reading it.
      >
      > Here are some more ignorant proclamations from the puritan
      pretender:
      >
      > "The book of Revelation would have very little application
      to first century Christians if the Pope was the Antichrist simple
      [sic] because there was no Pope."
      >
      > "There is no disagreement that the Pope is antichristian.
      And, there's probably no disagreement that the Pope most likely
      embodied the greatest spirit of antichrist during the Reformation.
      But that is not the case anymore. The spirit of antichrist is much
      greater in scope than Roman Catholicism." (emphasis added)
      >
      >
      > And have a look at this gem, from a "reformed" pastor:
      >
      > "The Bible nowhere outright states that the Pope of Rome is
      the antichrist. The Bible is clear that there have been and will
      continue to be many antichrists, and while some will say that the
      Pope is an antichrist, declaring such is not a litmus test for
      orthodoxy."
      >
      >
      > Lastly, observe the following, which was the response I
      received from the very well-educated founder of a "Puritan" website.
      I asked him, "Who/what is the man of sin of 2 Thes 2?" Knowing his
      familiarity with Reformed doctrine, as well as how vast his personal
      library must be, knowing he owns the Reformation Bookshelf and
      Puritan Bookshelf CD sets from Still Waters Revival Books...62 CDs
      in all, I found his response to my simple question to be arrogant,
      high-minded, mind-blowing, and simply a slap in the face to those
      Reformers and Puritans who proclaimed truths that he, with this
      ridiculous answer, denies. Who does this "puritan" pseudo-scholar
      make the man of sin to be? Observe:
      >
      > "Antichristian government or pressures in the world."
      >
      > And, to make matters worse, he later told me that,
      >
      > "The Antichrist himself was not Pope Innocent the III, or
      Pope John Paul 1st. We will have to 'see' who may be
      the 'one' 'giant' Antichrist, that man of sin, when he arises to the
      scene." (emphasis added)
      >
      > This so-called "puritan" not only looks for the man of sin
      (whom he had just said was "antichristian government") to be an
      individual man (one "giant" Antichrist), but he also denies that the
      man of sin had already been on the scene more than 700 years ago,
      and looks for him to first come on the scene at some FUTURE DATE (as
      do the papists)! Thus, he outright denies what millions of ancient
      Christians, Reformers, Puritans, and post-reformers before him have
      ALL proclaimed (many to their deaths), viz., that the man of sin,
      the antichrist, the beast, was not to come at some point in the
      future, but was the one that was killing Christians, and was the one
      reigning IN THEIR MIDST, with his seat and harlot church both
      residing in Rome!
      >
      > The above men will quickly claim that they believe the papacy
      is antichrist, as did the founder, mentioned above, in an e-mail
      correspondence with me (see below), but notice how they word such an
      empty creedal statement. They make sure to leave out the article
      THE, and refer to the papacy as just "antichrist," "antichristian,"
      or "AN antichrist." They just can't bring their intellects down
      from out of the clouds to embrace that which was revelaed to
      millions of martyred brethren over the last millennium: the papacy
      is THE antichrist, THE man of sin, and THE beast from the sea!
      >
      > Here are some questions I put to the founder, via e-mail. His
      responses are in blue:
      >
      > 1) Who/what is the beast that rose out of the sea, in Rev
      13? Devil - the hand of the devil
      > 2) Who/what is the man of sin of 2 Thes 2? Antichristian
      government or pressures in the world
      > 3) Who/what is the little horn of Daniel 9? Antichrist
      government or pressures in the world
      > 4) Who/what is Mystery, Babylon the Great of Rev 17?
      Possibly the Roman Catholic Church (see WCF)
      > 5) Who/what is the beast that rose out of the earth, in Rev
      13? Devil - the wisdom of the devil
      > 6) Who/what is the "let" of 2 Thes 2? "no one", then the
      Antichristian influences
      > 7) Who/what are the Locusts of Rev 9? The power and
      influences of hell over wicked men
      > 8) Who/what are the two witnesses of Rev 11? The church
      militant - the preaching of the word and sacraments
      > 9) What is the mark, name, and number of the beast, in Rev
      13? Unregenerate influences against the church
      >
      >
      > Notice his response to question #4. He implies the WCF could
      be right about Mystery Babylon's identity, but he himself won't be
      dogmatic about it! What's more, when a good friend of mine said the
      following to one of the administrators in a PRIVATE e-mail exchange,
      he was promptly banned from the discussion board!
      >
      > "The infallible Word of God states explicitly that if any
      man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God
      shall take away his part of the book of life....
      >
      > The official sanctioned website of the OPC has willfully and
      maliciously - not from ignorance - deleted the identity of the arch-
      enemy of Christ and His Church, thus re-inventing the true
      interpretation of the Revelation which Christ infallibly wills His
      Elect know and understand. Of course, you must know the PCA has done
      likewise."
      >
      > Perkins and Turretin, to whom these men are particularly
      partial, must be rolling in their graves!
      >
      > One will search high and low on McMahon's website for any
      mention of the papal antichrist and his church, Mystery Babylon. I
      find this a STARTLING revelation, considering the fact that during
      the Reformation era, naming antichrist and his harlot church
      proceeded directly out of, and was a natural result of, preaching
      salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone...the
      two proclamations, combined, being the very justification for
      separating from the Church of Rome! How that founder can claim to
      have "a puritan's mind," yet keep the elect IN THE DARK as to THE
      antichrist's true identity is truly a mystery. To make matters
      worse, he allows preterists to openly posit their heresy at his so-
      called "puritan" board. As long as "Christ crucified" is the
      uniting mantra, all are welcome to insert their particular heresies
      without fear of chastisement or excommunication...as long as you
      don't pass judgment on a "reformed" Church that has expunged the
      identity of the man of sin from the WCF!
      >
      > What that "puritan" founder IS, in fact, is a closet-
      futurist. He said the following to me, in the course of our e-
      mail "debate:"
      > "The office of the Antichrist is the papal succession. The
      Antichrist himself was not Pope Innocent the III, or Pope John Paul
      1st. We will have to "see" who may be the "one" "giant" Antichrist,
      that man of sin, when he arises to the scene. We can say that the
      line is Antichrist (and I do)."
      >
      > Notice his little deceptive play on words, as he tries to make
      me believe he is in agreement with the Reformers and Puritans
      through the ages, regarding the identity of the antichrist:
      >
      > "We can say that the line is Antichrist (and I do)."
      >
      > The line of popes are ANTICHRIST, and the OFFICE of the
      Antichrist IS the papal succession, but it isn't THE ANTICHRIST. In
      other words, McMahon believes the office of popes to be
      antichristian, and that THE Antichrist will come from that
      succession...but he isn't here today, nor has he come in the past.
      >
      > "We will have to "see" who may be the "one" "giant"
      Antichrist, that man of sin, when he arises to the scene."
      >
      > All one has to do is look at this "puritan's" response to my 9
      questions above, and his absolute opposition to the very ones he
      claims as spiritual ancestors is immediately made known! Truly the
      wheat is being sifted from the tares, as, day after day, month after
      month, more and more who claim to be "reformed protestants" are
      showing themselves to be in bed with ROME, as they find all sorts of
      creative ways to relegate the antichrist's reign of terror to the
      past or the future, but never to the present.
      >
      > "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall
      consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the
      brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the
      working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And
      with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
      because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be
      saved.
      >
      > And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that
      they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who
      believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
      >
      > They received not the love of the truth because they were sent
      strong delusion by God Himself. These are obviosuly reprobates who
      were fitted for destruction from the foundation of the world....for
      the Lord never UN-elects one of His elect to damn them. These false
      Christians -- tares among the wheat -- because they never received a
      love of the truth (a mark of being elect), believed a LIE.
      >
      > The "truth" that was not believed cannot refer to "rejecting
      the Gospel," as some believe. The topic of the chapter is not the
      Gospel, but the revealing of the man of sin. Therefore, the LIE
      that is believed is directly related to the revealing of the man of
      sin.
      >
      > Lord come quickly!
      >
      > Take care,
      > Keith
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Theodore Letis
      > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: 12/3/2004 5:06:48 PM
      > Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Site Update
      >
      >
      > Keith,
      >
      > what I find odd is that "conservative" (not liberal)
      Calvinists can't even accept it from Calvin himself in the
      Institutes--THE primary source of the Reformed Reformation. but yet
      they can accept Preterism from Sproul and others--a blatant heresy
      (partial or otherwise). Let's see...Calvin wrong; Sproul right!?
      >
      > Amongst confessional Lutherans I have never met one who did
      not toally agree with Luther on the Antichrist. Not one! Why is
      that? I think it is because the Reformed claim to be "Reformed...but
      always Reforming," so in some respects these Reformed are more like
      Rome: the faith keeps getting revised like Bill Gate's Microsoft
      Word, so that only the "latest" version is the correct version.
      Thanks God you have been led to keep these works available.
      >
      > Ted
      >
      > keith dotzler <kdotz@e...> wrote:
      > I appreciate that bro Ted. There are many more such works
      in my arsenal, which I wish to share with the brethren over the
      course of the coming years. I only wish those fancy Caligraphic old
      English fonts wouldn't have been used...because then I could scan
      them, rather than having to transcribe them by hand! ;-)
      >
      > Though it's time consuming to place such excerpts on the
      web, it's a very small price to pay....
      >
      > As a professing Christian (during my Arminian days), I was
      wholly ignorant of the existence of such works for over 11 years!
      >
      > Even after my eyes were opened to the Doctrines of Grace a
      couple years back, I had so-called "reformed Calvinists" telling me
      that eschatology was all but passed over by the Reformers and post
      reformers, and that belief in a pre-trib rapture and
      premillennialism were Biblically sound, and wholly compatible with
      CALVINISM and REFORMED PROTESTANISM!!! After all, you know the
      standard line used by those who think they're more intelligent and
      more in tune with the Spirit than the Reformers were: "they were
      only men."
      >
      > I have discovered, first-hand, that all who claim the name
      of "reformed Protestant," who say that the subject of Antichrist
      rarely came up before, during, or after the Reformation, are
      ignorantly speaking words without knowledge (to their shame).
      >
      > Having done the leg work necessary to acquire...
      > a.. the MANY treatises on Antichrist that circulated
      during the 16th and 17th centuries (Turretin, Beard, Bradshaw,
      Daneau, Deios, Garrett, Gwalther, Jones, Rainolds, Osiander, Sohn,
      Hall, Zwingli, Becon, Barnes, Downame, Whitaker, Tyndale, Luther,
      etc),
      > b.. as well as the NUMEROUS commentaries on the
      Revelation from the same era (Holland, Fulke, Pareus, Newton,
      Brightman, Mede, Junius, More, Durham, Dent, Cotton, Perkins,
      Cartwright, Bale),
      > c.. not to mention the 16th & 17th century commentaries
      on 2 Thessalonians (Tymme, Fergusson, Squire, Jewel, Manton,
      Bullinger, Fulke, and Cartwright),
      > ....I find it simply INCREDIBLE that so many,
      many "reformed" brethren could even muster up the THOUGHT that
      antichrist was a non-issue...let alone making those ignorant
      thoughts PUBLIC! How can such a vast library be missed?
      >
      > Sadly, multitudes who name the name of Christ have
      absolutely no idea that the testimony of the saints of the last 7+
      centuries has been preserved for us in various forms....all of which
      points the true Church of God to the identity of the man of sin and
      his harlot Church -- Mystery Babylon. These treasures are crassly
      cast aside and ignored by the intellectuals among us -- relegated to
      the "works of men" bin.
      >
      > Today's professing apostate Christian thinks it
      more "godly" to shout "give me the Bible and nothing else," than to
      examine the writings of our departed brethren, to see what they
      believed and WHY. Some of these pretenders then get positions in
      their local churches TEACHING others the false "truths" they
      received of the Spirit, while studying their Bible and nothing
      else. Then comes the day when one of his students asks him about
      the identity of the antichrist. The teacher, proud of the fact that
      he has his Bible and nothing else, proudly proclaims,
      >
      > "Why, we obviously can't know who he is, until he's
      revealed after the rapture!"
      >
      > But, says the student, the historic Church over the course
      of the last 7 centuries, with one voice, has proclaimed that the
      Pope of Rome is the Antichrist.
      >
      > "Well," says the teacher, "they were just men. You
      shouldn't put much stock in their commentaries and other writings.
      The Bible alone will give you the answers, through the guidance of
      the Holy Spirit."
      >
      > Well, says the student, first of all, aren't YOU a man?
      >
      > Secondly, if the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth, and
      if he has already guided the historic Church of the last 7 centuries
      into the truth about the Antichrist's identity, and if we now ignore
      that revelation and await our own, wouldn't we be rejecting the
      truth?
      >
      > Thirdly, of what use are teachers, preachers, evangelists,
      pastors, etc, if we aren't to LISTEN TO THEM?
      >
      >
      >
      > Take care,
      > Keith
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Theodore Letis
      > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: 12/1/2004 10:09:29 PM
      > Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Site Update
      >
      >
      > What I attempted to say below was that I very much
      enjoyed the website noted by Keith below and am happy to see those
      important documents yet out there for all to read...for now.
      >
      > Ted
      >
      >
      > urces are out thre and still readable...for now...
      >
      > Ted
      >
      > keith dotzler <kdotz@e...> wrote:
      >
      > Friends,
      >
      > Our site has been updated.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      http://www.geocities.com/ll_twoedged_sword_ll/main.html
      >
      >
      > In Christ,
      > Keith Dotzler
      > kdotz@e...
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Cheryl
      It will be a grand day when the quality of our *practice* matches the quality of our profession. Cheryl ... From: Edgar A. Ibarra Jr.
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 7, 2004
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        It will be a grand day when the quality of our *practice* matches the quality of our profession.
         
        Cheryl
        ----- Original Message -----
        Reformed/Presbyterian/Calvinsim is the most purest & faithful
        expression of Christianity...the doctrine...not necessarily always
        the adherents...
      • Keith Dotzler
        Amen bro Ted. I am simply amazed, and baffled at the same time, at the number of references that modern protestants make to contemporary authors -- to the
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 8, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Amen bro Ted. I am simply amazed, and baffled at the same time, at
          the number of references that modern "protestants" make to
          contemporary authors -- to the utter and complete negligence of the
          conclusions arrived at by the Reformers and Puritans -- when the
          subject of the Antichrist is discussed!

          You won't see them citing Turretin, Jewel, Tymme, Fergusson, Perkins,
          Brightman, Pareus, Fulke, or Cartwright as proudly as they cite
          Gentry and others...unless, of course, it's to quibble about
          some "problems with [their] exegesis."

          Take care, brother!

          Keith









          --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Theodore Letis
          <bucerian@y...> wrote:
          > Keith,
          >
          > You handled this perfectly. This is the rot that is coming out of
          PCA/OPC semianries, and from the Sproul/Packer pastor-graduates from
          these schools of the addle-minded. You nailed them justifiably by
          pointing out they are no more Puritan (or Reformed, for that matter)
          than are modern Methodists. But they are too ignorant to be able to
          blush when this is pointed out to them. The internet has done us much
          good, but that bad it has accomplished in turning knats in to
          draggons under the magnification of "attention-getting" from being
          someone in cyberspace, almost makes me wish for an earlier time, pre-
          internet "academics."
          >
          > Ted
          >
          > keith dotzler <kdotz@e...> wrote:
          > Bro Ted,
          >
          > You've said it all in that short post! Sadly, it is a rare
          occasion when one comes across a professed "protestant," who isn't a
          futurist or a preterist. In fact, outside of this list, I can count
          on one hand the number of truly Reformed Protestants that I've met AT
          PROTESTANT AND PURITAN DISCUSSION BOARDS....and I've been discussing
          this topic all over the web for around 3 years now!
          >
          > In case you weren't a member of this list when I made reference to
          Matt McMahon, founder of a website and discussion board called A
          Puritan's Mind, have a gander at the following. All of the citations
          come from members of his so-called "puritan" discussion board. In
          fact, they are all statements made by McMahon and his discussion
          board administrators...one and all professing to be of a puritan's
          mind...whatever that means in this day and age. What follows was
          originally formatted to be included as an appendix to my recent site
          update.
          >
          > Hold on to your hat....
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I offer the following, from another who claims to be reformed and a
          Calvinist, yet opposes Calvin and the rest of the Reformers, as well
          as the very ones after whom he has named himself ("puritan sailor"),
          in denying the Pope to be the antichrist! —
          >
          > "Here again, you are assuming the Antichrist is the Pope. You have
          not yet proven that. Just because the Reformers thought so doesn't
          make it right. Please give me your exegetical grounds for your
          perspective....Just because martyrs may identify someone as the
          antichrist doesn't mean they are correct. I must rely in Scripture
          alone. So if you can't give me your exegesis then at least give me
          theirs." (emphasis added)
          >
          > Not only has this puritan pretender trampled upon the blood of
          every last Christian martyr who named the Pope as the antichrist, but
          the brother to whom that whole paragraph was directed has a website
          PACKED with the testimony of the saints through the ages, all of
          which was at this puritan pretender's fingertips, had he been so
          inclined to acquaint himself with the subject matter at hand, before
          publicly making a fool of himself. This so-called "puritan" pretends
          to be in search of a proper "exegesis" of Scripture regarding
          antichrist's identity, yet seems to be wholly oblivious to the fact
          that numerous works abounded during the Reformation era, and
          afterward, all of which prove the Pope of Rome to be that antichrist
          and man of sin foretold in Scripture, his false Church being Mystery
          Babylon. He was just a mouse-click away from that which he sought,
          yet still had the unmitigated gall to ask for exegesis that proved
          the Pope of Rome to be the Antichrist!
          >
          > How is one who throws around words like "exegesis" to be taken
          seriously, when he obviously hasn't educated himself in the works of
          those whom he claims as spiritual brethren, such as the Reformers and
          the Puritans? If he rejects THEIR exegesis of Revelation chapters 13
          and 17, or that of 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, what on earth, then,
          would suddenly cause him to accept the exegesis of the brother with
          whom he was having this discussion? Who can call themselves a
          Puritan or a Reformed Protestant, and REJECT ALL of what the
          Reformers and Puritans taught concerning the identities of THE
          Antichrist, THE man of sin, and Mystery Babylon?
          >
          > This so-called "puritan sailor" begs for exegesis...ANY
          exegesis...proving the Pope of Rome to be THE antichrist --, yet what
          do you suppose he did with it, when it was offered? The exegesis of
          one William Perkins (a true Puritan) was offered to this puritan
          pretender, in the form of an excerpt from An Excellent Sermon Plainly
          Proving That Rome is Babylon, and That Babylon is Fallen (1595),as
          was Francis Turretin's 7th Disputation, Whether It Can Be Proven the
          Pope of Rome is the Antichrist (circa 1661). How did the "puritan
          sailor" respond to the former?
          >
          > "Using Perkin's [sic] quote above, I find some flaws in exegesis."
          >
          > There you have it. Not only would this arrogant puritan pretender
          reject the exegesis of anyone and everyone who would claim the Pope
          to be the Antichrist, but he obviously isn't even familiar enough
          with the real Puritan, with whom he finds these so-called flaws in
          exegesis, to know that his last name is NOT Perkin! Strangely, he
          had nothing to say about Turretin's exegesis...probably because he
          didn't bother reading it.
          >
          > Here are some more ignorant proclamations from the puritan
          pretender:
          >
          > "The book of Revelation would have very little application to first
          century Christians if the Pope was the Antichrist simple [sic]
          because there was no Pope."
          >
          > "There is no disagreement that the Pope is antichristian. And,
          there's probably no disagreement that the Pope most likely embodied
          the greatest spirit of antichrist during the Reformation. But that is
          not the case anymore. The spirit of antichrist is much greater in
          scope than Roman Catholicism." (emphasis added)
          >
          >
          > And have a look at this gem, from a "reformed" pastor:
          >
          > "The Bible nowhere outright states that the Pope of Rome is the
          antichrist. The Bible is clear that there have been and will continue
          to be many antichrists, and while some will say that the Pope is an
          antichrist, declaring such is not a litmus test for orthodoxy."
          >
          >
          > Lastly, observe the following, which was the response I received
          from the very well-educated founder of a "Puritan" website. I asked
          him, "Who/what is the man of sin of 2 Thes 2?" Knowing his
          familiarity with Reformed doctrine, as well as how vast his personal
          library must be, knowing he owns the Reformation Bookshelf and
          Puritan Bookshelf CD sets from Still Waters Revival Books...62 CDs in
          all, I found his response to my simple question to be arrogant, high-
          minded, mind-blowing, and simply a slap in the face to those
          Reformers and Puritans who proclaimed truths that he, with this
          ridiculous answer, denies. Who does this "puritan" pseudo-scholar
          make the man of sin to be? Observe:
          >
          > "Antichristian government or pressures in the world."
          >
          > And, to make matters worse, he later told me that,
          >
          > "The Antichrist himself was not Pope Innocent the III, or Pope John
          Paul 1st. We will have to 'see' who may be the 'one' 'giant'
          Antichrist, that man of sin, when he arises to the scene." (emphasis
          added)
          >
          > This so-called "puritan" not only looks for the man of sin (whom he
          had just said was "antichristian government") to be an individual man
          (one "giant" Antichrist), but he also denies that the man of sin had
          already been on the scene more than 700 years ago, and looks for him
          to first come on the scene at some FUTURE DATE (as do the papists)!
          Thus, he outright denies what millions of ancient Christians,
          Reformers, Puritans, and post-reformers before him have ALL
          proclaimed (many to their deaths), viz., that the man of sin, the
          antichrist, the beast, was not to come at some point in the future,
          but was the one that was killing Christians, and was the one reigning
          IN THEIR MIDST, with his seat and harlot church both residing in
          Rome!
          >
          > The above men will quickly claim that they believe the papacy is
          antichrist, as did the founder, mentioned above, in an e-mail
          correspondence with me (see below), but notice how they word such an
          empty creedal statement. They make sure to leave out the article
          THE, and refer to the papacy as just "antichrist," "antichristian,"
          or "AN antichrist." They just can't bring their intellects down from
          out of the clouds to embrace that which was revelaed to millions of
          martyred brethren over the last millennium: the papacy is THE
          antichrist, THE man of sin, and THE beast from the sea!
          >
          > Here are some questions I put to the founder, via e-mail. His
          responses are in blue:
          > 1) Who/what is the beast that rose out of the sea, in Rev 13?
          Devil - the hand of the devil
          > 2) Who/what is the man of sin of 2 Thes 2? Antichristian
          government or pressures in the world
          > 3) Who/what is the little horn of Daniel 9? Antichrist government
          or pressures in the world
          > 4) Who/what is Mystery, Babylon the Great of Rev 17? Possibly
          the Roman Catholic Church (see WCF)
          > 5) Who/what is the beast that rose out of the earth, in Rev 13?
          Devil - the wisdom of the devil
          > 6) Who/what is the "let" of 2 Thes 2? "no one", then the
          Antichristian influences
          > 7) Who/what are the Locusts of Rev 9? The power and influences of
          hell over wicked men
          > 8) Who/what are the two witnesses of Rev 11? The church
          militant - the preaching of the word and sacraments
          > 9) What is the mark, name, and number of the beast, in Rev 13?
          Unregenerate influences against the church
          >
          >
          >
          > Notice his response to question #4. He implies the WCF could be
          right about Mystery Babylon's identity, but he himself won't be
          dogmatic about it! What's more, when a good friend of mine said the
          following to one of the administrators in a PRIVATE e-mail exchange,
          he was promptly banned from the discussion board!
          >
          > "The infallible Word of God states explicitly that if any man shall
          take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take
          away his part of the book of life....
          >
          > The official sanctioned website of the OPC has willfully and
          maliciously - not from ignorance - deleted the identity of the arch-
          enemy of Christ and His Church, thus re-inventing the true
          interpretation of the Revelation which Christ infallibly wills His
          Elect know and understand. Of course, you must know the PCA has done
          likewise."
          >
          >
          > Perkins and Turretin, to whom these men are particularly partial,
          must be rolling in their graves!
          >
          > One will search high and low on McMahon's website for any mention
          of the papal antichrist and his church, Mystery Babylon. I find this
          a STARTLING revelation, considering the fact that during the
          Reformation era, naming antichrist and his harlot church proceeded
          directly out of, and was a natural result of, preaching salvation by
          grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone...the two
          proclamations, combined, being the very justification for separating
          from the Church of Rome! How that founder can claim to have "a
          puritan's mind," yet keep the elect IN THE DARK as to THE
          antichrist's true identity is truly a mystery. To make matters
          worse, he allows preterists to openly posit their heresy at his so-
          called "puritan" board. As long as "Christ crucified" is the uniting
          mantra, all are welcome to insert their particular heresies without
          fear of chastisement or excommunication...as long as you don't pass
          judgment on a "reformed" Church that has expunged the identity of the
          man of
          > sin from the WCF!
          >
          > What that "puritan" founder IS, in fact, is a closet-futurist. He
          said the following to me, in the course of our e-mail "debate:"
          > "The office of the Antichrist is the papal succession. The
          Antichrist himself was not Pope Innocent the III, or Pope John Paul
          1st. We will have to "see" who may be the "one" "giant" Antichrist,
          that man of sin, when he arises to the scene. We can say that the
          line is Antichrist (and I do)."
          >
          > Notice his little deceptive play on words, as he tries to make me
          believe he is in agreement with the Reformers and Puritans through
          the ages, regarding the identity of the antichrist:
          >
          > "We can say that the line is Antichrist (and I do)."
          >
          > The line of popes are ANTICHRIST, and the OFFICE of the Antichrist
          IS the papal succession, but it isn't THE ANTICHRIST. In other
          words, McMahon believes the office of popes to be antichristian, and
          that THE Antichrist will come from that succession...but he isn't
          here today, nor has he come in the past.
          >
          > "We will have to "see" who may be the "one" "giant" Antichrist,
          that man of sin, when he arises to the scene."
          >
          > All one has to do is look at this "puritan's" response to my 9
          questions above, and his absolute opposition to the very ones he
          claims as spiritual ancestors is immediately made known! Truly the
          wheat is being sifted from the tares, as, day after day, month after
          month, more and more who claim to be "reformed protestants" are
          showing themselves to be in bed with ROME, as they find all sorts of
          creative ways to relegate the antichrist's reign of terror to the
          past or the future, but never to the present.
          >
          > "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall
          consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the
          brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working
          of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all
          deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they
          received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
          >
          > And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they
          should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not
          the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
          >
          >
          >
          > They received not the love of the truth because they were sent
          strong delusion by God Himself. These are obviosuly reprobates who
          were fitted for destruction from the foundation of the world....for
          the Lord never UN-elects one of His elect to damn them. These false
          Christians -- tares among the wheat -- because they never received a
          love of the truth (a mark of being elect), believed a LIE.
          >
          > The "truth" that was not believed cannot refer to "rejecting the
          Gospel," as some believe. The topic of the chapter is not the
          Gospel, but the revealing of the man of sin. Therefore, the LIE that
          is believed is directly related to the revealing of the man of sin.
          >
          >
          > Lord come quickly!
          >
          > Take care,
          > Keith
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Theodore Letis
          > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: 12/3/2004 5:06:48 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Site Update
          >
          >
          > Keith,
          >
          > what I find odd is that "conservative" (not liberal) Calvinists
          can't even accept it from Calvin himself in the Institutes--THE
          primary source of the Reformed Reformation. but yet they can accept
          Preterism from Sproul and others--a blatant heresy (partial or
          otherwise). Let's see...Calvin wrong; Sproul right!?
          >
          > Amongst confessional Lutherans I have never met one who did not
          toally agree with Luther on the Antichrist. Not one! Why is that? I
          think it is because the Reformed claim to be "Reformed...but always
          Reforming," so in some respects these Reformed are more like Rome:
          the faith keeps getting revised like Bill Gate's Microsoft Word, so
          that only the "latest" version is the correct version. Thanks God you
          have been led to keep these works available.
          >
          > Ted
          >
          > keith dotzler <kdotz@e...> wrote:
          > I appreciate that bro Ted. There are many more such works in my
          arsenal, which I wish to share with the brethren over the course of
          the coming years. I only wish those fancy Caligraphic old English
          fonts wouldn't have been used...because then I could scan them,
          rather than having to transcribe them by hand! ;-)
          >
          > Though it's time consuming to place such excerpts on the web, it's
          a very small price to pay....
          >
          > As a professing Christian (during my Arminian days), I was wholly
          ignorant of the existence of such works for over 11 years!
          >
          > Even after my eyes were opened to the Doctrines of Grace a couple
          years back, I had so-called "reformed Calvinists" telling me that
          eschatology was all but passed over by the Reformers and post
          reformers, and that belief in a pre-trib rapture and premillennialism
          were Biblically sound, and wholly compatible with CALVINISM and
          REFORMED PROTESTANISM!!! After all, you know the standard line used
          by those who think they're more intelligent and more in tune with the
          Spirit than the Reformers were: "they were only men."
          >
          > I have discovered, first-hand, that all who claim the name
          of "reformed Protestant," who say that the subject of Antichrist
          rarely came up before, during, or after the Reformation, are
          ignorantly speaking words without knowledge (to their shame).
          >
          > Having done the leg work necessary to acquire...
          >
          > the MANY treatises on Antichrist that circulated during the 16th
          and 17th centuries (Turretin, Beard, Bradshaw, Daneau, Deios,
          Garrett, Gwalther, Jones, Rainolds, Osiander, Sohn, Hall, Zwingli,
          Becon, Barnes, Downame, Whitaker, Tyndale, Luther, etc),
          > as well as the NUMEROUS commentaries on the Revelation from the
          same era (Holland, Fulke, Pareus, Newton, Brightman, Mede, Junius,
          More, Durham, Dent, Cotton, Perkins, Cartwright, Bale),
          > not to mention the 16th & 17th century commentaries on 2
          Thessalonians (Tymme, Fergusson, Squire, Jewel, Manton, Bullinger,
          Fulke, and Cartwright),
          > ....I find it simply INCREDIBLE that so many, many "reformed"
          brethren could even muster up the THOUGHT that antichrist was a non-
          issue...let alone making those ignorant thoughts PUBLIC! How can
          such a vast library be missed?
          >
          > Sadly, multitudes who name the name of Christ have absolutely no
          idea that the testimony of the saints of the last 7+ centuries has
          been preserved for us in various forms....all of which points the
          true Church of God to the identity of the man of sin and his harlot
          Church -- Mystery Babylon. These treasures are crassly cast aside
          and ignored by the intellectuals among us -- relegated to the "works
          of men" bin.
          >
          > Today's professing apostate Christian thinks it more "godly" to
          shout "give me the Bible and nothing else," than to examine the
          writings of our departed brethren, to see what they believed and
          WHY. Some of these pretenders then get positions in their local
          churches TEACHING others the false "truths" they received of the
          Spirit, while studying their Bible and nothing else. Then comes the
          day when one of his students asks him about the identity of the
          antichrist. The teacher, proud of the fact that he has his Bible and
          nothing else, proudly proclaims,
          >
          > "Why, we obviously can't know who he is, until he's revealed after
          the rapture!"
          >
          > But, says the student, the historic Church over the course of the
          last 7 centuries, with one voice, has proclaimed that the Pope of
          Rome is the Antichrist.
          >
          > "Well," says the teacher, "they were just men. You shouldn't put
          much stock in their commentaries and other writings. The Bible alone
          will give you the answers, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit."
          >
          > Well, says the student, first of all, aren't YOU a man?
          >
          > Secondly, if the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth, and if he
          has already guided the historic Church of the last 7 centuries into
          the truth about the Antichrist's identity, and if we now ignore that
          revelation and await our own, wouldn't we be rejecting the truth?
          >
          > Thirdly, of what use are teachers, preachers, evangelists, pastors,
          etc, if we aren't to LISTEN TO THEM?
          >
          >
          >
          > Take care,
          > Keith
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Theodore Letis
          > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: 12/1/2004 10:09:29 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Site Update
          >
          >
          > What I attempted to say below was that I very much enjoyed the
          website noted by Keith below and am happy to see those important
          documents yet out there for all to read...for now.
          >
          > Ted
          >
          >
          > urces are out thre and still readable...for now...
          >
          > Ted
          >
          > keith dotzler <kdotz@e...> wrote:
          >
          > Friends,
          >
          > Our site has been updated.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > http://www.geocities.com/ll_twoedged_sword_ll/main.html
          >
          >
          > In Christ,
          > Keith Dotzler
          > kdotz@e...
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • Theodore Letis
          My Covenanter brethren (Parnell in particular): I am embarrassed to have to call on you but my two libraries are in storage--one in Grand Rapids, the other in
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 21, 2004
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            My Covenanter brethren (Parnell in particular):
             
            I am embarrassed to have to call on you but my two libraries are in storage--one in Grand Rapids, the other in Edinburgh--and I need a quick answer to a historical question:
             
            What was the name of the papal encyclical written in the sixteenth century claiming all lands discovered in the New World to be under the political and spiritual authority of the Roman Church? Also the date, where and English edition of the text can be found, and the author (which Pope). Many thanks for your help on this.
             
            --Theodore P. Letis

            Theodore Letis <bucerian@...> wrote:
            Keith,
             
            You handled this perfectly. This is the rot that is coming out of PCA/OPC semianries, and from the Sproul/Packer pastor-graduates from these schools of the addle-minded. You nailed them justifiably by pointing out they are no more Puritan (or Reformed, for that matter) than are modern Methodists. But they are too ignorant to be able to blush when this is pointed out to them. The internet has done us much good, but that bad it has accomplished in turning knats in to draggons under the magnification of "attention-getting" from being someone in cyberspace, almost makes me wish for an earlier time, pre-internet "academics."
             
            Ted

            keith dotzler <kdotz@...> wrote:
            Bro Ted,
             
            You've said it all in that short post!  Sadly, it is a rare occasion when one comes across a professed "protestant," who isn't a futurist or a preterist.  In fact, outside of this list, I can count on one hand the number of truly Reformed Protestants that I've met AT PROTESTANT AND PURITAN DISCUSSION BOARDS....and I've been discussing this topic all over the web for around 3 years now!
             
            In case you weren't a member of this list when I made reference to Matt McMahon, founder of a website and discussion board called A Puritan's Mind, have a gander at the following.  All of the citations come from members of his so-called "puritan" discussion board.  In fact, they are all statements made by McMahon and his discussion board administrators...one and all professing to be of a puritan's mind...whatever that means in this day and age.  What follows was originally formatted to be included as an appendix to my recent site update.
             
            Hold on to your hat....
             
             
                 

            I offer the following, from another who claims to be reformed and a Calvinist, yet opposes Calvin and the rest of the Reformers, as well as the very ones after whom he has named himself ("puritan sailor"), in denying the Pope to be the antichrist!

            �Here again, you are assuming the Antichrist is the Pope. You have not yet proven that. Just because the Reformers thought so doesn't make it right. Please give me your exegetical grounds for your perspective....Just because martyrs may identify someone as the antichrist doesn't mean they are correct. I must rely in Scripture alone. So if you can't give me your exegesis then at least give me theirs.�  (emphasis added)

            Not only has this puritan pretender trampled upon the blood of every last Christian martyr who named the Pope as the antichrist, but the brother to whom that whole paragraph was directed has a website PACKED with the testimony of the saints through the ages, all of which was at this puritan pretender's fingertips, had he been so inclined to acquaint himself with the subject matter at hand, before publicly making a fool of himself.  This so-called "puritan" pretends to be in search of a proper "exegesis" of Scripture regarding antichrist's identity, yet seems to be wholly oblivious to the fact that numerous works abounded during the Reformation era, and afterward, all of which prove the Pope of Rome to be that antichrist and man of sin foretold in Scripture, his false Church being Mystery Babylon.  He was just a mouse-click away from that which he sought, yet still had the unmitigated gall to ask for exegesis that proved the Pope of Rome to be the Antichrist! 

            How is one who throws around words like "exegesis" to be taken seriously, when he obviously hasn't educated himself in the works of those whom he claims as spiritual brethren, such as the Reformers and the Puritans?  If he rejects THEIR exegesis of Revelation chapters 13 and 17, or that of 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, what on earth, then, would suddenly cause him to accept the exegesis of the brother with whom he was having this discussion?  Who can call themselves a Puritan or a Reformed Protestant, and REJECT ALL of what the Reformers and Puritans taught concerning the identities of THE Antichrist, THE man of sin, and Mystery Babylon? 

            This so-called "puritan sailor" begs for exegesis...ANY exegesis...proving the Pope of Rome to be THE antichrist --, yet what do you suppose he did with it, when it was offered?  The exegesis of one William Perkins (a true Puritan) was offered to this puritan pretender, in the form of an excerpt from An Excellent Sermon Plainly Proving That Rome is Babylon, and That Babylon is Fallen (1595),as was Francis Turretin's 7th Disputation, Whether It Can Be Proven the Pope of Rome is the Antichrist (circa 1661).  How did the "puritan sailor" respond to the former?

            "Using Perkin's [sic] quote above, I find some flaws in exegesis."

            There you have it.  Not only would this arrogant puritan pretender reject the exegesis of anyone and everyone who would claim the Pope to be the Antichrist, but he obviously isn't even familiar enough with the real Puritan, with whom he finds these so-called flaws in exegesis, to know that his last name is NOT Perkin!   Strangely, he had nothing to say about Turretin's exegesis...probably because he didn't bother reading it.

            Here are some more ignorant proclamations from the puritan pretender:

            The book of Revelation would have very little application to first century Christians if the Pope was the Antichrist simple [sic] because there was no Pope.

            There is no disagreement that the Pope is antichristian. And, there's probably no disagreement that the Pope most likely embodied the greatest spirit of antichrist during the Reformation. But that is not the case anymore. The spirit of antichrist is much greater in scope than Roman Catholicism.�  (emphasis added)
             

            And have a look at this gem, from a "reformed" pastor:

            �The Bible nowhere outright states that the Pope of Rome is the antichrist. The Bible is clear that there have been and will continue to be many antichrists, and while some will say that the Pope is an antichrist, declaring such is not a litmus test for orthodoxy.�
             

            Lastly, observe the following, which was the response I received from the very well-educated founder of a "Puritan" website. I asked him, �Who/what is the man of sin of 2 Thes 2?�  Knowing his familiarity with Reformed doctrine, as well as how vast his personal library must be, knowing he owns the Reformation Bookshelf and Puritan Bookshelf CD sets from Still Waters Revival Books...62 CDs in all, I found his response to my simple question to be arrogant, high-minded, mind-blowing, and simply a slap in the face to those Reformers and Puritans who proclaimed truths that he, with this ridiculous answer, denies.  Who does this "puritan" pseudo-scholar make the man of sin to be?  Observe: 

            �Antichristian government or pressures in the world. 

            And, to make matters worse, he later told me that,

            �The Antichrist himself was not Pope Innocent the III, or Pope John Paul 1st.  We will have to 'see' who may be the 'one' 'giant' Antichrist, that man of sin, when he arises to the scene. (emphasis added)

            This so-called "puritan" not only looks for the man of sin (whom he had just said was "antichristian government") to be an individual man (one "giant" Antichrist), but he also denies that the man of sin had already been on the scene more than 700 years ago, and looks for him to first come on the scene at some FUTURE DATE (as do the papists)!  Thus, he outright denies what millions of ancient Christians, Reformers, Puritans, and post-reformers before him have ALL proclaimed (many to their deaths), viz., that the man of sin, the antichrist, the beast, was not to come at some point in the future, but was the one that was killing Christians, and was the one reigning IN THEIR MIDST, with his seat and harlot church both residing in Rome! 

            The above men will quickly claim that they believe the papacy is antichrist, as did the founder, mentioned above, in an e-mail correspondence with me (see below), but notice how they word such an empty creedal statement.  They make sure to leave out the article THE, and refer to the papacy as just "antichrist," "antichristian," or "AN antichrist."  They just can't bring their intellects down from out of the clouds to embrace that which was revelaed to millions of martyred brethren over the last millennium:  the papacy is THE antichrist, THE man of sin, and THE beast from the sea! 

            Here are some questions I put to the founder, via e-mail.  His responses are in blue:

            1)  Who/what is the beast that rose out of the sea, in Rev 13?  Devil - the hand of the devil
            2)  Who/what is the man of sin of 2 Thes 2?  Antichristian government or pressures in the world
            3)  Who/what is the little horn of Daniel 9?  Antichrist government or pressures in the world
            4)  Who/what is Mystery, Babylon the Great of Rev 17?   Possibly the Roman Catholic Church (see WCF)
            5)  Who/what is the beast that rose out of the earth, in Rev 13?   Devil - the wisdom of the devil
            6)  Who/what is the "let" of 2 Thes 2?  "no one", then the Antichristian influences
            7)  Who/what are the Locusts of Rev 9?  The power and influences of hell over wicked men
            8)  Who/what are the two witnesses of Rev 11?   The church militant - the preaching of the word and sacraments
            9)  What is the mark, name, and number of the beast, in Rev 13?  Unregenerate influences against the church
             
             
            Notice his response to question #4.  He implies the WCF could be right about Mystery Babylon's identity, but he himself won't be dogmatic about it!  What's more, when a good friend of mine said the following to one of the administrators in a PRIVATE e-mail exchange, he was promptly banned from the discussion board!
             
            "The infallible Word of God states explicitly that if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part of the book of life....
             
            The official sanctioned website of the OPC has willfully and maliciously - not from ignorance - deleted the identity of the arch-enemy of Christ and His Church, thus re-inventing the true interpretation of the Revelation which Christ infallibly wills His Elect know and understand. Of course, you must know the PCA has done likewise."
             
            Perkins and Turretin, to whom these men are particularly partial, must be rolling in their graves!
             
            One will search high and low on McMahon's website for any mention of the papal antichrist and his church, Mystery Babylon.  I find this a STARTLING revelation, considering the fact that during the Reformation era, naming antichrist and his harlot church proceeded directly out of, and was a natural result of, preaching salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone...the two proclamations, combined, being the very justification for separating from the Church of Rome!  How that founder can claim to have "a puritan's mind," yet keep the elect IN THE DARK as to THE antichrist's true identity is truly a mystery.  To make matters worse, he allows preterists to openly posit their heresy at his so-called "puritan" board.  As long as "Christ crucified" is the uniting mantra, all are welcome to insert their particular heresies without fear of chastisement or excommunication...as long as you don't pass judgment on a "reformed" Church that has expunged the identity of the man of sin from the WCF! 
             
            What that "puritan" founder IS, in fact, is a closet-futurist.  He said the following to me, in the course of our e-mail "debate:"
            "The office of the Antichrist is the papal succession.  The Antichrist himself was not Pope Innocent the III, or Pope John Paul 1st.  We will have to "see" who may be the "one" "giant" Antichrist, that man of sin, when he arises to the scene.  We can say that the line is Antichrist (and I do)." 
             
            Notice his little deceptive play on words, as he tries to make me believe he is in agreement with the Reformers and Puritans through the ages, regarding the identity of the antichrist: 
             
            "We can say that the line is Antichrist (and I do)." 
             
            The line of popes are ANTICHRIST, and the OFFICE of the Antichrist IS the papal succession, but it isn't THE ANTICHRIST.  In other words, McMahon believes the office of popes to be antichristian, and that THE Antichrist will come from that succession...but he isn't here today, nor has he come in the past. 
             
            "We will have to "see" who may be the "one" "giant" Antichrist, that man of sin, when he arises to the scene."
             
            All one has to do is look at this "puritan's" response to my 9 questions above, and his absolute opposition to the very ones he claims as spiritual ancestors is immediately made known!  Truly the wheat is being sifted from the tares, as, day after day, month after month, more and more who claim to be "reformed protestants" are showing themselves to be in bed with ROME, as they find all sorts of creative ways to relegate the antichrist's reign of terror to the past or the future, but never to the present.  
             
            "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
             
            And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
             
            They received not the love of the truth because they were sent strong delusion by God Himself.  These are obviosuly reprobates who were fitted for destruction from the foundation of the world....for the Lord never UN-elects one of His elect to damn them.  These false Christians -- tares among the wheat -- because they never received a love of the truth (a mark of being elect), believed a LIE.
             
            The "truth" that was not believed cannot refer to "rejecting the Gospel," as some believe.  The topic of the chapter is not the Gospel, but the revealing of the man of sin.  Therefore, the LIE that is believed is directly related to the revealing of the man of sin.
             
            Lord come quickly!
             
            Take care,
            Keith
             
             
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: 12/3/2004 5:06:48 PM
            Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Site Update

            Keith,
             
            what I find odd is that "conservative" (not liberal) Calvinists can't even accept it from Calvin himself in the Institutes--THE primary source of the Reformed Reformation. but yet they can accept Preterism from Sproul and others--a blatant heresy (partial or otherwise). Let's see...Calvin wrong; Sproul right!? 
             
            Amongst confessional Lutherans I have never met one who did not toally agree with Luther on the Antichrist. Not one! Why is that? I think it is because the Reformed claim to be "Reformed...but always Reforming," so in some respects these Reformed are more like Rome: the faith keeps getting revised like Bill Gate's Microsoft Word, so that only the "latest" version is the correct version. Thanks God you have been led to keep these works available.
             
            Ted

            keith dotzler <kdotz@...> wrote:
            I appreciate that bro Ted.  There are many more such works in my arsenal, which I wish to share with the brethren over the course of the coming years.  I only wish those fancy Caligraphic old English fonts wouldn't have been used...because then I could scan them, rather than having to transcribe them by hand!    ;-)
             
            Though it's time consuming to place such excerpts on the web, it's a very small price to pay....
             
            As a professing Christian (during my Arminian days), I was wholly ignorant of the existence of such works for over 11 years! 
             
            Even after my eyes were opened to the Doctrines of Grace a couple years back, I had so-called "reformed Calvinists" telling me that eschatology was all but passed over by the Reformers and post reformers, and that belief in a pre-trib rapture and premillennialism were Biblically sound, and wholly compatible with CALVINISM and REFORMED PROTESTANISM!!!  After all, you know the standard line used by those who think they're more intelligent and more in tune with the Spirit than the Reformers were: "they were only men."
             
            I have discovered, first-hand, that all who claim the name of "reformed Protestant," who say that the subject of Antichrist rarely came up before, during, or after the Reformation, are ignorantly speaking words without knowledge (to their shame).
             
            Having done the leg work necessary to acquire...
            • the MANY treatises on Antichrist that circulated during the 16th and 17th centuries (Turretin, Beard, Bradshaw, Daneau, Deios, Garrett, Gwalther, Jones, Rainolds, Osiander, Sohn, Hall, Zwingli, Becon, Barnes, Downame, Whitaker, Tyndale, Luther, etc),
            • as well as the NUMEROUS commentaries on the Revelation from the same era (Holland, Fulke, Pareus, Newton, Brightman, Mede, Junius, More, Durham, Dent, Cotton, Perkins, Cartwright, Bale),
            • not to mention the 16th & 17th century commentaries on 2 Thessalonians (Tymme, Fergusson, Squire, Jewel, Manton, Bullinger, Fulke, and Cartwright), 
            ....I find it simply INCREDIBLE that so many, many "reformed" brethren could even muster up the THOUGHT that antichrist was a non-issue...let alone making those ignorant thoughts PUBLIC!  How can such a vast library be missed?
             
            Sadly, multitudes who name the name of Christ have absolutely no idea that the testimony of the saints of the last 7+ centuries has been preserved for us in various forms....all of which points the true Church of God to the identity of the man of sin and his harlot Church -- Mystery Babylon.  These treasures are crassly cast aside and ignored by the intellectuals among us -- relegated to the "works of men" bin. 
             
            Today's professing apostate Christian thinks it more "godly" to shout "give me the Bible and nothing else," than to examine the writings of our departed brethren, to see what they believed and WHY.   Some of these pretenders then get positions in their local churches TEACHING others the false "truths" they received of the Spirit, while studying their Bible and nothing else.   Then comes the day when one of his students asks him about the identity of the antichrist.  The teacher, proud of the fact that he has his Bible and nothing else, proudly proclaims,
             
            "Why, we obviously can't know who he is, until he's revealed after the rapture!"     
             
            But, says the student, the historic Church over the course of the last 7 centuries, with one voice, has proclaimed that the Pope of Rome is the Antichrist. 
             
            "Well," says the teacher, "they were just men.  You shouldn't put much stock in their commentaries and other writings.  The Bible alone will give you the answers, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit." 
             
            Well, says the student, first of all, aren't YOU a man? 
             
            Secondly, if the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth, and if he has already guided the historic Church of the last 7 centuries into the truth about the Antichrist's identity, and if we now ignore that revelation and await our own, wouldn't we be rejecting the truth? 
             
            Thirdly, of what use are teachers, preachers, evangelists, pastors, etc, if we aren't to LISTEN TO THEM? 
             
             
             
            Take care,
            Keith 
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: 12/1/2004 10:09:29 PM
            Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Site Update

            What I attempted to say below was that I very much enjoyed the website noted by Keith below and am happy to see those important documents yet out there for all to read...for now.
             
            Ted

            urces are out thre and still readable...for now...
             
            Ted

            keith dotzler <kdotz@...> wrote:

            Friends,
             
            Our site has been updated.  
             
             
             
             
             
            In Christ,
            Keith Dotzler
             



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          • keith dotzler
            Friends, The following update can be found on our home page: In Christ, Keith Dotzler http://thebeastunmasked.com
            Message 5 of 14 , May 12 5:41 PM
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              Friends,
               
              The following update can be found on our home page:
               
               
               
               
               
              In Christ,
              Keith Dotzler
               

            • Edgar A. Ibarra Jr.
              Um, it s blank... ;-)
              Message 6 of 14 , May 12 6:37 PM
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                Um, it's blank...

                ;-)

                --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "keith dotzler"
                <kdotz@e...> wrote:
                >
                > Friends,
                >
                > The following update can be found on our home page:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > In Christ,
                > Keith Dotzler
                > http://thebeastunmasked.com
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