Re: [Covenanted Reformation] The Pope is very Antichrist.
Do you recommend a Bible translation and commentary that represents
the very best in scholarship that would command the respect of the
majority of thoughtful people in this holy catholic and apostolic
Riley: Sure. For a Bible translation I'd recommend the King James
Version. For a commentary I'd recommend Calvin's commentaries.
These have been most helpful to me.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Barry Ferguson
> Dan:coherency, and I didn't call myself a flaming apologist for the
> But I didn't say absolute coherency, I said a certain
church of Rome. I was raised in a Protestant country in a
Protestant church in the sixties - so I have strong individualist,
Lutheran, Presbyterian, American, democratic, sympathies - and have
wrestled with and given vent to marked hedonistic and bohemian
tendencies all my life in a very zestful "pursuit of happiness." (:).
>bottom of things, and the little I knew that was dangerous grew into
> "Sin when its finished is death."
> It's hard to be unbiased and impartial in trying to get to the
a little more that I knew that was confusing.
>at the time I was fighting off a great deal of chaos and
> Maybe I threw my hands up in surrender to Rome too early, but
>day and the light at the end of my tunnel.
> I am still thinking and praying my way through to the light of
>the Catechism of the Catholic Church - it has helped me to understand
> Meanwhile, there is a great deal of clarity and coherency in
the creeds better and has fostered in me a certain calm in reflecting
on, and seeking to understand, the Catholic faith.
> I believe even Pat Robertson and Billy Grahm gave it positive
>the confessions and catechisms of the church I was raised in - and I
> I also have a copy of Luther's Small and Large Catechisms and
think these through to the best of my ability and have found much
that is helpful in all of this.
>represents the very best in scholarship that would command the
> Do you recommend a Bible translation and commentary that
respect of the majority of thoughtful people in this holy catholic
and apostolic Christian forum?
> Do you dare?
> Dan Fraas <fraasrd@y...> wrote:
> "Rome has at least going for it a certain coherency among its
> its clergy, its teaching office and its leader, and it has historicin
> cohesion, ..."
> It does? Haven't you seen the war going on between rival factions
> the Roman Catholic Church on theology, liturgy, charismatic gifts,coherent
> Mariology, and the very definition of catholicity? It's not
> at all.precedent
> --- In email@example.com, Barry Ferguson
> <gogon789@y...> wrote:
> > gmw:
> > I understand and respect your views, they are clear and
> coherent, and they make sense, and can be reasonably held in
> principle and in good conscience, as you so ably do.
> > I disagree, however, that this is what Paul meant when he
> wrote this letter with regard to the man of sin.
> > I also believe that there is a very strong historic
> drawn by many fathers of the church that gives Peter a certainoffice
> and a charism in terms of leadership and primacy, and this wasconfession
> historically found in the chair of Rome. This can be scripturally
> justified, and the interpretation that applies to Peter's
> also applies to Peter's office.Reformation.
> > But this office was not meant in the autocratic way that it
> came to be understood in the middle ages, and that autocracy was
> judged by God, clearly, by way of the events that led up to the
> schism with the east and subsequently followed in the
> Apostolic authority is distributed throughout the episcopacy aswell
> as in the "sense of the faithful" and they all work upon eachother -
> and a leadership role for one bishop ensures just that -leadership,
> not lordship.rich
> > God's judgements are corrective, not punitive. History is
> not frozen back in the sixteenth century.
> > Continual splintering through the Protestant mode just
> creates more chaos and confusion and division, and God is not the
> author of confusion.
> > The people in this forum can't even agree on an authorized
> Biblical text. And if the Bible is our only source of authority,
> then what good does it do if we can't get an "authorized" version
> that is commonly agreed on among warring Protestant factions?
> > What is the standard Biblical text that is authoritative for all
> Protestants who believe that Scripture alone is the sole authority?
> > Can you tell me that without starting a huge controversy,
> either in this forum or elsewhere in the Protestant world?
> > Rome has at least going for it a certain coherency among its
> people, its clergy, its teaching office and its leader, and it has
> historic cohesion, despite the tragedy that created both major
> schisms. The Modern Catechism of the Catholic Church befits the
> teaching office of an ancient historic Christian Church. It is
> in patristic testimony and conveys sound interpretation accordingto
> what the church has believed consistently always and everywherebe
> throughout antiquity.
> > Am I a staunch and flaming apologist for the Roman Catholic
> Church? I am not. But the more I see arguments that will never
> resolved over Bibles that are apparentlly illigitimate the moregrew
> confused I become. I am not a scholar. I am a lay person. I
> up reading the Revised Standard Bible - that's what was given to merival.
> in ninth grade confirmation class. I did not know I was reading
> some sinister document subtly altered by God's hissing arch-
> I thought I was reading God's Word.the
> > The Protestant "priesthood" is composed of its so-called
> scholars, and they can't agree on anything.
> > Can they?
> > So who do we believe - and whose leadership do we follow?
> > Barry
> > gmw <raging.calvinist@v...> wrote:
> > --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Barry Ferguson
> > <gogon789@y...> wrote:
> > > gmw:
> > > Your theory makes sense if the Bishop of Rome is not in
> > subjection to the Spirit and the Word of God in obedience to
> > Christ. If he is, however, and he is who he thinks he is, then
> > could be resisting God's leadership - or His Spirit - in your own
> > life.
> > >
> > 1. Tis not merely my theory, but the dying testimony of countless
> > martyrs, and the universal position of Protestants up until very
> > recently.
> > 2. My theory makes sense if the Bishop of Rome is not in
> > to the Spirit and the Word of God in obedience to Christ. But
> > Bishop of Rome is not in subjection to the Spirit and the Word ofhimself
> > in obedience to Christ. Therefore my theory makes sense. ;)
> > > Your scripture about the "man of sin" is misapplied to the
> > > Bishop of Rome,
> > No no, and again no. The man of sin that sits himself in the
> > and usurps the position and perogatives of Christ, is the Pope of
> > Rome.
> > > he opposed Peter to his face and in doing so he did not call
> > > the anti-Christ,
> > This is correct, obviously because Peter did not claim for
> > the title or position of Pope, neither was it given to him byService.
> > Christ. It would therefore be very silly to call
> Peter "Antichrist"
> > when Peter was not Antichrist. The term certainly does apply to
> > Pope of Rome, however.
> > gmw.
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- Dan:Blessings to your and your loved ones as well.Barry
Dan Fraas <fraasrd@...> wrote:
> Are there any errors in the K.J.V.?
I don't know. I'm still a novice in Greek and Hebrew. Ask me again
in about 30 years. Right now I find the KJV to be the most accurate
and most skillful translation among all English translations which I
> Calvin and King James are both first rate, but are there no
contemporary translations or commentaries you can safely recommend?
The New King James Version is not bad. I'm not as well-read in newer
commentaries compared to the older stuff. I hear that James M. Boice
has some good stuff.
Blessings in Christ,
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