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Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Closing in on Paul's final post

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  • Peter
    ... too see God in terms of majesty and do not fully grasp the depth and degree of God s infinite humiliation in becoming man, even a man condemned under the
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 22, 2004
      > "The Mother of God" makes Calvinists nervous because they
      too see God in terms of majesty and do not fully grasp the depth and
      degree of God's infinite humiliation in becoming man, even a man
      condemned under the law hanging on a cross outside the camp - for us
      men and for our salvation.

      Ludicrous! How in the world did you get this impression? Certainly
      not from any Calvinistic standards,

      WCF VIII:4
      http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/ch_VIII.html

      WSC: Q27: Wherein did Christ's humiliation consist?
      A27: Christ's humiliation consisted in his being born, and that in
      a low condition, made under the law, undergoing the miseries of this
      life,the wrath of God, and the cursed death of the cross; in being
      buried, and continuing under the power of death for a time.

      And certainly not from Calvin:

      Commentary on Zech 9:9 ...3rdly he adds, that this king would be
      poor; for he would ride on an ass, and would be poor; for he would
      ride on an ass, and would not appear in great eminence nor be
      distinguished for arms or riches or for splendour or for number of
      soldiers, or even for royal trappings which dazzle the eyes of the
      vulgar: he shall ride on an ass.

      Commentary on Gal 4:4 Christ the Son of God, who might have claimed
      to be exempt from every kind of subjection to the law...A man who
      was free by constituting himself a surety redeems a slave: by
      putting on himself the chains he takes them off from the other

      Please read all of John Calvins commentary on Isaiah 53 to dispell
      this nasty misconception:
      http://www.ccel.org/c/calvin/comment3/comm_vol16/htm/vi.htm

      As for His humanity, actually, Lutherans and Papists don't fully
      comprehend Christ's humanity. They subvert it by their preverted
      doctrine of consubstantiation/transubstantion. If Christ truly has
      human body how can it be in at 1000 different masses and in heaven
      at the same time?

      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Barry Ferguson
      <gogon789@y...> wrote:
      > Paul:
      >
      > I think "Mother of God" makes Muslims nervous and Jews
      nervous, because they see God only in terms of the theology of
      glory - there is an infinite qualitative distinction between God and
      man, and God is so utterly transcendent that we cannot pronounce his
      name without profaning ourselves. Christians, however, do not know
      God as He is in himself, in glory and in majesty. They know him
      primarily through Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and
      Muslims and foolishness to purely rational human minds that have not
      received the light of grace.
      >
      > "The Mother of God" makes Calvinists nervous because they
      too see God in terms of majesty and do not fully grasp the depth and
      degree of God's infinite humiliation in becoming man, even a man
      condemned under the law hanging on a cross outside the camp - for us
      men and for our salvation.
      >
      > The "humanity of God" or even the earthiness of God is
      just too much for Calvinists, and I think Luther understood these
      things better than most others, though Luther so tasted God at both
      extremes (majesty and humiliation) that Luther seems scizophrenic,
      sometimes flaring out like Amos and other times as tender as a
      mother hen desiring to gather the chicks under her wing.
      >
      > Not only did God allow himself to have a human mother, God
      allows himself to be consumed, body, blood, soul and divinity.
      This does not diminish God but divinizes those who partake and does
      not put out the consuming fire but consumes those who partake of the
      purifying, sanctifying flame of the holy, loving, eternal God -
      neither does it reduce God to finitude but gives a share of the
      infinite personal God to any number of takers whose souls are
      circumscribed by bodies in space and in time.
      >
      > The scandal of Christianity is that the God of glory who
      thundered from Mount Sinai has a human mother who he has elevated to
      sit with him in glory in union and communion and in fellowship with
      redeemed sinners in heaven and redeemed mortal limbs on earth. It
      is all part of God's foolishness, God's weakness, it is part and
      parcel of the scandal of the cross and the power of God working
      through apostles drooling from the mouth in a high chair in Rome or
      afflicted with some sort of eye sore in Galatia - and received by
      the community as men sent from God.
      >
      >
      > Barry Douglas Ferguson
      >
      >
      >
      > Anglicananswer@a... wrote:
      > In a message dated 9/21/04 10:07:19 AM Central Daylight Time,
      gogon789@y... writes:
      >
      > I did not know that Calvinists acknowledged Mary as the Mother of
      God, they do not broadcast it very loud.
      >
      >
      >
      > The Protestant Reformers did not object to this but their heirs do.
      > It makes them nervous. But again...I must add that the Protestant
      Reformers were attempting to honor Mary as the Mother of our Lord,
      etc.
      > They did not believe in her as a mediator.
      >
      > Barry...you must admit....the Augustinian form of christianity
      (especially on grace and predestination) does not match what
      developed after the 6th century and even today in Roman Catholicism.
      > Augustine's anti-pelagian writings are tremendous...but they do
      not seem shared by most Roman Catholic theologians....even the
      Vatican II ones.
      >
      > What do you think?
      >
      > Paul
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