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16632Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Los Angeles bound

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  • Jerry
    Dec 5, 2008
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      There are plenty of people pretending to have a call from God that for various reasons clearly do not.

      Some show by their doctrine that they are not called by God:

      Joyce Meyers
      Benny Hinn
      Oral Roberts and his family
      The Pope

      Others have not been properly called externally by the church (else what is ordination or the laying on of hands found in Scripture?).  I have seen this first hand, and the results were disastrous.  Denying the external call of the church is to force God's people to be ruled by those who impose themselves on the church without consent of the people.  Furthermore, you are also suggesting that people must submit to you even if you don't have a proper education.

      The extraordinary cases of Moses, Paul, etc., are not normative.  Ministers today are not to expect a burning bush, nor are they called to be Apostles.  The normative teaching of Scripture is that ministers are to be called by God, and ordained by the ministers of the church, and consented to by the people to which the minister is called to minister -- the particulars of which you've seen discussed here over the past few posts.

      I'll skip Spurgeon and recommend to you Gillespie and Durham:

      http://www.truecovenanter.com/gillespie/ggilles_miscqs_04.html

      http://www.reformed.org/ecclesiology/durham_calling.html

      gmw.


      Charles Barden wrote:

      ok fair enough...

      How else would you be able to say that you have been called.  No one in their right mind would say publicly that they were called unless they were called.  Who are you to say what God has done or has not done?  If God is in control and is truly sovereign then why do you question His authority?  Did a man or group approve Moses' call?  Did a man or group approve the call of Christ?  How about for the 12 apostles?  No they were all elected!  You might be wise to read what Spurgeon said of ordination.  And since I am in Bible College right now, and we are in a financial crisis, and I am paying for school with loans, what would happen if I could not go to school any longer?  Would I depend on a council to approve my call?  If someone shows up and just out of the blue claims to be a minister with no credentials, what do you think is going to happen?  They will be ignored...so what's your point?  Besides, who made you the pope of the reformed church anyway?  I understand the need for rules and regulations but this presbytery is unscriptural. 

      In Christ alone,

      Charles Barden
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "gmw" <ragingcalvinist@ verizon.net>
      To: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
      Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 8:43:44 AM (GMT-0500) America/New_ York
      Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Los Angeles bound

      --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com, Charles Barden
      <cbarden@...> wrote:
      >
      > I am confused...I thought the call came from God and not from me.

      So if I show up among a group of people and say, "God called me to be
      your pastor," such a call is sufficient for you to submit to such a
      ministry?

      > You are right when you say "this is so nauseatingly presbyterian" . >
      Legalism and clanging gongs.

      You should now define legalism. You should also now show why
      accurately articulating the Scriptural model of the calling to the
      ministry is what you call legalism and the clanging of gongs.

      gmw.

      > In Christ,
      > Charles
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Ben Hart" <benjamin.hart1@ ...>
      > To: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 5:22:56 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected
      > Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Los Angeles bound
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Nathan,
      >
      > I wish you and your family the best, and that the installation
      process goes in a way that is for God's glory.
      >
      > For everyone else, this is all so nauseatingly presbyterian. Surely
      there are more profitable things to expend our energy on than this.
      >
      > -Ben
      >
      >
      >
      > On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Glenn Ferrell < jglennferrell@ ... >
      wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Edgar:
      >
      > A minister, elder or candidate for a call should be careful not to
      use language presuming what is not yet real. Though Nathan is probalby
      speaking out of the excitement and anticipation of a move and future
      ministry, he can not under current RPCNA polity have accepted a call.
      >
      >
      > Glenn
      >
      > J. Glenn Ferrell, Pastor, Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian Church,
      Boise, Idaho http://sovereignred eemer.org
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To: covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com
      > From: puritanpresbyterian @...
      > Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 17:58:14 +0000
      >
      > Subject: Re: [Covenanted Reformation] Los Angeles bound
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > > James 4:13 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow £we will
      > go to such
      > > and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a
      > profit";
      > > 14whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your
      > > life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then
      > > vanishes away. 15Instead you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we
      > shall
      > > live and do this or that." 16But now you boast in your arrogance.
      > All
      > > such boasting is evil.
      > >
      >
      > > He may have been informed of an intended call, and given an intent to
      > > accept it; but he really should not have been called and cannot
      accept
      > > it; especially since he has not passed his final examinations. I have
      > > never been comfortable with the practice of scheduling exams,
      > ordination
      > > and installation all at the same time. It puts an undue
      expectation to
      > > vote "sustained" upon the elders at the meeting, and violates a
      > > scriptural principle.
      >
      > But Larry, can he and we in general not plan for such and such an
      event?
      > Of course as the Lord wills, but can things not be scheduled to be
      done,
      > and in this specific case, things accomplished without the expectation
      > that the outcome can only be one result? If elders are feeling
      > pressured to vote one way, then shame on them if they cave in to that
      > pressure, but I do not think that is the fault of the whole per se
      > especially of the candidate. In the end there is always a pressure to
      > vote the party line or what the majority holds instead of voting
      > according to what one's conscience believes to be according to God's
      > Word.
      >
      > Just a thought, no more.
      >
      > Edgar
      >
      > --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com , Larry Bump <lbump@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Glenn Ferrell wrote:
      > > > Nathan:
      > > >
      > > > Where is the RP Church in LA. I lived in the LA area for five
      years.
      > > > It is not an easy place for an Easterner to live; but there were
      > some
      > > > things I liked about it, especially the weather in January.
      > > >
      > > > I might caution you on your non-Presbyterian language used in
      > > > describing your call. Can one under RPCNA polity "accept a call"
      > > > before it and you have been approved by presbytery?
      > > >
      > > Technically he has not been certified eligible to receive a call, and
      > if
      > > he was actually forwarded a call by Presbytery someone messed up;
      > > licentiates are not to be given a call.
      > > He may have been informed of an intended call, and given an intent to
      > > accept it; but he really should not have been called and cannot
      accept
      > > it; especially since he has not passed his final examinations. I have
      > > never been comfortable with the practice of scheduling exams,
      > ordination
      > > and installation all at the same time. It puts an undue
      expectation to
      > > vote "sustained" upon the elders at the meeting, and violates a
      > > scriptural principle.
      > > James 4:13 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow £we will
      > go to such
      > > and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a
      > profit";
      > > 14whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your
      > > life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then
      > > vanishes away. 15Instead you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we
      > shall
      > > live and do this or that." 16But now you boast in your arrogance.
      > All
      > > such boasting is evil.
      > >
      >


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