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15430[Covenanted Reformation] Re: On going events

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  • humbled.learner
    Mar 4, 2007
      I never said anything about excommunication, nor implied it. Nor, did
      anyone say anything about a paper coming out to defend any sort of
      excommunications, nor imply it. Cheryl said, "The elders of the
      pretended court were willing to excommunicate and discipline people on
      the basis of documents that have *only recently* come to light!?!"
      I'm assuming she got this from Bob's statements below, but certainly
      did not get them from my statements.

      Some asked about doing research to get both sides of the story, and I
      suggested Bob's site was a good link, plus that recently additional
      information has come to light that the Elders would address in a paper
      or booklet. How anyone took my comments to mean that the Elders
      excommunicated all these people based upon false information or
      insufficient information is beyond me.

      Again, if you want to read the basis upon which the excommunications
      were completed, you will find almost all the documents posted on Bob's
      website. The future paper will discuss the topic of secret societies
      or hidden societies operating within a Church. It is my understanding
      that it will not be written to support the excommunications, but I
      have not asked this question of the Elders. My GUESS GUESSS GUESS is
      that it will not be written to support the excommunications, because
      it really has nothing to do with the excommunications. If you want to
      know the basis for the excommunications, READ BOB'S WEBSITE!

      As for the content of the further paper, I have no idea its content.

      Bob, in closing, I would ask that you keep this message confidential
      to this forum. I understand Gerry does allow these messages to be
      posted over the internet, and they are not private, but I only wanted
      to clarify that I had nothing with saying to anyone on this site what
      Cheryl alleges above.

      I never made that statement, nor did I imply it. She is entitled to
      her own comments, but all it takes is someone to say to someone else
      that I said that about this future paper, and it simply is not true.

      Thank you for allowing me to clarify. Again, read Bob's site if you
      want to see the history of the excommunications, and if you have
      questions contact those excommunicated, and the Elders directly for
      both sides of the story...should you so desire. If you don't want
      your emails, comments or questions published on Bob's sites, I
      recommend you specifically ask they be private otherwise they could
      and will be published without your consent. This I know is possible.


      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, Cheryl Grenon
      <knoxknoxwhosthere@...> wrote:
      > I have been sick to death for the last five months of the whole
      debacle with the pretended RPNA. It isn't my intention to quell
      discussion on it, however. I want to be sure I have this straight --
      > The elders of the pretended court were willing to excommunicate and
      discipline people on the basis of documents that have *only recently*
      come to light!?! As one of the excommunicated, I can only say that it
      is uncharitable to the extreme to discipline people on something that
      was not clearly taught and for which supporting documentation was
      found after the fact!
      > These wolves in elders' clothing have much to answer for.
      > Cheryl
      > ----- Original Message ----
      > From: bob_suden <bsuden@...>
      > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 12:01:53 AM
      > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: On going events
      > Greetings Walter,
      > Sorry to take so long getting back to you.
      > Thanks also for putting in a good word for the Reformed Presbyterian
      Veritas site and the RPNA(GM) timeline .
      > Unfortunately your post ignores one of the main reasons for the
      site in the first place. The church of our Lord Jesus Christ is not a
      gnostic organization. That includes the covenanted Reformed
      Presbyterian Church/Reformed Presbytery, much more pretenders to the
      same. There are no arcane or occult terms of communion necessary for
      > In other words, just how long are we to wait for more secret and
      obscure documents to be published and come to light? How many more
      gospels of Thomas or yet undiscovered epistles of Paul are we yet to
      wait for and reserve all judgement in the mean time? Just when will
      the long lost covenanter version of the Raiders of the Lost Ark be
      screening at a theater near you? How long before the DVD version ships
      to a video store around the corner from my house?
      > In other words, if things are not so crystal clear and the heart of
      the matter is yet to be uncovered and studied, it is not too much to
      call those who are willing to excommunicate brethren from the visible
      church of the Lord Jesus Christ on said undecided/unstudied topics
      "innovators and tyrants." (The poor souls, one wonders what they
      would do if someone did to them what they have summarily and illegally
      done to others.) That, as well as irresponsible and amateurish
      bunglers who have overreached themselves and consequently need to
      repent and make restitution for their premature and presumptuous
      decisions for which they had no reasonable basis or scriptural rationale.
      > Even further, even if the elders of the former RPNA are correct in
      the future final analysis, they have done an abysmal – if not
      incomplete, as you admit – job in the here and now of publicly
      expounding their position from Scripture, reason and history. If at
      long last they do come up with a genuine public vindication of their
      extraordinary court, having finally stumbled upon that illusory
      silver bullet – which you say you are patiently waiting for – they
      still have appealed to and argued from implicit faith all along, as
      well as excommunicated on the basis of that same ignorance.
      > But if that is not categorically unacceptable from anybody who would
      be considered a faithful covenanted and reformed presbyterian elder,
      whether teaching or ruling, never mind a court, I don't know what is.
      Neither, I would respectfully suspect, do you or anybody else,
      including the three brethren in question.
      > Promises are promises though, however unofficial, of more to come
      from these same brethren. While we wait breathlessly for the same, on
      the other hand we are bold in Christ to say that some further Further
      Remarks on the PPSA are now available, as in the first installment of
      "A Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste - Unless One is a Faithful Member
      in Good Standing in the RPNA(GM) . " This addresses the instances
      the PPSA tramples on and contradicts the light of natural reason, much
      more reasonable arguments and as a consequence why the long running
      United Negro College Fund slogan should apply to those who can swallow
      the PPSA and the oath that supports it.
      > Deo volente the rest of the installments shall appear before the
      promised booklet below, not that I suppose it might make any
      difference to those who are intent on smothering that same light, but
      one can always hope.
      > cordially yours,
      > in Christ
      > B. Suden
      > --- In covenantedreformati onclub@yahoogrou ps.com,
      "humbled.learner" <humbled.learner@ ...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Whit,
      > >
      > > As I understand from the Elders, there will be coming out another
      > > paper or booklet discussing some of the unpublished documents that led
      > > up to the series of events that caught many of us off guard. Some of
      > > these documents have recently come to light and I believe the Elders
      > > will begin to study these documents as well. Sometimes things are not
      > > so crystal clear at first look. I'll be patiently waiting to see this
      > > next set of documents when they are published to make a more informed
      > > decision as to the entire picture. I would ask you to please wait as
      > > well and indeed encourage you to read Bob S. site as he has done a
      > > nice job of laying out the public events we know of so far. I think
      > > the real heart of matter is just being uncovered and studied.
      > >
      > > I suspect their report will not come for another month or so as I
      > > understand, but it will be forthcoming. Nobody indeed, especially
      > > Elders, like to be classified tyrants and innovators. I think these
      > > next set of documents and the Elders paper/booklet will help balance
      > > the scales for many who have already ruled against them.
      > >
      > > May you be blessed,
      > > Walt.
      > >
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