Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

14086Re: Steelites

Expand Messages
  • Fred blahous
    Nov 12, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Not likely to happen unless there is a major revival in the Southern
      lands. I just don't see "Mad Dog" Adair and Gerry Adams allowing
      anyone to live in peace if they can help it. I wish they would both
      follow the example of Bobby Sands and go on hungar strike. I don't
      think either would be missed.

      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Whit"
      <covie_pres.1646@v...> wrote:
      >
      > Charles II as King of Ireland? Jumping Jehosaphat! Charles II is
      > nothing more than a Ursurper both regarding the Covenanted
      > Reformation (after he broke the Covenants) and Ireland. I long
      for
      > the day of a re-united Ireland (i.e, re-united under the
      Covenants)
      > and a re-united Three Kingdoms.
      >
      > Whit
      >
      > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Edgar A. Ibarra
      > Jr." <puritanpresbyterian@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > ¡Bienvienido Hermano!
      > >
      > > The term "Steelites" was given to the Covenanters that
      continue
      > > to adhere to the entire Second Reformation of 1638-1649
      (inclusive)
      > > and to the faithful Covenanters during the "Killing Times" of
      1660-
      > > 1688, of today. The few Covenanters that were left at the
      > > Revolution of King William of Orange, refused to join the re-
      > > established Church of Scotland, since it was re-established on
      the
      > > King's terms and not on the terms of the Church. In 1650, when
      > King
      > > Charles II assumed the throne to Scotland, England, & Ireland,
      he
      > > swore that he would uphold the Solemn League and Covenant and
      that
      > > he would punish any who sought to overturn it. His taking the
      > > throne to be King was dependant upon his faithfulness to the
      Solemn
      > > League and Covenant. He swore that he would maintain it and to
      > > break it meant he no longer could sit as King. Well, he broke
      it
      > > and unleashed a brutal persecution against any that stood in his
      > > way. King James II, his Papist brother, continued it. Richard
      > > Cameron and other faithful Covenanters resisted the King and
      > > continued to worship God as He had commanded and refused to go
      > along
      > > with the King's usurpation. The civil magistrates became
      ruthless
      > > tyrants and used all means necessary (torturing the laypeople,
      > taxes
      > > (also known as the cess), confiscation of property,
      imprisonment,
      > > rape of women, and murder) to hunt down and kill the ministers
      of
      > > Christ that still held the Covenants. King Charles passed the
      Acts
      > > Recissory stating that the Covenants were "seditious,
      treasonable,
      > > and against his crown, the very covenant he had sworn to uphold,
      > the
      > > very covenant that defined him as a lawful civil magistrate and
      > > allowed him to be lawfully on the throne. At the Revolution
      > > Settlement, King William did not rescind the Acts Recessiory and
      he
      > > set up the Church of Scotland on his terms. Only the
      Westminster
      > > Confession of Faith was allowed to be the standard of the church
      > > without allowance of the others. When he and parliament (most
      of
      > > who were part of the persecution) had laid out how the Church of
      > > Scotland was to be restored, he called a GA the following year
      and
      > > told them how they were to be structured.
      > >
      > > The few remaining Covenanters protested and would not join
      the
      > > vast majority of already sold out/indulged ministers (these were
      > > those that made compromises to King Charles & King James to
      spare
      > > their lives, in exchange they had to submit to the Bishops and
      > state
      > > that the Covenants were treasonable and they held no allegiance
      to
      > > them, among other things). When 3 ministers from the
      Covenanters
      > > tried to persuade the other ministers to press the King to
      rescind
      > > the Acts Recissory and renew the Solemn League and Covenant and
      > make
      > > the Standards the charter of the Church as it was during 1638-
      1649,
      > > the 3 were rebuked and scolded. The 3 submitted and joined the
      > > Revolution Church and the most prolonged division in
      Presbyterian
      > > history began. That being the Covenanters, that remained
      faithful
      > > to the Church of Scotland and the Westminster Standards of 1638-
      > 1649
      > > vs. the Revolution Church, which was a brand new Presbyterian
      > church
      > > with her own new constitution and charter.
      > >
      > > All but two Presbyterian churches in the United States
      descend
      > > from this Revolution Settlement Church (In Europe it is a
      similar
      > > situation). The two that do not are the Reformed Presbyterian
      > > Church of North America (RPCNA) and the Reformed Presbytery of
      > North
      > > America (RPNA).
      > >
      > > Here is where we get to the heart of your question. The
      RPCNA
      > > held to the Covenanters' testimony until they changed their
      > > constitution in the mid-1800's and no longer held that the
      Solemn
      > > League & Covenant was binding upon the United States of America,
      > > although I am not sure if they still believe it is on the United
      > > Kingdom. They also adopted other items that were contrary to
      the
      > > Standards of Westminster and further broke their Covenanted
      oath.
      > > They continue to believe in the ordinance of Covenanting, so
      > > therefore they call themselves Covenanters because of that, but
      > they
      > > do not hold to what the original Covenanters held to. During
      this
      > > defection of the RPCNA, one of their ministers along with some
      > other
      > > Church Officers protested this defection. When there was no
      desire
      > > on the part of the Synod to repent of their Covenant breaking,
      they
      > > left the RPCNA to continue the faithful Covenanted Church and
      > formed
      > > the Reformed Presbytery of North America (RPNA). The leading
      > person
      > > was David Steele. These officers sought to maintain the
      Covenanted
      > > Testimony and to continue to uphold the Covenanted Reformation
      > > against all defection and back-sliding.
      > >
      > > So, when the Puritan Reformed Church in Edmonton rediscovered
      > > these Covenanted truths and decided to adopt them and thereby
      > return
      > > to the faithful paths of true Biblical Presbyterianism they
      > repented
      > > of their participation as a Church of being part of the schism
      of
      > > the Revolution Church/Settlement and of having backslidden from
      the
      > > Covenanted Second Reformation (1638-1649) and having adopted
      > > doctrines contrary to the Covenanted Second Reformation Church.
      > > Many decried them and wrote extensive papers against these
      Elders
      > > and were named "Steelites" by their opponents for being
      followers
      > of
      > > David Steele. Many attributing the doctrinal distinctives as
      novel
      > > and made up by David Steele. Only a very few of our opponents
      > > recognize that we are Camerionian Covenanters, i.e. those who
      hold
      > > still that the Solemn League and Covenant is binding upon the
      UK,
      > > USA, Canada, and Australia (all of these being offspring of UK
      and
      > > since the Solemn League & Covenant bound all of her posterity,
      so
      > > then these nations are so bound). I have all of this (the
      > Standards
      > > of Westminster) translated into Spanish:
      www.espanol.albanycrpc.org
      > >
      > > I am a member of the RPNA and live in Albany NY. Our doctrine
      is
      > > NOT new as even a brief glance of history pre-1700's will most
      > > readily demonstrate. The main problem in Presbyterianism today
      is
      > > the rampant mindset of American pluralism and toleration of
      other
      > > religions. This is most visible in the revision of the
      Westminster
      > > Standards in 1782, of ch. 23. In there it is not
      Presbyterianism
      > > that is of divine right and to be the only recognized Church
      form
      > of
      > > government in the Country nor the Westminster doctrines either,
      per
      > > se. Instead the new revision states that the government will
      > > acknowledge ALL Christian denominations and protect them all.
      Now
      > > the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, the Presbyterian Church in
      > > America, and another (I cannot recall which) are the larger of
      the
      > > Presbyterian Churches that hold to this. Most of the smaller
      > > Presbyterian churches do not, including the RPNA, RPCNA, the
      PRC,
      > > and other smaller ones. Although they are all offspring of the
      > > Revolution Church (Except the RPCNA & RPNA).
      > >
      > > The RPNA seeks to promote unity in the body of Christ WITHOUT
      > > compromising the Covenanted Reformation Attainments of 1638-
      1649.
      > > The Church of then achieved a Covenanted Uniformity of religion
      > > wherein all in the 3 kingdoms were of One Doctrine, One Worship,
      > One
      > > Government, and One Discipline and based on the Solemn League
      and
      > > Covenant, which Covenant was in keeping with the Holy
      Scriptures.
      > > Sure not ALL in the UK did join in this unity, but it was the
      brief
      > > reality and fulfillment of John 17. This Covenant was promoted
      and
      > > upheld by all the Westminster Divines, including the Scottish
      > > Comissioners: Alexander Henderson, George Gillespie, Samuel
      > > Rutherford & etc. One of the English Covenanters that is well
      > > known, Christopher Love died in prison under Oliver Cromwell,
      > > because he refused to renounce the Covenant. The King was about
      to
      > > martyr Samuel Rutherford for the same, but God took him a few
      days
      > > before the King could kill him.
      > >
      > > It is a hard stand for us to be separated from our brethren
      at
      > > this time, but we believe, as did the Covenanters of old that
      > > loyalty to God and His Truth is to be valued and upheld above
      calls
      > > to compromise for the sake of a shaky and covenant breaking
      unity
      > > NOT based on that maintaince of Truth, even if it means a low-
      > > intensity persecution or ridiculing on the part of fellow
      > brethren.
      > > The Covenanters during the "Killing Times" suffered more from
      > fellow
      > > Indulged Presbyterians than by the ravenous King and his
      murderous
      > > soldiers.
      > >
      > > Below are links to historical works written by ministers.
      The
      > > first two are written by ministers of the Reformed Presbyterian
      > > Church of Scotland, the sister church to the RPCNA, back in the
      > > 1800's. The first is brief summary of the history and rise of
      the
      > > Reformed Presbyterians (another term used to describe
      Covenanters)
      > > and the second outlines the reality of the Revolution Settlement
      > and
      > > what it brought about. The third is a work written by
      Covenanters
      > > in 1806 and what they stood for and why they remained separate
      (you
      > > will find that what the RPNA holds to today is exactly what they
      > did
      > > in 1806 and this PRE-DATES David Steele). The last one is the
      > > official history from the beginning of the First Reformation up
      to
      > > and including the founding of the RPNA under David Steele. It
      is
      > > one of the Covenanter's Standards today (I plan to translate
      this
      > > late next year or early 2007, if the Lord wills and gives me the
      > > ability).
      > >
      > > http://www.covenanter.org/RPScotland/Principles/lecture1.htm
      > >
      > > http://www.covenanter.org/RPScotland/Principles/lecture4.htm
      > >
      > > www.covenanter.org/RefPres/shortaccount.htm
      > >
      > > www.gutenberg.org/dirs/1/3/2/0/13200/13200.txt
      > >
      > > Now there is another Covenanter group, which the Moderador of
      this
      > e-
      > > group belongs too, but they do not have any Church Officers,
      > > although we in the RPNA love these brethren very dearly and we
      are
      > > friends. Gerry (the Moderator), I count as a friend and fellow
      > > upholder of the Covenanter Testimony. Why were are not
      together, I
      > > rather not touch that here, now. Suffice it to say we are a lot
      > > closer than many think, IMO. I thought I would just mention
      that
      > > however, to be fair that the RPNA are not the only Camerionian
      > > Covenanters still around.
      > >
      > > I know that my post will generate many upset posts and make re-
      > > stir debates long debated on this e-group once again. That
      seems
      > to
      > > be the legacy of the schism of the Revolution Church that
      plagues
      > > the Covenanted Church of Scotland BIBLICALLY established and
      > > promoted by faithful General Assemblies between 1638-1649, to
      this
      > > day. Not until the decendents of the Revolution Church
      recognize
      > > their continuing schism and covenant-breaking from the lawfully
      and
      > > faithfully established Church, established upon Biblical
      examples
      > of
      > > true Covenanted Reformation, and repent of it and rejoin the
      > > Covenanted Church of Scotland, as we of the RPNA have, will the
      > > debate end.
      > >
      > > I hope that aids to answer your question. I am sure many
      more
      > > will arise, however.
      > >
      > > Hermano, lo siento sí se oye duro mi carta, pero la Verdad
      sigue
      > > siendo atacado, y soy firme en mantenerlo. Por otro tema,
      ¿conoce
      > > Ud a Ismael Nova? Se comunicó conmigo, pero su correo
      electrónico
      > > no fue aceptado cuando le conteste. Sí lo conoce, porque es de
      > > Colombia y mencionó que es de una iglesia Presbiteriana pequeña,
      > > como Ud lo mencionó, ¿favor de decirle que me escriba de nuevo?
      > > También me encantaría tener díagolo con Ud y otros hermanos de
      > > Colombia. He aquí mí correo personal: PuritanPresbyterian@y...
      > >
      > > No offense brethren, I am bilingual and always speak both
      > > languages. I do not believe in American assimilation nor in
      keeping
      > > my language and culture in my house alone and private. I reject
      > > that part of the Right Wing rubbish (to put it mildly) that
      comes
      > > across the talk radio and by other American Nationalists (and I
      was
      > > a U.S. Marine for 8 yrs), I know who were the first immigrants
      > here,
      > > pilgrims.
      > > Assimilation, HAH!!!
      > >
      > >
      > > Yours in Christ Jesus,
      > > in whom this Darwinian
      > > separation of peoples
      > > is null and void,
      > >
      > > Edgar Ibarra
      > > Communicant Member
      > > Reformed Presbytery of North America
      > > Albany, New York
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In
      > > covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "theophilus_murray"
      > > <theophilus_murray@y...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello, I am new here. I am from Colombia and I belong to a
      > > > Presbyterian Church in my country.
      > > >
      > > > I would like to know what is the different between the
      Steelites
      > > and
      > > > the other covenanters?
      > > >
      > > > Thanks.
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Show all 11 messages in this topic