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12853[Covenanted Reformation] Re: Text types

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  • Edgar A. Ibarra Jr.
    May 5 7:20 PM
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      Brother Keith,

      > I am neither Lutheran NOR Baptist.
      >

      I know you are not a Lutheran, but I believed you were/are a
      Reformed Baptist from the profile I saw on you. If I was wrong here,
      please forgive me.

      > I WAS Baptist for 11 years, and, prior to that, Roman Catholic
      from childhood. Since my eyes were opened to the Doctrines of Grace
      and the Papal Antichrist, I now consider myself an elect child of
      God (who has mercy on whom He will have mercy...leaving vast
      multitudes yet blinded to things I, by His grace alone, now see),
      and proudly consider myself Reformed and truly Protestant.
      >

      I praise God with you that you are Reformed and that the LORD has
      made you His!

      As for the rest of my comments, they were directed in a more general
      sense, although addressed to you and Dr. Letis as well. Now, if you
      do in fact worship God as He has commanded and do not employ the use
      of man-made hymns and etc., then I praise God and rejoice that He
      has freed you from this idolatry, and if I perceived that you were
      still trapped in that idolatry from my lack of memory, then I also
      ask for you forgiveness here. But, you must also admit that the
      great majority of Protestants, including those calling themselves
      Reformed, have drunk from the cup of idolatry when it comes to the
      public worship of God and engage in will-worship and have followed
      Rome in this instance. Many hack at the branches of Romanism, while
      not going after the root, lest they find themselves chopping at the
      root that they themselves share with Rome.

      If I misunderstood you, Keith in this regards, my humble apologies.

      Yours in Christ,

      Edgar

      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "keith dotzler"
      <kdotz@e...> wrote:
      >
      > Bro Edgar,
      >
      > I am neither Lutheran NOR Baptist.
      >
      > I WAS Baptist for 11 years, and, prior to that, Roman Catholic
      from childhood. Since my eyes were opened to the Doctrines of Grace
      and the Papal Antichrist, I now consider myself an elect child of
      God (who has mercy on whom He will have mercy...leaving vast
      multitudes yet blinded to things I, by His grace alone, now see),
      and proudly consider myself Reformed and truly Protestant.
      >
      >
      > "...when will you give up your will-worship and truly worship God
      as He has commanded, i.e. singing using the 150 Psalms alone without
      the use of instruments, observing the Lord's Day alone & not
      other "holy"-days, not having pictures of hippies anywhere and call
      those pictures of hippies, "Jesus", and other religious symbols that
      cause veneration, abandoning the false notions of Consubstantiation
      (which is Rome in disguise), and etc."
      >
      >
      > What makes you think I am a will-worshipper, sing to instruments
      at "church," observe "holy" days, have pictures of Jesus hanging on
      my walls, and venerate crosses and other religious symbols?
      >
      > Regarding pictures of Jesus and other religious symbols, I whole-
      heartedly agree with Claude of Turin (9th century), when he states:
      >
      >
      > "God commands us to bear our cross, and not to worship it; but
      these are all for worshipping it; whereas they do not bear it at
      all, neither will they bear it either corporally or spiritually: to
      serve God after this manner is to go a whoring from him. For if we
      ought to adore the cross, because Christ was fastened to it, how
      many other things are there which touched Jesus Christ, and which he
      made according to the flesh? Did not he continue nine months in the
      womb of the Virgin? Why do not they then on the same score worship
      all that are virgins, because a virgin brought forth Jesus Christ?
      Why do not they adore mangers and old clouts, because he was laid in
      a manger, and wrapped in swaddling clothes? Why do not they adore
      fisher-boats, because he slept in one of them, and preached to the
      multitudes, and caused a net to be cast out, wherewith was caught a
      miraculous quantity of fish? Let them adore asses, because he
      entered into Jerusalem upon the foal of an ass; and lambs, because
      it is written of him, Behold the Lamb of God, that taketh away the
      sins of the world. But these sort of men would rather eat live lambs
      than worship their images. Why do not they worship lions, because he
      is called the Lion of the tribe of Judah? Or rocks, because it is
      said, And the Rock was Christ? or thorns, because he was crowned
      with them? or lances, because one of them pierced his side?" (Claude
      of Turin - 9th century witness against the Papacy, cited by Peter
      Allix in The Ecclesiastical History of the Ancient Churches of the
      Piedmont and the Albigenses, chap. 9)
      >
      >
      > Keith
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Edgar A. Ibarra Jr.
      > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: 5/5/2005 4:50:13 PM
      > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: Text types
      >
      >
      > Keith,
      >
      > You wrote:
      > > The notion that the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures can't be purely
      > translated into the English tongue is a lie from the pit of hell,
      > and wreaks of Popery.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Keith
      >
      > Now, if you are so dogmatic and emphatic to make this judgment on
      > this issue, then why are you not more emphatic to condemn will-
      > worship, i.e. singing man-made hymns, use of instruments in public
      > worship, celebrating holy-days (xmas & easter), and etc.?
      >
      > I understand that you and I rightly understand & agree that the
      > Papacy is the Anit-Christ and for the right reasons, but you are
      yet
      > to give up the very foundation that makes all people follow after
      > the Beast, which is WILL-WORSHIP, that is truly from the very
      depths
      > of the pit of hell (to use your imagery). It's funny and ironic
      > that Lutherans and Baptists rail against the Church of Rome and
      that
      > whore named the Pope, yet follow her steps when it comes to
      worship.
      >
      > It is easy to bash the Pope, but it is very hard to get off the
      > Appian Way, when you don't realize that you are walking the same
      > path that Rome would have all people on, namely the road that
      leads
      > to worshipping the Beast. Will-Worship leads to that.
      >
      > Keith and Dr, Letis, when will you really begin to lay the ax to
      the
      > root of the Anti-Christ to make true and deep cuts into her? In
      > other words, when will you give up your will-worship and truly
      > worship God as He has commanded, i.e. singing using the 150 Psalms
      > alone without the use of instruments, observing the Lord's Day
      alone
      > & not other "holy"-days, not having pictures of hippies anywhere
      and
      > call those pictures of hippies, "Jesus", and other religious
      symbols
      > that cause veneration, abandoning the false notions of
      > Consusbtantation (which is Rome in disguise), and etc.
      >
      > The LORD God of Hosts MUST be first, then comes our desires, as
      > long as they do not clash with God's will and Law towards us.
      >
      > You MUST die to self...mortify your flesh...you are not yours,
      but
      > have been BOUGHT with a price and are now a SLAVE to righteousness
      > and will-worship is NOT righteousness...be faithful to your Master
      > and Friend.
      >
      >
      > Let God be true though every man a liar.
      >
      >
      > For His Crown & Glory,
      >
      > Edgar
      >
      >
      > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "keith dotzler"
      > <kdotz@e...> wrote:
      > > One thing I would like to say is that I agree with you that no
      > translation of the original languages is at all pure....
      > >
      > > Careful, Dan. What about Joseph's conversation with his
      brethren,
      > prior to their recognizing him as their long-lost brother? He
      spoke
      > to them in Egyptian, using an interpreter (Gen. 42:23), yet the
      > whole account appears in the "original language" of Hebrew. Does
      > that constitute a "pure" translation, or not?
      > >
      > > It never ceases to amaze me how a translation from Greek and
      > Hebrew into English can't possibly be pure, yet a translation from
      > Egyptian (Joseph, Pharaoh, Moses) and Chaldean (Nebuchadnezzar,
      > Daniel) into Hebrew CAN.
      > >
      > > The notion that the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures can't be purely
      > translated into the English tongue is a lie from the pit of hell,
      > and wreaks of Popery.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Keith
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      >
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      >
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