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12595Re: [Covenanted Reformation]AntiChrist Dead or Alive, and Pope John Paul

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  • abusharmaranthkarimsunthaharama
    Apr 4, 2005
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      Jason,

      I am not sure you understood what I meant. Is there an AntiChrist
      right now? Or, are there times when the AntiChrist is dead, and
      other times when the AntiChrist is alive?







      --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Robert
      Schuiling" <jrschuiling@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Certainly the Polish man named Karol Jozef Wojtyla(John Paul II)
      > died yesterday, but the Papacy remains alive and well. This is in
      > fact, I believe, one of its strongest and most threatening
      positions
      > at this time. Any time there is a Papl vacancy the antichristian
      > threat is perhaps at its greatest potential, seeing that a man of
      > even greater inert wickedness than the last may fill that office.
      > However it seems that at this point in history that threat is
      > heightened. John Paul II was by most appearences a 'nice'
      > and 'peaceful' man. But he proccurred one thing for the Papacy
      which
      > exponentially increases its terror. No other pope had been as
      widely
      > traveled nor as broadly venerated by hoards of masses as had been
      > the most recent pope. JP2 superadded to the Papacy's 'universal
      > bishopric' a universal popularity. 'Everybody' loves the pope. If
      > ever there has been a time in which Romish prelate has had
      > opportunity to exercise universal tyrrany it is now. All it may
      take
      > is a man of charm and cunning to secure credulity and loyalty. We
      > MAY see, in my opinion, in this next 'successor of Peter' some of
      > the greatest deception and perhaps Papal violence that the world
      has
      > ever known. Kyrie Eleison.
      >
      >
      >
      > Jason
      >
      > --- In
      >
      covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "abusharmaranthkarimsuntha
      > harama" <abusharmaranthkarimsunthaharama@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Keith,
      > >
      > > What do we do now that there is no living "Pope?" Do you believe
      > > there is no AntiChrist now?
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com, "keith
      dotzler"
      > > <kdotz@e...> wrote:
      > > > Daniel,
      > > >
      > > > To elaborate further:
      > > >
      > > > 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for
      > that
      > > day [of Christ] shall not come, except there come a falling away
      > > first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
      > > >
      > > > 2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above
      all
      > > that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God
      > sitteth
      > > in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
      > > >
      > > > 2 Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet
      with
      > > you, I told you these things?
      > > >
      > > > 2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he
      > > might be revealed in his time.
      > > >
      > > > 2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already
      > > work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of
      > the
      > > way.
      > > >
      > > > 2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed,
      > whom
      > > the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall
      > > destroy with the brightness of his coming:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > To summarize the chronology of events,
      > > >
      > > > There will be an apostasy from the faith, from which the man
      of
      > > sin will rise.
      > > > This man of sin will oppose and exalt himself above God,
      sitting
      > > in the Temple of God (the Church), shewing himself to be God.
      > > > The Thessalonians knew what was withholding the rise of this
      man
      > > of sin, because Paul had told them orally.
      > > > Once the thing that was withholding was removed, the wicked
      man
      > of
      > > sin would be revealed.
      > > > This man of sin will be consumed with the Spirit of Christ's
      > > mouth, and will be destroyed at his coming.
      > > > Historically, we see that:
      > > > It was the Church at Rome that apostatized from Biblical
      > doctrine,
      > > allowing doctrines of demons to infect it, leading to the
      > ascendancy
      > > of its Bishops to a place of tyrannical power.
      > > > It was the Bishop of Rome who exalted himself above God,
      sitting
      > > in the visible Church (the Temple of God), claiming to be
      Christ's
      > > VICAR; nay, God himself (NOTE: the prefix anti means "in the
      place
      > > of," or "to oppose;" hence, the Bishop of Rome, by claiming to
      be
      > > Christ's "VICAR" (which also means "in the place of"), is
      readily
      > > identifying himself as the ANTI-Christ!).
      > > > It was the Roman Empire that restrained the rise of the Bishop
      > of
      > > Rome (Pope), because the two could not rule from Rome
      > > simultaneously. Once Constantine moved the seat of the Empire
      to
      > > Byzantium (creating Constantinople) in 333, and after
      persecuting
      > > Christians was outlawed via the Edict of Milan in 313, and after
      > the
      > > Bishop of Rome was "granted" sovereignty over the Latin and
      > Italian
      > > territories via the fictitious "Donation" of Constantine, and
      once
      > > the Roman Empire was divided into 10 kingdoms (ten toes) via
      > > Barbarian invasions in the late 5th century, the Bishop's rise
      to
      > > all-powerful supremacy became inevitable.
      > > > The saints throughout history recognized the mutation that
      > > occurred after the Empire was moved East, wherein the once
      humble
      > > pastors of the Church at Rome morphed into power-hungry,
      > tyrannical,
      > > idolatrous, murderous Popes. The early Church Fathers also knew
      > > that the man of sin would rise once the Empire fell, which is
      why
      > > they prayed for its continued existence.
      > > > Therefore, (A) as the "let" was the Roman Empire that
      was "taken
      > > out of the way" in 333 A.D.; and (B) as Christians for centuries
      > > have recognized the man of sin to be the Bishops who ascended
      the
      > > Roman throne after the Empire's removal; and (C) as the mark of
      > the
      > > beast, (D) the worshipping of the beast's image, (E) the
      murdering
      > > of the saints have all been going on for centuries; the
      consuming
      > > and destroying, then, with which the Beast and false prophet are
      > met
      > > at Christ's coming, cannot refer to just ONE Pope and ONE false
      > > prophet, nor to their soul-less "offices," but to the entire
      > > succession of men.
      > > >
      > > > "And the beast [a.k.a. man of sin, a.k.a. little horn, a.k.a.
      > the
      > > Antichrist] was taken, and with him the false prophet that
      wrought
      > > miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had
      received
      > > the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These
      > > both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."
      > > >
      > > > See also Daniel's interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar's image,
      > > wherein ONE represents MANY.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Keith
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: keith dotzler
      > > > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: 4/3/2005 12:32:09 AM
      > > > Subject: RE: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: Pope John Paul is
      dying
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Daniel,
      > > >
      > > > There are problems with your line of reasoning. For example:
      > > >
      > > > When you say,
      > > >
      > > > "This is clearly refering [sic] to one point in time in which
      > the
      > > PAPACY (as opposed to ALL THE POPES as if there were some
      > > resurection [sic] of them at that time) will fall into
      distruction
      > > [sic]..."
      > > >
      > > > ...are you willing to follow that thought to its logical
      > > conclusion, and tell us the forty-two months that the beast/man
      of
      > > sin/antichrist/little horn was prophesied to wear out the saints
      > and
      > > trample their blood under foot is, therefore, restricted to a
      > > literal 42 months, being the last 3 1/2 years before Christ's
      > > return?
      > > >
      > > > As I said in my first post in this thread, the OFFICE cannot
      be
      > > destroyed without destroying the office-HOLDERS. The men are
      cast
      > > into hell, not the office, which has no soul.
      > > >
      > > > Keith
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: Daniel
      > > > To: covenantedreformationclub@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: 4/2/2005 10:04:46 PM
      > > > Subject: [Covenanted Reformation] Re: Pope John Paul is dying
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Don't the biblical predictions of Antichrist refer to the
      office
      > > of
      > > > the Pope in such a way that John Paul the Second is the
      > Antichrist
      > > > inasmuch as he bears the office of pope?
      > > >
      > > > If the individual popes (as bad as they are) were the
      Antichrist
      > > then
      > > > each of them would have to have individually experienced God's
      > > > judgement predicted in Second Theselonians 2 which says that
      he
      > > will
      > > > be consumed by the spirit of His mouth and destroyed by the
      > > > brightness of His coming. This is clearly refering to one
      point
      > in
      > > > time in which the PAPACY (as opposed to ALL THE POPES as if
      > there
      > > > were some resurection of them at that time) will fall into
      > > > distruction before the worldwide millenial gospel peace which
      is
      > > > before Christ returns.
      > > >
      > > > It seems to me that he could reject his office. And this
      > wouldn't
      > > > mean that God's decree is failing since it is the papacy which
      > is
      > > the
      > > > Antichrist. It would be sinful on the other hand to pray for
      the
      > > > Papacy (the office) to turn into a calvinistic presbytery
      which
      > > > submits to scripture alone because the Anchrist which is
      > predicted
      > > to
      > > > fall is the Papacy and so it will never be righteous. And
      while
      > we
      > > > can pray for individual Roman Catholics to repent we cannot
      pray
      > > for
      > > > the Catholic Church to repent since it is the Great Whore.
      > > >
      > > > I am not denying the fact that all of the popes are evil and
      in
      > > there
      > > > popish state would end up in hell (unless they repent and die
      > > before
      > > > they had the chance to reject the office). I am also not
      denying
      > > the
      > > > fact that if the Pope did commit the blasphemy of the Holy
      Ghost
      > > (and
      > > > we can't put that past him) that he shouldn't be prayed for. I
      > > don't
      > > > know enough about this but could it be argued that the process
      > of
      > > > becoming a pope involves an action which would be blasphemy of
      > the
      > > > Holy Ghost?
      > > >
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