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RE: [cosmacelf] 1802 vs 1805/6

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  • Bob Armstrong
    Magnus, ... just in case Two things - * The 1805/6 doesn t have LOAD mode, so if you plan to use a traditional Popular Electronics Elf style lights and
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 26, 2010
      Magnus,

      >My question is, is there any idea to grab an 1805/06 instead of the 1802
      "just in case

      Two things -

      * The 1805/6 doesn't have LOAD mode, so if you plan to use a traditional
      Popular Electronics Elf style lights and switches "front panel" then you
      must have the 1802.

      * The 1805/6 does have some nice extra instructions, but AFAIK there's no
      software floating around out there for the 180x that uses them. So unless
      you're planning to write a lot of your own software, the extra opcodes are
      pointless.

      Bob Armstrong
    • Magnus
      Hello Bob! Thanks a lot for your answers. However there were so much more nice stuff in the list: CDP1851, 1852, 1853, 1856, 1857, 1858, 1859, 1861, 1867,
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 26, 2010
        Hello Bob!

        Thanks a lot for your answers. However there were so much more nice stuff in the list:
        CDP1851, 1852, 1853, 1856, 1857, 1858, 1859, 1861, 1867, 1868, 1870, 1871, 1872, 1877, 1879 and some more ...

        Magnus

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Bob Armstrong
        To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 4:31 PM
        Subject: RE: [cosmacelf] 1802 vs 1805/6



        Magnus,

        >My question is, is there any idea to grab an 1805/06 instead of the 1802
        "just in case

        Two things -

        * The 1805/6 doesn't have LOAD mode, so if you plan to use a traditional
        Popular Electronics Elf style lights and switches "front panel" then you
        must have the 1802.

        * The 1805/6 does have some nice extra instructions, but AFAIK there's no
        software floating around out there for the 180x that uses them. So unless
        you're planning to write a lot of your own software, the extra opcodes are
        pointless.

        Bob Armstrong





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Art G. Granzeier III
        Magnus, Nice find. The answer to your question is: (as usual) it depends. The 1805/6, as you mentioned, has more instructions and is a bit more powerful.
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 26, 2010
          Magnus,

          Nice find.

          The answer to your question is: (as usual) it depends. The 1805/6, as you
          mentioned, has more instructions and is a bit more powerful. However,
          what it is lacking is the Program Load mode built in to the processor. If
          you are running a system with a ROM startup routine, then the 1805 will
          work fine (it is fully object code compatible with the 1802), but if you
          are running a Classic Elf-class system with no ROM and the toggle switches
          to load your programs, then the 1805 will not work. This is mentioned in
          Spare Time Gizmo's Elf 2000 manual (pg. 2, the last bullet point under the
          Overview.)


          --
          Art G. Granzeier III
          President, Granzeier Consulting
          Helping to build a better engineer.


          1802 vs 1805/6
          Posted by: "Magnus" tubes@... soundbrigade
          Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:14 am (PDT)


          >Yo!
          >
          >I was looking for cheap (surplus) components at small components shop
          here >in Sweden when I spotted lots of COSMAC chips in the list. OF
          COURSE there >was the 1802, which I just bought on eBay ...but also
          1805/6. The latter >has some extra functions like internal
          timers/counters and extra >instruxctions.
          >My question is, is there any idea to grab an 1805/06 instead of the 1802
          >"just in case ..." or will the original 1802 do most (all) work
          brilliant >w/o the extra frills and laces?
          >
          >I'd be hoping to grab some latches/decoders and buffers as well as IC
          >sockets for wiring, something I cannot find just like that here in
          Sweden >any longer.
          >
          >/Magnus
        • Ray Sills
          Hi Art: Hmmm. That suggests that you could put an 1805 or 1806 into a VIP. The VIP has an OS in ROM, which is invoked when you hold down the hexpad key C
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 26, 2010
            Hi Art:

            Hmmm. That suggests that you could put an 1805 or 1806 into a VIP.
            The VIP has an "OS" in ROM, which is invoked when you hold down the
            hexpad key "C" when switching to RUN mode. Now the question becomes,
            would those extra instructions really be useful on the VIP platform?

            73 de Ray

            On Jun 26, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Art G. Granzeier III wrote:

            > Magnus,
            >
            > Nice find.
            >
            > The answer to your question is: (as usual) it depends. The 1805/6,
            > as you
            > mentioned, has more instructions and is a bit more powerful. However,
            > what it is lacking is the Program Load mode built in to the
            > processor. If
            > you are running a system with a ROM startup routine, then the 1805
            > will
            > work fine (it is fully object code compatible with the 1802), but if
            > you
            > are running a Classic Elf-class system with no ROM and the toggle
            > switches
            > to load your programs, then the 1805 will not work. This is
            > mentioned in
            > Spare Time Gizmo's Elf 2000 manual (pg. 2, the last bullet point
            > under the
            > Overview.)
            >
            >
            > --
            > Art G. Granzeier III
            > President, Granzeier Consulting
            > Helping to build a better engineer.
            >
            >
            > 1802 vs 1805/6
            > Posted by: "Magnus" tubes@... soundbrigade
            > Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:14 am (PDT)
            >
            >
            >> Yo!
            >>
            >> I was looking for cheap (surplus) components at small components shop
            > here >in Sweden when I spotted lots of COSMAC chips in the list. OF
            > COURSE there >was the 1802, which I just bought on eBay ...but also
            > 1805/6. The latter >has some extra functions like internal
            > timers/counters and extra >instruxctions.
            >> My question is, is there any idea to grab an 1805/06 instead of the
            >> 1802
            >> "just in case ..." or will the original 1802 do most (all) work
            > brilliant >w/o the extra frills and laces?
            >>
            >> I'd be hoping to grab some latches/decoders and buffers as well as IC
            >> sockets for wiring, something I cannot find just like that here in
            > Sweden >any longer.
            >>
            >> /Magnus
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > ========================================================
            > Visit the COSMAC ELF website at http://www.cosmacelf.comYahoo!
            > Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • Lee Hart
            ... The 1804/5/6 are slightly improved versions of the 1802. Depending on the particular model, they have internal ROM, RAM, a timer, and some new
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 26, 2010
              On 6/26/2010 2:14 AM, Magnus wrote:
              > Yo!
              >
              > I was looking for cheap (surplus) components at small components shop here in Sweden when I spotted lots of COSMAC chips in the list. OF COURSE there was the 1802, which I just bought on eBay ...but also 1805/6. The latter has some extra functions like internal timers/counters and extra instruxctions.
              > My question is, is there any idea to grab an 1805/06 instead of the 1802 "just in case ..." or will the original 1802 do most (all) work brilliant w/o the extra frills and laces?
              >
              > I'd be hoping to grab some latches/decoders and buffers as well as IC sockets for wiring, something I cannot find just like that here in Sweden any longer.

              The 1804/5/6 are slightly improved versions of the 1802. Depending on
              the particular model, they have internal ROM, RAM, a timer, and some new
              instructions. They were intended for single-chip microcontroller
              applications, where you ordered them with your program already in the
              internal ROM.

              Not much code was written to use the new instructions. The internal ROM
              is useless for general purpose applications; it is typically disabled so
              you can use it with external memory chips instead.

              The only thing missing in the 1804/5/6 that the 1802 has is the LOAD
              mode. Unfortunately, LOAD is used in the Elf computers for their front
              panel interface.

              I bought some 1805's on eBay for a good price. If you'd like to
              experiment, I'd be happy to swap one for an 1802.
              --
              Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
              814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
              Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
              leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
            • Richard
              Hello Magnus! Most of the 1800 series are a bit dated unless you want to build a computer completely retro . Among those you mentioned there also is the
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 29, 2010
                Hello Magnus!

                Most of the 1800 series are a bit dated unless you want to build a computer completely 'retro'.

                Among those you mentioned there also is the CDP1851. This one is a dual parallel IO port. Both ports can be configured for input, output, bidirectional and bit mode. I have seen that similar devices have been used to build IDE interfaces or to read input from a PS/2 keyboard or mouse. This one may be quite interesting.
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